Home FFL In Massachusetts

[JCV]

This question isn't really regarding home FFL's but since you guys know what you're talking about I thought I'd ask here.

Let;s say you have an FFL in Woburn and want to open up another location in in Worcester, would you need additional licenses?
What if the second location is in another state? Does the FFL cover ALL locations and then each location needs their own state licenses?
How would this work if your second location was in another state? ie Walmart, Dicks, places like that.....?

 

[Tommy Gun]

You would need a FFL for each location.

 

[Paul455]

I had a home FFL from 1978 to 1980.

It is a hassle having customers come to the house.

Plus, you need to have top notch security.

I would not do it again.

 

[Acme.Armament]

You would need a FFL for each location.

^ That.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Plus, you need to have top notch security.

Even if you try to "go private", the FFL database is publicly available and anyone who can get any FFL's number (not hard) can download the entire database of FFL addresses.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Even if you try to "go private", the FFL database is publicly available and anyone who can get any FFL's number (not hard) can download the entire database of FFL addresses.

Rob,

You don't even need that much. I DL'd entire state lists to an Excel spreadsheet for states where I was vacationing so that perhaps I could hit a few places. You just need to find the right page on atf.gov and the link to do this.

Here you go:

http://www.atf.gov/content/contact-us/FOIA/listing-of-FFLs

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Rob,

You don't even need that much. I DL'd entire state lists to an Excel spreadsheet for states where I was vacationing so that perhaps I could hit a few places. You just need to find the right page on atf.gov and the link to do this.

Here you go:

http://www.atf.gov/content/contact-us/FOIA/listing-of-FFLs

Thanks. When I wrote code to download the entire FFL database on a daily basis, I needed one FFL# to be able to do so (this is much more convenient for automated systems that downloading each state individually). But, any state list would give you that.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks. When I wrote code to download the entire FFL database on a daily basis, I needed one FFL# to be able to do so (this is much more convenient for automated systems that downloading each state individually). But, any state list would give you that.

Rob, you are welcome! It took a bit of digging for me to find that link, but I bookmarked it and use it occasionally.

 

[fubar62172]

Hey Guys...Couple of questions for you... I have a small machine shop that I run part time out of my garage. I get all my work online and I have a tax id #.I'm getting more into gunsmithing and would like to get a ffl.Has any new info come out for ffls? What is the definition of "storefront" as far as the state is concerned?Thanks for any info

Mike

 

[JCV]

Hey Guys...Couple of questions for you... I have a small machine shop that I run part time out of my garage. I get all my work online and I have a tax id #.I'm getting more into gunsmithing and would like to get a ffl.Has any new info come out for ffls? What is the definition of "storefront" as far as the state is concerned?Thanks for any info

Mike

I believe from other readings that the state requires the property to be commercially zoned.
I could be wrong and someone else will chime in.

 

[warwickben]

I believe from other readings that the state requires the property to be commercially zoned.
I could be wrong and someone else will chime in.

There's ways to do it .
Retail is different then gun smithing . Retail out of home is possible but not as easy as others states.

I know a FFl in mass that can fully explain how to work with the system but I don't want to name drop. I'll shoot him a pm. He's responded in this thread.

There's different ways to go about it . It's doable in mass . 07 or gun smithing are easier todo . It's retail that causes problems with at home ffl's in this state.

 

[JCV]

But its the same FFL01 license needed for gun smithing or a retail shop, wouldn't the process and hoops be the same?
The only thing different would be at the state level when filling out applications. You wouldn't apply for a license to sell ammo, firearms, but only for gun smithing. The FFL should be a whole separate process......?

 

[warwickben]

But its the same FFL01 license needed for gun smithing or a retail shop, wouldn't the process and hoops be the same?
The only thing different would be at the state level when filling out applications. You wouldn't apply for a license to sell ammo, firearms, but only for gun smithing. The FFL should be a whole separate process......?

The state has some involvement with you getting approved for the ffl.
It's smarter to get a 07 then a 01 unless you just selling . 07 can do any thing a 01.

Technically a 01 couldn't buy a completed lower ar and attach a upper . The ATF views that as manufacturing . Few ffl's I trust have told me this.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

The state has some involvement with you getting approved for the ffl.
It's smarter to get a 07 then a 01 unless you just selling . 07 can do any thing a 01.

Technically a 01 couldn't buy a completed lower ar and attach a upper . The ATF views that as manufacturing . Few ffl's I trust have told me this.

If you have the courage, read the 200+ pages of the fed. regs. Bottom line, get the 07. Gunsmithing is a grey area and requires the license to do certain things. In Mass, you would get the 07 from the feds and your gunsmith, dealer and ammo licenses from the state via the PD. Jack.

 

[warwickben]

If you have the courage, read the 200+ pages of the fed. regs. Bottom line, get the 07. Gunsmithing is a grey area and requires the license to do certain things. In Mass, you would get the 07 from the feds and your gunsmith, dealer and ammo licenses from the state via the PD. Jack.

Yeah I got most of the way through it . I just decided I'm make my partner figure out the details and pick a few ffl's brains .

You got a closet for me yet lol .

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Yeah I got most of the way through it . I just decided I'm make my partner figure out the details and pick a few ffl's brains .

You got a closet for me yet lol .

Wish I did have more "closets". We are up to 8 07's in the empire, And I'm out of small spaces. On the plus side, the last 07 here (who is subletting from an existing FFL- I did not pass you by) had his license in hand in one month from application. Jack.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

But its the same FFL01 license needed for gun smithing or a retail shop, wouldn't the process and hoops be the same?
The only thing different would be at the state level when filling out applications. You wouldn't apply for a license to sell ammo, firearms, but only for gun smithing. The FFL should be a whole separate process......?

The process is the same for the FFL, however, you have to provide a business reason as the BATFE does not issue FFLs for the purpose of facilitating a personal hobby. The MA ban is on a home based state license to sell firearms.

You still need a MA license to do gunsmithing, and I think the home ban covers that as well.

There are two scenarios where one can qualify for an FFL by demonstrating a business need that does not also require a MA license to sell or gunsmith:

1. Seller only to other FFLS via mail/internet order (with appropriate signed copy of FFL from buyer requirement)

2. Photographer, gunwriter, or consultant to the firearms industry. This was specifically mentioned in a BATFE letter ruling when it changed the policy to remove the exclusion that allowed this sort of individual to receive guns, including handguns, without an FFL. The new policy requires a W2 regular employment relationship, rather than a 1099 or other consulting relationship because of the "closer supervision" that a W2 employment relationship entails. If you go this route, be prepared to prove it with letters from gun manufacturers or gun publications that will confirm they are using your services.

Regular employees of gun companies are still allowed to receive guns that remain "company property" via common carrier without use of an FFL intermediary.

 

[warwickben]

The process is the same for the FFL, however, you have to provide a business reason as the BATFE does not issue FFLs for the purpose of facilitating a personal hobby. The MA ban is on a home based state license to sell firearms.

You still need a MA license to do gunsmithing, and I think the home ban covers that as well.

There are two scenarios where one can qualify for an FFL by demonstrating a business need that does not also require a MA license to sell or gunsmith:

1. Seller only to other FFLS via mail/internet order (with appropriate signed copy of FFL from buyer requirement)

2. Photographer, gunwriter, or consultant to the firearms industry. This was specifically mentioned in a BATFE letter ruling when it changed the policy to remove the exclusion that allowed this sort of individual to receive guns, including handguns, without an FFL. The new policy requires a W2 regular employment relationship, rather than a 1099 or other consulting relationship because of the "closer supervision" that a W2 employment relationship entails. If you go this route, be prepared to prove it with letters from gun manufacturers or gun publications that will confirm they are using your services.

Regular employees of gun companies are still allowed to receive guns that remain "company property" via common carrier without use of an FFL intermediary.

2 questions .
If I under stand you , You could get a 07 build guns and use other ffl's to handle the transfers . Could you do gun smithing the same way . You setup a next work with dealers and they give you the guns to do smith work ?


What if you want the 07 to do r&d you design some thing then submit your ideas to the big companies to produce? Like what magpul dose in some ways .

 

[pochito413]

probably the wrong thread also but I have a good question. if someone were to get an engraving machine and decided they wanted to engrave things like dust covers and uppers but no lower receiver, would they need an ffl as they are "gun parts" but not firearms. what if they decided they wanted to engrave lower receivers as well. would this now require an ffl?

 

[Woda]

An FFL is required to build firearms.

What you're describing is cosmetic and in my opinion as long as you have an LTC (which allows you to posses gun parts in your state) you can engrave gun parts all day and night.

 

[warwickben]

An FFL is required to build firearms.

What you're describing is cosmetic and in my opinion as long as you have an LTC (which allows you to posses gun parts in your state) you can engrave gun parts all day and night.

You need to be careful how you do it .
From my understanding , if the owner of the firearm never leaves the shop it's legal with out a FFl. But if it's drop off and pick up later your basically a gun smith and new one .

 

[drgrant]

You need to be careful how you do it .
From my understanding , if the owner of the firearm never leaves the shop it's legal with out a FFl. But if it's drop off and pick up later your basically a gun smith and new one .

While according to the letter of the law this is true, it is not reality. Just ask the laser engraver guys that got threatened by the ATF for not having an FFL, despite the fact that the customer stays with the "firearm" while it's being worked on. Because no one challenges them on this shit they keep hurr durring and threatening people with arrest over it. Very similar to the bullshit where they intimidate pay range owners into keeping logs of range users.

-Mike

 

[iceberg8389]

Just wanted to add something to this thread, as i have seen it mentioned a few times. I just got my home-based FFL in RI, and my BATF agent told me there is no requirement to sell any guns to maintain your license. You could sell zero guns in a calendar year and the BATF could care less. As long as you follow all state & federal laws WHEN conducting business, that's all they care about. As a matter of FUN fact....an FFL could lose up to 3 guns and not lose it's license. The 4th violation will result in termination, but still no fine or charges. Let that sink in for a minute!!

 

[76Too]

Bringing this thread back from the dead...again.

What if someone is just taking in parts/pieces of firearms? I'm looking into starting a little side gig of reconditioning and refinishing firearms that are already owned by others. I would sub out some work for micro welding if need be, and would mainly be doing disassembly, solvent cleaning, sand blasting, refinishing (possibly parkerizing and cerakoting).

Would this be along the same lines of 'borrowing a gun' in MA since I wouldn't really be touching anything in the way of modifications to the actual operation of the firearms?

 

[milktree]

Bringing this thread back from the dead...again.

What if someone is just taking in parts/pieces of firearms? I'm looking into starting a little side gig of reconditioning and refinishing firearms that are already owned by others. I would sub out some work for micro welding if need be, and would mainly be doing disassembly, solvent cleaning, sand blasting, refinishing (possibly parkerizing and cerakoting).

Would this be along the same lines of 'borrowing a gun' in MA since I wouldn't really be touching anything in the way of modifications to the actual operation of the firearms?

Without a gunsmithling licence, you better not touch the frames for money.

 

[drgrant]

Bringing this thread back from the dead...again.

What if someone is just taking in parts/pieces of firearms? I'm looking into starting a little side gig of reconditioning and refinishing firearms that are already owned by others. I would sub out some work for micro welding if need be, and would mainly be doing disassembly, solvent cleaning, sand blasting, refinishing (possibly parkerizing and cerakoting).

Would this be along the same lines of 'borrowing a gun' in MA since I wouldn't really be touching anything in the way of modifications to the actual operation of the firearms?

You NEED an FFL to do this. No exceptions.

BATFE doesn't care even if the owner is standing right there. Even though its supposed to be legal, if they find out about it, and you have no license, you're f***ed.

That's why gunsmiths, etc, who don't have licenses will often operate "under" someone else's FFL.

There was a company that used to do laser engraving of guns around here. They had no FFL, but they were willing to work on your gun while you basically waited on premises. Some shithead at BATFE found out about it and they got threatened with an indictment or similar, they stopped touching guns altogether after that.

-Mike

 

[76Too]

Without a gunsmithling licence, you better not touch the frames for money.

is a gunsmithing license different than a dealers license?

I have ZERO interest in selling guns...in fact, I basically despise selling anything. That being said, I'm finding that my true passion in life is with firearms, and basically everything to do with them. I really think that if I want to enjoy my life's work I need to get into some aspect of the hobby by offering some sort of service.

I'd go to gunsmithing school, but they can be pretty basic and probably wouldn't learn much more than what I have with my own firearms building experience in the past 5 years.

 

[CrackPot]

is a gunsmithing license different than a dealers license?

I have ZERO interest in selling guns...in fact, I basically despise selling anything. That being said, I'm finding that my true passion in life is with firearms, and basically everything to do with them. I really think that if I want to enjoy my life's work I need to get into some aspect of the hobby by offering some sort of service.

I'd go to gunsmithing school, but they can be pretty basic and probably wouldn't learn much more than what I have with my own firearms building experience in the past 5 years.

Two answers to your question. You want a FFL 07 federally. This also allows you all the rights of an FFL 01 to sell but you will be ignoring that.

Second there are 3 different MA licenses. License to sell firearms, rifles, shotguns and machine guns; gunsmith; and license to sell ammo. It sounds like you will only get the single gunsmith license form the state.

BTW, if you get the first, that is the one that grants you the exemption from the AWB, magazine limits, etc. If you are going to the trouble of getting your FFL 07 and state gunsmith, pay the extra $100 every 3 years and get the dealer license so you can be exempt. BTW, if you get 2 state licenses, the 3rd is free, so get all three...

 

[76Too]

wow...all the information I was looking for in one post.

thank you very much sir!

i will say I find it very tough to swallow that MA offers a buy two get one free deal on gun licensing...lol...but i'll take it

if this ends up being something I'm good at to the point people will pay me to do it and can make a little money while enjoying my favorite hobby, I think it might be worth the trouble/expense.

 

[76Too]

You NEED an FFL to do this. No exceptions.

BATFE doesn't care even if the owner is standing right there. Even though its supposed to be legal, if they find out about it, and you have no license, you're f***ed.

That's why gunsmiths, etc, who don't have licenses will often operate "under" someone else's FFL.

There was a company that used to do laser engraving of guns around here. They had no FFL, but they were willing to work on your gun while you basically waited on premises. Some shithead at BATFE found out about it and they got threatened with an indictment or similar, they stopped touching guns altogether after that.

-Mike

that's just ridiculous. how is that any different than taking someone to the range and letting them shoot one of your firearms.

i'm not actually asking this question...it's just ludicrous that they set that double standard.