Hope this dude doesn’t have a doggo

[amm5061]

Over 26" OAL makes it a "firearm", or some such shit. Isn't that how the dudes in CT get around the AR ban? That gay ass Tatter thing?

OAL of 26"+ makes it not concealable, and okay to put a VFG on. No AOW tax stamp needed. In this case, that looks like he's over 26" to me since that brace doesn't collapse or fold, so he's probably fine.

Under 26" OAL and it becomes an AOW if you slap a VFG on it, but if you use an angled fore grip, it's still a pistol and it's okay.

It becomes an SBR if you slap on a rifle stock.

Welcome to the NFA folks, where the rules are made up and none of it really matters anyway.

 

[In God We Trust]

Am I the only one that can't comprehend this thread? We need a glossary of acronyms for dummies like me.

AOL means all other weapons which is a legal definition I don’t completely understand. SBR is short barreled rifle (require a tax stamp from ATF)
VFG is vertical front grip which is illegal to put on any pistol. In this case the dudes rifle may have been converted in a way to make it legally considered a pistol

 

[amm5061]

AOL means all other weapons which is a legal definition I don’t completely understand. SBR is short barreled rifle (require a tax stamp from ATF)
VFG is vertical front grip which is illegal to put on any pistol. In this case the dudes rifle may have been converted in a way to make it legally considered a pistol

You cannot convert a rifle to make it a pistol. The ATF considers this the creation of an SBR and you need a tax stamp. You can convert an original pistol to a rifle without a problem, and then take it back to pistol configuration without straying into NFA territory, but it doesn't work with something that was 4473'd as a rifle.

You can also most certainly legally put a VFG on a pistol, but the OAL (Over All Length) must be greater than 26 inches with the brace collapsed (or possibly folded, that's another grey area).

AOWs are basically the bastard definition of something that's not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun under the established terms. Basically the NFA's catchall clause.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Dog. He could have an AOW stamp actually, although I’m guessing that is over 26 inches. Maybe his dog is safe.

I'm betting he just put an M4 butt on that thing and then swapped in an arm-brace b/c it looked cooler. "It's got velcro and S-word." I'm betting it's a rifle with a wrong stock. If he's not in mASS and many other states, it's not even an issue really. That's my thought anyhow. We get all mASSed up in here.

He is fine, he is doing the duck face.

My SIL's BIL would fit right in. Every pic on FB - Duck. He's, like, 33. Dude!

 

[amm5061]

I'm betting he just put an M4 butt on that thing and then swapped in an arm-brace b/c it looked cooler. "It's got velcro and S-word." I'm betting it's a rifle with a wrong stock. If he's not in mASS and many other states, it's not even an issue really. That's my thought anyhow. We get all mASSed up in here.

Nah, that looks like a 10-12" barrel. Definitely a pistol, and if he put a stock on it it would be an SBR. This is Federal NFA territory, not Mass bullshit, though it's already illegal here by virtue of being an "Assault Pistol."

 

[JRT]

You cannot convert a rifle to make it a pistol. The ATF considers this the creation of an SBR and you need a tax stamp. You can convert an original pistol to a rifle without a problem, and then take it back to pistol configuration without straying into NFA territory, but it doesn't work with something that was 4473'd as a rifle.

You can also most certainly legally put a VFG on a pistol, but the OAL (Over All Length) must be greater than 26 inches with the brace collapsed (or possibly folded, that's another grey area).

AOWs are basically the bastard definition of something that's not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun under the established terms. Basically the NFA's catchall clause.

I’m confident OAL is not a grey area any longer. Unless you consider ATF letters grey area, some believe letters are unenforceable as they are not written law. A recent ATF letter relating to stocks/braces stated you measure a pistol in its shortest configuration and an SBR in its longest. So a folding stock on a pistol would not be included in OAL for example. Let me see if I can find the letter.

 

[amm5061]

I’m confident OAL is not a grey area any longer. Unless you consider ATF letters grey area, some believe letters are unenforceable as they are not written law. A recent ATF letter relating to stocks/braces stated you measure a pistol in its shortest configuration and an SBR in its longest. So a folding stock on a pistol would not be included in OAL for example. Let me see if I can find the letter.

Oh, so they cleared that up finally? It was unclear last I saw if it applied to folding stocks as well as collapsible. Lots of CT people got hit with AOW tax stamp requirements thanks to that ruling change.

 

[JRT]

You cannot convert a rifle to make it a pistol. The ATF considers this the creation of an SBR and you need a tax stamp. You can convert an original pistol to a rifle without a problem, and then take it back to pistol configuration without straying into NFA territory, but it doesn't work with something that was 4473'd as a rifle.

You can also most certainly legally put a VFG on a pistol, but the OAL (Over All Length) must be greater than 26 inches with the brace collapsed (or possibly folded, that's another grey area).

AOWs are basically the bastard definition of something that's not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun under the established terms. Basically the NFA's catchall clause.

Here in PA Prince Law is generally regarded as gun law royalty. He offers his opinion on OAL and the letter is embedded.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

 

[JRT]

Lmao, I didn’t know they had an ND at the protest. The first ND I’ve seen where three shots were fired striking three of his comrades.

Louisville protests descend into chaos when armed protester accidentally shoots members of his group, injuring 3

Gunshots erupted during a planned protest in Louisville, Ky., Saturday and three members of the heavily armed militia group, the “Not F---ing Around Coalition” (NFAC), were injured by shots fired from one of their own member's guns, police told Fox News.

www.google.com

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

CT firearms dealers are forbidden to sell "assault weapons", (other than pre-ban and military/leo exceptions). A couple of companies are manufacturing "Others" to be legally sold in CT due to the way that the "assault weapon ban" was written. It's a pistol lower, (with an armbrace), and a vertical foregrip. That combination is neither a rifle, nor a pistol, it's an "other" - and AOW's aren't banned in CT.

CT4-2A OTHER FIREARM - DELTA LEVEL DEFENSE

DELTA LEVEL DEFENSE CT4-2A OTHER FIREARM

www.deltaleveldefense.com

Complete Firearms - Other - New Frontier Armory

www.newfrontierarmory.com

Hoffmans: Firearms, Ammunition, Indoor Gun Range, and Pistol Permits in Newington, Connecticut

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Did someone say AOW?

This is my buddy’s new build. I couldn’t post it on the ‘new acquisitions’ thread because it’s not my rifle!

‘Because of Connecticut’s stupid rules:
Pistol brace
All magpull accessories
16” 1 in 8 twist BCA upper
Some flip up iron sights I found online while waiting for a price break on a decent sight.
“Any Other Weapon.”’

 

[JRT]

Did someone say AOW?

This is my buddy’s new build. I couldn’t post it on the ‘new acquisitions’ thread because it’s not my rifle!

“Because of Connecticut’s stupid rules:
Pistol brace
All magpull accessories
16” 1 in 8 twist BCA upper
Some flip up iron sights I found online while waiting for a price break on a decent sight.
“Any Other Weapon”.”

If you have to pay the $200 to make an AOW why not use a short barrel?

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

If you have to pay the $200 to make an AOW why not use a short barrel?

I’m not sure I don’t know if he wanted to go the SBR route for his first build/maybe the BCA upper was more inexpensive?

 

[FiremanBob]

I don’t believe in using laws I think that shouldn’t exist only when it meets my agenda.

This. Debating the fine points of a regulation that should not exist is submission. A freedom-loving American doing it to criticize someone for not submitting has the scent of hypocrisy.

 

[amm5061]

If you have to pay the $200 to make an AOW why not use a short barrel?

It's only $5 to transfer an AOW though. That's why it's a thing in CT. People are buying them from FFLs in that configuration.

I see no benefit to building one, though. Might as well build a proper SBR.

 

[Mesatchornug]

If you have to pay the $200 to make an AOW why not use a short barrel?

per the Adam Kraut article you posted earlier, and the fact this object in question doesn't have a folding stock, isn't this a "firearm," thus circumventing NFA entirely?

 

[JRT]

per the Adam Kraut article you posted earlier, and the fact this object in question doesn't have a folding stock, isn't this a "firearm," thus circumventing NFA entirely?

When it comes to SBRs and silencers I’m pretty knowledgeable. AOW are a weird subset and I’m definitely not proficient. Here is my take, based on what I’m seeing that is an AOW by definition. It’s an AK based on the side mounted scope and the mag. If it’s an AK it doesn’t have a buffer tube so the brace is purely an accessory. By my understanding the brace would not included in the measurement making that an AOW or a pistol with a VFG which the ATF says is not cool. The measurement would be from the back of the receiver to the barrel crown and I don’t think that’s making > 26 inches.

Based on post above debating legalities of gun laws is submission and anti-American. It couldn’t be practical, appropriate or interesting since it’s a gun board, no it’s submission. Based on this autistic opinion please declare if you are submissive, anti-American or both.

 

[Mesatchornug]

When it comes to SBRs and silencers I’m pretty knowledgeable. AOW are a weird subset and I’m definitely not proficient. Here is my take, based on what I’m seeing that is an AOW by definition. It’s an AK based on the side mounted scope and the mag. If it’s an AK it doesn’t have a buffer tube so the brace is purely an accessory. By my understanding the brace would not included in the measurement making that an AOW or a pistol with a VFG which the ATF says is not cool. The measurement would be from the back of the receiver to the barrel crown and I don’t think that’s making > 26 inches.

Based on post above debating legalities of gun laws is submission and anti-American. It couldn’t be practical, appropriate or interesting since it’s a gun board, no it’s submission. Based on this autistic opinion please declare if you are submissive, anti-American or both.

I think we're taking different guns...i was going down the rabbit hole from post #40, which looks like an AR with a 16" barrel and pistol brace. Maybe my phone screen is too small?

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

^Two different guns

 

[JRT]

I think we're taking different guns...i was going down the rabbit hole from post #40, which looks like an AR with a 16" barrel and pistol brace. Maybe my phone screen is too small?

Ah, I misunderstood. I think that is a firearm as well. Assuming it’s not some internally buffered design like the BRN-180 that weapon is greater than 26 inches. I think that falls into a very specific category designed to get around some Connecticut f***ery. I called it an AOW because Rocco said it was and that may be the CT thing.

 

[amm5061]

Ah, I misunderstood. I think that is a firearm as well. Assuming it’s not some internally buffered design like the BRN-180 that weapon is greater than 26 inches. I think that falls into a very specific category designed to get around some Connecticut f***ery. I called it an AOW because Rocco said it was and that may be the CT thing.

Yeah, according to the Feds that's a pistol. Pistol brace and buffer tube make it so. It's clearly got an OAL > 26" so the vertical fore grip is fine and it does not stray into NFA territory.