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HK USC in 45ACP or CZ Scorpion Carbine 9mm...

mav

mav

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I have a hankering for a pistol caliber carbine with an eye towards an SBR in the near future. Pros/cons? Which would you rather have? Experience shooting either/both? Not sure if I would convert the USC to a UMP, but it's possible. I also know the UMP conversion is expensive (relatively). Let me here your thoughts.
 
Only have experience with the Scorpion. It is a nice, soft shooter. Very accurate. Note that I removed the faux suppressor shroud and installed a muzzle brake even though not needed and yet it made it even softer. My faux suppressor was only blue loctited on so make sure which ever model you get -- the one with the brake or the one with the faux suppressor -- you ensure that the brake is either welded/pinned or silver soldered if you are in MA.
 
I have both as well as a Mp5. Id personally rank them.
#1: MP5 by far, delayed roller lock makes it feel like shooting a .22lr
#2: USC, not really any more recoil than the scorpion. Plus 45acp
#3: Scorpion, I had high hopes and bought this before the other two. Slightly disappointed with the recoil for a 9mm carbine and the trigger, grip and safety selector suck from factory. It does look cool though.
 
rcwhat said:
I have both as well as a Mp5. Id personally rank them.
#1: MP5 by far, delayed roller lock makes it feel like shooting a .22lr
#2: USC, not really any more recoil than the scorpion. Plus 45acp
#3: Scorpion, I had high hopes and bought this before the other two. Slightly disappointed with the recoil for a 9mm carbine and the trigger, grip and safety selector suck from factory. It does look cool though.
Click to expand...

That roller lock is king, isn't it?!? I was kind of shocked with my recent straight blowback AR9 build at the recoil. Wasn't unmanageable at all, but still a bit of a shock after firing an MP5 clone for a while. I've been spoiled. I'd love to get my hands on a Banshee or an MDP-9, both of which have some form of delayed blowback.
 
rcwhat said:
I have both as well as a Mp5. Id personally rank them.
#1: MP5 by far, delayed roller lock makes it feel like shooting a .22lr
#2: USC, not really any more recoil than the scorpion. Plus 45acp
#3: Scorpion, I had high hopes and bought this before the other two. Slightly disappointed with the recoil for a 9mm carbine and the trigger, grip and safety selector suck from factory. It does look cool though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the ranking. For the Scorpion, do you think aftermarket upgrades like MOE Magpul grip and Magpul magazine release, aftermarket safety like the Apex Tactical would improve it? One of the reasons I'm leaning towards the Scorpion is the availability of aftermarket parts. Had to tweak my Tavor with aftermarket parts, especially the trigger, to get it comfortable. I figure it would be similar with the CZ. I have heard there isn't much you can do with the trigger on the USC/UMP and there doesn't seem to be much market for customization like there is with AR's and brands like CZ.
 
mav said:
Thanks for the ranking. For the Scorpion, do you think aftermarket upgrades like MOE Magpul grip and Magpul magazine release, aftermarket safety like the Apex Tactical would improve it? One of the reasons I'm leaning towards the Scorpion is the availability of aftermarket parts. Had to tweak my Tavor with aftermarket parts, especially the trigger, to get it comfortable. I figure it would be similar with the CZ. I have heard there isn't much you can do with the trigger on the USC/UMP and there doesn't seem to be much market for customization like there is with AR's and brands like CZ.
Click to expand...

CZ Scorpion really exploded in after market parts for sure, it makes improving the Scorpion easy and fun.
For UMP/USC customization HKPARTS is pretty much the spot.

HKPARTS - HOME

hkparts.net hkparts.net
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
That roller lock is king, isn't it?!? I was kind of shocked with my recent straight blowback AR9 build at the recoil. Wasn't unmanageable at all, but still a bit of a shock after firing an MP5 clone for a while. I've been spoiled. I'd love to get my hands on a Banshee or an MDP-9, both of which have some form of delayed blowback.
Click to expand...

I really had to beef up the buffer on my ar9 due to that recoil. I was shocked as well but it’s very smooth now.
 
I carried an MP5SD for years, obv a great weapon but after 8-12-16 hour days on end with 30lbs of personal gear and armor it would feel like I was slinging an M60 on my shoulder by the end of the day.

Swapped it out later on for a UMP.45 and made a big difference just in weight and comfort, plus a much harder hitting round.

No experience with a Scorpion, but for anything close up I’d take the .45 all day long.
 
cams said:
I carried an MP5SD for years, obv a great weapon but after 8-12-16 hour days on end with 30lbs of personal gear and armor it would feel like I was slinging an M60 on my shoulder by the end of the day.

Swapped it out later on for a UMP.45 and made a big difference just in weight and comfort, plus a much harder hitting round.

No experience with a Scorpion, but for anything close up I’d take the .45 all day long.
Click to expand...

Now that you mention it, the MP5 isn't exactly a light weight considering its relatively compact size. Weighs as much as an AR, which seems odd when you think "subgun", and that's before you put stuff on it. Makes complete sense that lugging that in battle kit would take its toll.
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
Now that you mention it, the MP5 isn't exactly a light weight considering its relatively compact size. Weighs as much as an AR, which seems odd when you think "subgun", and that's before you put stuff on it. Makes complete sense that lugging that in battle kit would take its toll.
Click to expand...

Built like a tank, but yes, may as well have a concrete block hanging off your neck all day. Plus, it’s basically useless against any kind of cover. Pilots and air crews used to use them and hated them, called them the damn pea shooter when up against AK’s and bigger.

One bad thing about slinging the UMP, is the straight 25rd mag, it sits in the perfect position to always smack you right in the balls when you’re walking. lol
 
LittleCalm said:
Only have experience with the Scorpion. It is a nice, soft shooter. Very accurate. Note that I removed the faux suppressor shroud and installed a muzzle brake even though not needed and yet it made it even softer. My faux suppressor was only blue loctited on so make sure which ever model you get -- the one with the brake or the one with the faux suppressor -- you ensure that the brake is either welded/pinned or silver soldered if you are in MA.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you want that done right go to NE Arms in Peabody.
 
Just a PSA for MA residents who are locked out of purchasing from dealers (in MA) right now:

Just got back from D&L Shooting Supply in Warwick, RI. They have a literal crap-ton of CZ inventory. Brens, Scorpions, etc. Decent enough prices, though you'll have to get carbines Massified at a gun smith. I apologize to the MA dealers I normally frequent, but the Governor and AG of MA have drawn a line in the sand and I'm not going to stop them from exercising my 2nd Amendment rights.

Anyway, picked up an FDE CZ Scorpion carbine. Price was decent and they'll ship it right to the gun smith, who will transfer it to your MA dealer when ready. Thanks for those who posted above. I really wanted to like the USC/UMP, but I don't want to spend the money or time on the conversion. Easier and cheaper to SBR the Scorpion.

As an aside, D&L has 25 Barret M82 .50 cals in stock and for sale in the $7k range (no optic). Maybe this will be the next purchase as it's on my list...
 
mav said:
Just a PSA for MA residents who are locked out of purchasing from dealers (in MA) right now:

Just got back from D&L Shooting Supply in Warwick, RI. They have a literal crap-ton of CZ inventory. Brens, Scorpions, etc. Decent enough prices, though you'll have to get carbines Massified at a gun smith. I apologize to the MA dealers I normally frequent, but the Governor and AG of MA have drawn a line in the sand and I'm not going to stop them from exercising my 2nd Amendment rights.

Anyway, picked up an FDE CZ Scorpion carbine. Price was decent and they'll ship it right to the gun smith, who will transfer it to your MA dealer when ready. Thanks for those who posted above. I really wanted to like the USC/UMP, but I don't want to spend the money or time on the conversion. Easier and cheaper to SBR the Scorpion.

As an aside, D&L has 25 Barret M82 .50 cals in stock and for sale in the $7k range (no optic). Maybe this will be the next purchase as it's on my list...
Click to expand...

Bren 2 carbine? :) Thanks for the info. Don't have the cash nor the time to drive to RI but good to hear of a MA-friendly dealer down there.
 
The Bren's are nice, but I already have a S&W AR and a Tavor and don't need any more 5.56 platforms right now. I think they were in the $1900 range price-wise...

If I had to choose, it would be a tough choice between a Bren, Scar 16, an LWRC or HK piston AR.
 
Just picked up a CZ Scorpion carbine. Need to get it to the range to zero and get a feel for it. Have pleny of experience with M4's and LMG's in the military, zero experience with PDW-caliber weapons like the Scorpion. Any advice on zero distance? I'm thinking 50 yard zero, but not too familiar with the balistic characteristics of 9mm. I would expect the longest range target I would shoot is 100 yards, with 25-50 yards being the norm, especially with the short site radius. It will be set up for "home defense" as well, once I have my tax stamp and paperwork to SBR. This will likely never shoot suppressed as I live in the People's Republic and the Queen doesn't approve of suppressors.

IMG_1363.jpg
CZ Scorpion EVO3 16" carbine
HKParts AR stock adapter
BCM M4 Buffer Tube
Magpul CTR Stock & AK Cheek Riser
Magpul Scorpion MOE pistol grip
Magpul Paddle Mag Release
Magpul MLOK Picatinny Rails x 3
HB Industries Trigger & Spring Kit
HB Industries AK-style Safety and Safety Delete
HB Industries Charging Handle
HB Industries Pistol-length MLOK Handguard
Troy HK-style BUIS
TangoDown VFG
 
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I have 2 9mm carbines and would love to add the HK 45ACP model to the collection. There’s one for sale here but it’s too rich for my blood right now.
 
I have an SP89 and adore it, but HK isn't exactly known for their customer service. I've never used CZ customer service, so can't weigh in on that. Just something to keep in mind.
 
Did a field strip and quick cleaning of the CZ last night. No joke, the easiest firearm I have ever stripped. One push pin and a tug and it’s apart. I’m digging this thing already.
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
Now that you mention it, the MP5 isn't exactly a light weight considering its relatively compact size. Weighs as much as an AR, which seems odd when you think "subgun", and that's before you put stuff on it. Makes complete sense that lugging that in battle kit would take its toll.
Click to expand...
MP5 likely weighs more than a lot of lightweight ARs do.

-Mike
 

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