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Home Invasion Hypothetical: What Would You Do?
- Thread starter LadySmith
- Start date
If you are surprised by an intruder I would suggest whatever defense you feel comfortable with. If you hear a breaking basement window or other indication that the house has been compromised I'd let the dogs investigate. A cornered and trapped intruder is just as dangerous as a cornered animal. Moreso if they are armed. Leaving the house may not be a good option. There could be more of them outside. The age or gender of an intruder doesn't matter. Anyone breaking into a home, occupied or not is prepared to do whatever it takes to prevent being caught. You don't know the intentions of the intruder. Assume the worst...it could be a SWAT TEAM at the wrong address. That could be the most dangerous scenario for you...and your dogs!
If you can get you and your loved ones to one room, you are one heck of a lot safer defending that one door (a fatal funnel) than you are trying to clear your house by yourself. Clearing a house by yourself is a great way to die. And while you are wandering around your house trying to get yourself killed, you aren't protecting your family any more.
Leaving an ensconced defense to go play hero isn't playing roulette -- it is more like playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in the gun.
Trust me, I get the concept. I was speaking more toward retreating and letting 5-0 deal with it...
If I can, I'll retreat to the master bedroom with the Mrs., aim at the closed door, call 911 and let 5-0 deal with it.
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This. No flowcharts, case law analysis, flipping a coin, magic 8 ball, mind reading, or other criteria should be needed to determine whether you have a right for self defense in your own home.
This has turned into a very informative and thoughtful discussion. Thank you all so much for contributing your good ideas. I've learned a few things, been inspired to make some changes and, so far, I feel confident that my "BOOM-BOOM-BOOM!!!" response would still be the appropriate one, regardless of the intruder's age.
TOO MUCH INFO TO DISCLOSE
If I caught a burgler in my basement at gun point I'd force them to do some cleaning and a few of the handyman project hanging around down there.
But seriously, if you're that concerned about going into your basement get a security system with zones and put it the control in a handy location. There are safety laws concerning bars on windows--not sure how they apply to your area or basement windows but often they require a latch of some sort. Also a solid door with good lock at the top of you stairs is always a good idea.
But seriously, if you're that concerned about going into your basement get a security system with zones and put it the control in a handy location. There are safety laws concerning bars on windows--not sure how they apply to your area or basement windows but often they require a latch of some sort. Also a solid door with good lock at the top of you stairs is always a good idea.
Bill Nance
Banned
911: "911 what is your emergency?"
Me: "There is an intruder in my house. I've gathered my family into the bedroom on the upper floor in the NE corner. I have a gun."
Do you think that the cavalry, hearing you have an intruder in your house and you have a gun and are probably going to shoot someone, isn't coming as fast as possible? More to the point, do you think it's safer for your family to go clear a house by yourself, leaving them alone or to stay with them defending a known specific entrance?
What defies logic is leaving a well defended, tactically superior position to try and clear a house, maybe in the dark, with unknown numbers of BGs by yourself unless you HAVE TO. Remember that I said first you have to gather everyone in one safe place. That probably already means you're clearing rooms simply to get to the kids. But having done so, it's a lot safer for THEM to grab them and retreat to the safe room or master BR, put everyone on the floor with you covering the door with an AR or shotgun.
This has nothing to do with your legal rights. I'm not even going there. This is about your safety and your family's safety.
In my state I can kill anyone who enters my domicile while I'm home with no questions asked and I STILL advise what I said earlier. It's not out of fear of the law, it's about not dying and not letting my family be alone and helpless while I'm exercising my Gonads trying to play commando in a situation where very well-trained cops wait for backup before attempting it. If my priority is keeping my family safe, and not testing out my manhood at the expense of my family's safety, staying put/retreating to a safe area is the way to go.
Think about it this way: What do you own that is more important than your life?
Let's say your house was on fire. You got everyone got out and the place was an inferno, then you remember that great-great-great Grandpa's Kentucky rifle was still in there. It's worth $20k and of immense sentimental value. If you go into the house, you can probably get it, but you're almost certainly going to die from injuries in the process. Are you going to get it? Probably not.
Let's say you realize your kid is in there. Are you going in? OF COURSE. Some things are worth dying for, others are definitely not. Clearing a house by yourself is one of the most dangerous things you can do. I can live with my pride being hurt. Getting shot and then having my now helpless family raped/killed because I was playing hero is not something I can live with.
I think the point is that there are many times where the safest thing for you and your family to do would be to sort of bunker down together while armed and wait for the police to come clear out the situation.
Personally, that is what I would do if possible. My take is that I don't want to confront some armed thugs downstairs because they hear me coming and they're waiting until I either round the corner or come into view and they're attacking me. Remember, you don't know how many there are, where they are, what type of weapons they have, etc.
I'll position myself with a firearm behind something big and heavy all day long and wait it out, but I'm not going to go and get myself ambushed unless there is a reason such as if the threat is between myself and my family.
The concept of hiding behind wooden doors, 2 layers of 1/2" sheetrock, and heavy objects is highly over rated. Try some test shots on those materials at the range sometime. Even an inch and a quarter of plywood flooring is little match for most caliber guns. The best strategy, though highly illegal and unethical, might be to shoot first and plant a scary weapon. Some suggest building a safe room but that only helps if you have time to get to it and lock yourself inside. That room needs to be constructed to deter entry and weaponfire. If it won't let a cell signal penetrate it could be a long lonely wait for help.
Thanks, this was pointed out to me & I've edited the post.
A properly installed alarm system has a battery backup in case of a power outage. Also the basement windows should be on a perimeter zone which activates the alarm instantly - only entry points with keypads are set up with a delay. Having said that I would never count on the police arriving in a timely manner, I would prepare to deal with the situation myself.
So, you're saying if a 15 year old rape victim escaped her attackers and slipped into the first safe place she could find... you're going to put her out of her misery?
What, if as others have stated, it's the swat team at the wrong house (or correct house based on wrong information)?
I'm just suggesting that you should actually identify the threat (and feel threatened) before BOOM-BOOM-BOOMing them out of existence. I understand your desire to build up your confidence and will to take a life in defense of yourself and your own, just don't let it pollute your thought process of threat identification.
I'm not saying you shouldn't feel empowered to defend yourself with lethal force in our own house (although Mass law is kind of weak). Your post just came across as, "garsh, there is someone in my basement therefore I fear for my life."
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THIS
I don't like games either in this situation
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Prepare, don't hesitate, It's your home
In God We Trust
NES Member
This. Bravado aside, I would rather let the cops deal with it than fight a murder charge. Nothing I own is worth the hassle.
The flip side of this is that I ALWAYS have a knife on my belt and a pistol in my pocket. In the yard, watching TV, out in town, whatever. I am ALWAYS armed and there have been many times I have investigated strange sounds in the house or yard at night. I am not "hunting intruders", just investigating a sound. If I found myself confronted with an intruder, who knows? If I am threatened, all bets are off.
Exactly.
The serial killer BTK was an experienced alarm installer; his victims got no electronic warning.
Hi LadySmith,
I own a Doberman Pinscher, and she barks whenever people approach our house, but I'm not using her as a security dog. I just don't want her to be shot or stabbed if someone will decide to break in. I'd rather be robbed of all my belonginess than to let my four-legged friend to be killed! So I use ADT security service, not only use, but have a "Protected by ADT" sign right in from of my house. It works much better than a dog. The only job a dog can do for house protection is to alert me and my husband about the danger.
To answer your question. First, if you think someone may get into your house through the basement windows, secure those windows and maybe install ADT system in the basement. Second. if I'd found an intruder in my house, I would respond according to his behavior, not his age. Is he trying to flee? I'd let him flee and call the police. Is he threatening me or my family members? Then I turn to self-defense, possibly using deadly force. It can be very hard to see the intruder's age, as you see him just briefly. He also may be wearing a mask and then you can't see his age for sure. So, for my safety, which I put first, I would see what does he do and not who is him.
Hope it was helpful.
I own a Doberman Pinscher, and she barks whenever people approach our house, but I'm not using her as a security dog. I just don't want her to be shot or stabbed if someone will decide to break in. I'd rather be robbed of all my belonginess than to let my four-legged friend to be killed! So I use ADT security service, not only use, but have a "Protected by ADT" sign right in from of my house. It works much better than a dog. The only job a dog can do for house protection is to alert me and my husband about the danger.
To answer your question. First, if you think someone may get into your house through the basement windows, secure those windows and maybe install ADT system in the basement. Second. if I'd found an intruder in my house, I would respond according to his behavior, not his age. Is he trying to flee? I'd let him flee and call the police. Is he threatening me or my family members? Then I turn to self-defense, possibly using deadly force. It can be very hard to see the intruder's age, as you see him just briefly. He also may be wearing a mask and then you can't see his age for sure. So, for my safety, which I put first, I would see what does he do and not who is him.
Hope it was helpful.
W
wolf223
i don't think anyone wants to have a bad day by breaking into my house. i often sit outside, smoke newports, watch the freak show (like now) w/o even carrying. i see a wierdo, i ask them (him) if they are waiting for the bus. beat feet, ect.
so if i threw two NY Strips at your pooches, would they bite me? would they accept me as their pack leader? maybe i can mix some antifreeze and hamburger meat.
there is no fail safe plan except yourself.
rule no. 1: cardio
OfficerObie59
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No single method is completely fail-proof--alarms, dogs, firearms, and your own health can all fail in high risk situations, though the risk of them all failing at once becomes exponentially less likely the more methods you have. The cops could get into cruiser crashes responding to the panic alarm. There's no telling what could go wrong. So to say an alarm or a dog is not a good idea is simply false--I think they're all a good idea, but the bad idea is relying on only one or two of the methods alone, to the exclusion of others, thinking it will save you.
Alarms are good for one's own warning letting you know the home has been breached, but as for response, bear in mind the hundreds of false alarms to the one real one means that the dispatcher is sending officers to that domestic disturbance down the street if the shift is short handed that day--and even if they can go, they're not breaking any land speed records. I've seen occasions where burglars have given Purina to the growling GSD and proceeded to ransack a home unencumbered. Firearms can malfunction and if you can say with absolute certainty how you'll react under such high stress without expeirienceing it before, you're either a liar or you're extremely naive.
No hypothetical can adequately describe or recreate every nuance and feeling that occurs in these events. If the person is in the basement, I might wait a few seconds at the top of the stairs before proceeding down to asses the threat. Some might disgree and argue that requires and immediate response, but it really depends. Can you descend your stairs with concealment of walls or do your stairs descend into an open basement? Do the door hinges creak loudly or quietly allowing you to make such an assessment silently?
With that said, I agree the very last line of defense when eveything else has either malfunctioned or been ineffective is you and you alone. Not the police, not your dog, not your alarm. And I'm in my home when someone who is armed invades the sanctity of my castle threatening my family with deadly force, I will defend it hell or high water--but will only effect the least amount of force necessary. While I agree it's indeed better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, I certainly don't do a helluva lot of good to my family if they can only visit me on Sundays from 1-3pm. Yeah, they're alive, but what kind of a life is that--for you and your family?
Do what you have to do, but only what you have to do.
[/rant]
Alarms are good for one's own warning letting you know the home has been breached, but as for response, bear in mind the hundreds of false alarms to the one real one means that the dispatcher is sending officers to that domestic disturbance down the street if the shift is short handed that day--and even if they can go, they're not breaking any land speed records. I've seen occasions where burglars have given Purina to the growling GSD and proceeded to ransack a home unencumbered. Firearms can malfunction and if you can say with absolute certainty how you'll react under such high stress without expeirienceing it before, you're either a liar or you're extremely naive.
No hypothetical can adequately describe or recreate every nuance and feeling that occurs in these events. If the person is in the basement, I might wait a few seconds at the top of the stairs before proceeding down to asses the threat. Some might disgree and argue that requires and immediate response, but it really depends. Can you descend your stairs with concealment of walls or do your stairs descend into an open basement? Do the door hinges creak loudly or quietly allowing you to make such an assessment silently?
With that said, I agree the very last line of defense when eveything else has either malfunctioned or been ineffective is you and you alone. Not the police, not your dog, not your alarm. And I'm in my home when someone who is armed invades the sanctity of my castle threatening my family with deadly force, I will defend it hell or high water--but will only effect the least amount of force necessary. While I agree it's indeed better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, I certainly don't do a helluva lot of good to my family if they can only visit me on Sundays from 1-3pm. Yeah, they're alive, but what kind of a life is that--for you and your family?
Do what you have to do, but only what you have to do.
[/rant]
namedpipes
NES Member
Two good pieces of advice.
paracarry
NES Member
There is a lot of good information in this thread and some not so good. each person and family should have a plan if an intruder enters their home, without it you could run into some serious problems. Know your limitations, practice scenarios, always let the police handle it if possible. P.S. as far as age I always ask for their ID before I shoot, I try to keep the age between 18 & 62, No need to shoot chidren and the elderly. Sorry had to throw that in.
W
wolf223
would you paint them with a lazer too? maybe ye'll 'FREEZE' ???
if someone enters my house uninvited, i hope i'm not home. i have two kids, i guess i'm trying to stick around for a little while.
Swampy, concealment may not be cover, but it sure beats leaving concealment and walking into an ambush.
Unless you expect to be personally targeted, how many attackers are going to be willing to fight their way through doors or walls to get at you?
I don't think the goal of holing up a bedroom with your family is to hold off an invasion force with ammunition resupply and heavy weapons; the goal is to delay four teenagers armed with machetes, to have all friendlies behind you so there's no risk to family when your bullets go through four layers of drywall. A safe room could also be helpful to avoid prosecution in a "duty to retreat" state, unless you live somwhere with an "illegal fortification" law.
My biggest worry with a safe room would be in the "four drugged out teens" scenario, that they get PO'd when they can't complete their plan to "murder anybody they find inside", and decide to burn the place to the ground.
Court Documents said:
(CabinetNews)
Definitely an argument in favor of having battery backups, including alarm and lighting, and a plan for reacting to power outages. In the Mont Vernon case, the house had an alarm system and they used it initially, then had the alarm disconnected after a malfunction.
OfficerObie59
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I'm gonna go with an 870 12ga loaded with Wincheser home defense slug/three 00 combo from the prone at the top of the staircase.
But that's me...
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