Hornady LNL, to add a powder cop die (?)

[BostonBullit]

I'm planning on getting setup with a Hornady LNL AP, once the purchase gets approved by SWMBO, and I'd like to set it up with a Powder Cop die as a safety check. I swear I heard on a video review of this press that the stock setup a step broken out into seperate dies and that you need to change that to add the cop die; can anyone confirm? My shopping list (for .40SW) is the press, Hornady Custom-Grade Dimension Three-Die Pistol Set (.40), Hornady powder cop die, and a #10 shell plate. I'm newer than new to reloading so apologies if this is a stupid question; I can't seem to find the answer in the literature.

 

[EddieCoyle]

There are a couple of ways you can do this.

If you use powder-through expanders in your powder measure, you can set it up like this:

Station 1 - Sizing/decapping die
Station 2 - Powder measure w/expander
Station 3 - Powder Cop Die
Station 4 - Seating/crimping die
Station 5 - Empty, or use a separate crimp die

In the above scenario, you won't need to use the expander die that came with your set (because the expander is in the powder measure). If you don't use powder-through expanders, you can set it up like this:

Station 1 - Sizing/decapping die
Station 2 - Expander Die
Station 3 - Powder measure
Station 4 - Powder Cop Die
Station 5 - Seating/crimping die

I run an L-N-L, and do not use a Powder Cop die. I don't believe it is necessary for the .40 S&W. It's really hard to double-charge a case on the L-N-L because it auto-indexes, and you probably won't be able to seat a bullet on a double-charged .40 anyway.

Plus, it's easy enough to verify the powder charge by looking in the case as you place the bullet. You have to remember to look in the case, but you have to remember to look at the Powder Cop die too.

 

[Fixxah]

For straight wall pistol you can get an RCBS Lockout die. If using PTX it can be in station 3. I just bought one and plan on using it but have been loading lots of rifle lately.

 

[BostonBullit]

Thanks for the info guys!

since I'm just starting out I want to run every safety check I can which is the reason for the Cop even if .40 is hard to double load. I'll most likely be running the cop die, looking inside the case, and doing 7 other safety checks for the first few thousand rounds. I'll look at the RCBS as well.

 

[IDPA Mike]

For straight wall pistol you can get an RCBS Lockout die. If using PTX it can be in station 3. I just bought one and plan on using it but have been loading lots of rifle lately.

Just set mine up.
Don't ask me how it works, it just does.
I'm sure it cant feel minimal grain changes,but empty and double charges work like a charm.
I hope they have one for rifle .223 in my case

 

[R1ch]

I highly recommend the RCBS Lockout Die OVER the Hornady powder cop. I did a review, its here somewhere, just search for it.

Don't waste your money on the powder cop, but don't hesitate on the lock out die.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I highly recommend the RCBS Lockout Die OVER the Hornady powder cop. I did a review, its here somewhere, just search for it.

Don't waste your money on the powder cop, but don't hesitate on the lock out die.

Hey Rich... Let me ask you something (and I'm not being snarky).

You load on an L-N-L, right? Has your lockout/powder cop die ever caught something that you've missed? If so, what were the circumstances?

 

[R1ch]

Jim,

Yes the L-N-L, and the lock-out-die did, once or twice catch a situation for me.

I don't think the 'powder cop' would have helped at all, as it is dependant on you looking at it. If you don't look at it for every cartrige, it is useless (this is why I prefer the lock-out-die to the powder-cop or other visual 'indicating' dies). Since you have to look at the powder-cop, it's just as easy to look into the cartridge case youself before you place a bullet on it (howerver, I suppose you won't be able to look into the cartdridge case if you have one of the new bullet feeders).

One catch was when my powder throw had loosened up (loose hardware, my bad) and it didn't throw what it should have.

Another time I had a jam, I can't remember if it was with my primer slide, or with a bullet that slipped as I raised the RAM and bent a cartridge. In those two cases I would have probably caught the double powder as I always triple check things if everything isn't going smoothly.

So again, this was caused by operator error (moving the RAM arm in more than one smooth motion) because I was dealing with a feed issue of one kind or another.

I haven't had the lock-out-die (yet) catch a problem when all is going smoothly, probably because I always load a lot more powder in my powder throw than I will need for the current loading session (I tend to fill it to the same level each time). But if I was doing a large run, I could imagine that it would catch a low powder throw if I wasn't paying attention to the powder in the throw tube.

 

[R1ch]

By the way, here is the detailed 'review' I did on the difference between the lock-out-die and the powder-cop.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-lockout-die?p=1265010&viewfull=1#post1265010

 

[Jeff Holt]

RCBS LOCKOUT DIE any day over the Hornady Powder COP.

Take it from someone who loads commercially.

As Eddie C wrote- You have to watch the powder cop like you have to lookin the case anyways. You will find it is very easy to forget to look at the powder cop if you are loading a large amount of anything.
The RCBS lockout die will let you know if you either double charge or fail to charge a case. It is about as subtle as backing into a fire hydrant, so when you slam the ram and you can't seat your bullet- STOP - and look under your lockout die in Station #3. Over time and once you really get the feel for your press you'll encounter this situation with much less frequency and you will know just by the feel with out that god awful "slamming into" effect.

Remember also, the Hornady LNL is not without it's quirks and faults like any other press. DO NOT Force it.
Regards, Jeff

 

[DukeInFlorida]

Nice write up on the die, and how it works here:

http://ultimatereloader.com/2010/09/19/rcbs-lock-out-die-part-i-theory-of-operation/

My Dillon 550b already has all four stations full of goodies, and this die would require a 5th station.

I do careful statistical checks (more and more for the more and more important calibers.... example: 357 Sig, I weighed 100 powder dumps in a row, and then every 5th for another hundred, and then every 10th for another hundred, and then every 20th for another hundred. Only when I got less than .1 grain <actually, more like .01 grain) variation, statistically, did I proceed with just looking in the case before setting a bullet in place). That's a pretty good statistical sampling, all with a tight bell curve.

Obviously, it's more critical with poor metering powders.

Keep in mind that this lock out die doesn't confirm any exact weight of powder. You still have to do that separately. It only confirms that you don't have a squib or a double charge.

It would be nice if someone could come out with a sensor that would document each and every powder dump into the case. (Especially for guys like Jeff.)

The trickle dispensers like this one take 20 seconds to do one dispense:

 

[R1ch]

Thanks for pointing to this link of how the lockout die works. It does work well!

I think it would be a 'must have' if anyone added a bullet feeder.