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Hodgdon HP-38 and Winchester 231 the same?

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OutdoorFanatic

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Getting ready to load some Speer 45 acp RN. Manual shows load info for W 231 but not HP-38. I heard Hodgdon bought Winchester and renamed 231 to HP-38 and yet I see some manuals listing both powders with different powder loads. (confusing)

Anybody know whats up with that?
 
I emailed Hodgon about this years ago, and got an email from someone named Hodgdon.

H110 == WW296
HS6 == WW540 (the later being discontinued)
HS7 == WW570 (the later being discontinued)

I did not ask about HP38, but numerous sources say is is in fact WW231.
 
Just checked the reloading data/recipes for both powders for a 230gr projectile. 100% identical information. Starting grains, max grains, pressures, velocities, all of it. So, even IF it's not 100% identical powder, it acts the same.

BTW, I LOVE W231 powder for .45 ACP...
 
Rob Boudrie said:
I emailed Hodgon about this years ago, and got an email from someone named Hodgdon.

H110 == WW296
HS6 == WW540 (the later being discontinued)
HS7 == WW570 (the later being discontinued)

I did not ask about HP38, but numerous sources say is is in fact WW231.
Click to expand...

Hodgdon shows HP-38 and W231 with 4.3 to 5.3 gn max.
Speer says W231 5.6 to 6.2 gn max.
 
Golddiggie said:
Just checked the reloading data/recipes for both powders for a 230gr projectile. 100% identical information. Starting grains, max grains, pressures, velocities, all of it. So, even IF it's not 100% identical powder, it acts the same.

BTW, I LOVE W231 powder for .45 ACP...
Click to expand...

thank you syrup nazi.

i also use w231 for for 185swc 200swc and 230rn...shit is like the coconut oil of powders, I use it for everything...well, pistol.
 
Golddiggie said:
Just checked the reloading data/recipes for both powders for a 230gr projectile. 100% identical information. Starting grains, max grains, pressures, velocities, all of it. So, even IF it's not 100% identical powder, it acts the same.

BTW, I LOVE W231 powder for .45 ACP...
Click to expand...

Yep, when I bought the HP 38 it was because I heard it was the same as 231. In fact that Hodgdon had renamed 231 to HP38. But now that I'm getting ready to load it and checking out info I see both listed on some bullet sites as if they were two totally different powders.
 
Also works for .357 Magnum loads. Plus more pistol rounds.

I also like having less powders for more calibers. It's nice when one powder can be used for several (or at least two) of the calibers I'll either be reloading, or am reloading.

BTW, coconut oil?? WTF dude?? EVOO FTW... [rofl2]
 
OutdoorFanatic said:
I have not answered my own question yet. Why does Speer show their lowest weight of 231 to be .3 gns higher than Hodgdons max load of HP38?
Click to expand...

Probably because Speer and Hodgdon are using different bullets? Might be the same weight but OAL’s could be different etc. Not to mention the primers used, brass used, gun used, barrel length, air temperature during testing etc could be different.
 
OutdoorFanatic said:
Hodgdon shows HP-38 and W231 with 4.3 to 5.3 gn max.
Speer says W231 5.6 to 6.2 gn max.
Click to expand...

Because you're comparing apples to oranges! This is why you need to read a reloading manual before you start or you're gonna hurt yourself or someone else.

The 4.3 to 5.3 grain load is for a LEAD ROUND NOSE bullet
The 5.6 to 6.2 grain load is for a JACKETED ROUND NOSE bullet

That's a big damn difference!!
 
jpm said:
Because you're comparing apples to oranges! This is why you need to read a reloading manual before you start or you're gonna hurt yourself or someone else.

The 4.3 to 5.3 grain load is for a LEAD ROUND NOSE bullet
The 5.6 to 6.2 grain load is for a JACKETED ROUND NOSE bullet

That's a big damn difference!!
Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing that out. According to the Hodgdon reloading data site the HP-38 powder loads for RNL and RN FMJ 230 grain are the same. 4.3-5.3 grns.
 
Last edited:
W231 and HP-38 are the same powder. Check the loads on the Hodgdon site in any caliber that lists these two powders and you will see they're the same.

Here are some of the reasons that the data can be different in different manuals:
Different bullet type/composition/manufacturer
Different bullet seating depth
Different test firearm
Different measuring equipment
Different primer brand or type
Different cases
Different lot of powder
Different firing conditions (temperature, humidity, etc)​
 
I have been using the tightgroup for a lot of 9 and 45 have had good results also use a little less than power pistol. about the same load as when I use 231.
 
tomp said:
I have been using the tightgroup for a lot of 9 and 45 have had good results also use a little less than power pistol. about the same load as when I use 231.
Click to expand...
Titegroup is a great power for fotay as well, though some connoisseurs insist that VV N320 is less dirty. Titegroup, and WW296/H110 (for magnum calibers) makes a great all around combination for handgun loads.
 
EddieCoyle said:
W231 and HP-38 are the same powder. Check the loads on the Hodgdon site in any caliber that lists these two powders and you will see they're the same.

Here are some of the reasons that the data can be different in different manuals:
Different bullet type/composition/manufacturer
Different bullet seating depth
Different test firearm
Different measuring equipment
Different primer brand or type
Different cases
Different lot of powder
Different firing conditions (temperature, humidity, etc)​
Click to expand...
I did and thank you! Figure as long as I stay on the light side of the curve I will be alright. I dont need a 1000fps 230 grain 45 for punching holes in paper anyway. Figure 700-800 will be fine.
Thanks again.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Titegroup is a great power for fotay as well, though some connoisseurs insist that VV N320 is less dirty. Titegroup, and WW296/H110 (for magnum calibers) makes a great all around combination for handgun loads.
Click to expand...

I read a lot of post from loaders who use and like tightgroup but as I go thru the list of powders there are so many that do the same job. I look for the cleanest burning ones and the ones that require less powder. Which is why I picked the HP-38. 4.3 to 5.3 gns and still up around 750-830 fps. A lot of others require 6-7 gns.
 
Hodgdon leases the rights to use the "Winchester Ball" label
Winchester Ball trade mark is owned by General Dynamics
General dynamics has a plant in Florida and Canada and probably owns others somewhere they are joined with ATK also in some capacity and are in the Radford VA plant
Hodgdon as far as I can tell does not manufacture any powder except goex black powder since they bought the company?

To even start to know if they are the same or close look to where the powder was made on the bottle.
There is very little powder made state side and the 2 powder plants are owned by the US army and leased out to manufactures.

Hodgedon has slowly dropped some of the powders under the Winchester name. Down to 5 now. This could be because of what GEneral Dynamics is producing or way for hodgdon to slowly step away from the "winchester" brand.???
 
I like titegroup over 231 for my 45 loads. I found it to be cleaner and more accurate for my 200gr plated loads.
 

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