Hints for Gunshop Owners

[Shepherd]

Cash Discounts are 100% legal as long as the retailer abides by certain rules. Play close attention to paragraph B


PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT


TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER


CHAPTER 140D. CONSUMER CREDIT COST DISCLOSURE


Chapter 140D: Section 28A. Cardholder discounts; surcharges; finance charge


Section 28A. (a)(1) With respect to a credit card which may be used for extensions of credit in sales transactions in which the seller is a person other than the card issuer, the card issuer may not, by contract or otherwise, prohibit any such seller from offering a discount to a cardholder to induce the cardholder to pay cash, check or similar means rather than use a credit card.

(2) No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check or similar means.

(b) With respect to any sales transaction, any discount from the regular price offered by the seller for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check or other means not involving the use of an open-end-credit plan or a credit card shall not constitute a finance charge under section four if such discount is offered to all prospective buyers and its availability is disclosed clearly and conspicuously.

 

[Mikey]

So in otherwords it is a law that says no you can not do something and then in the next paragraph it says yes you can. Why even make the GD law. Stupid PRM!

 

[Lynne]

So in otherwords it is a law that says no you can not do something and then in the next paragraph it says yes you can. Why even make the GD law. Stupid PRM!

While I agree on the stupid PRM, Mike, read it again. It says you can't add a surcharge for using the cc, but you can offer an incentive to pay with cash or check.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Lynne, Mike's not wrong . . . the effect is the same.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

While I agree on the stupid PRM, Mike, read it again. It says you can't add a surcharge for using the cc, but you can offer an incentive to pay with cash or check.

What it means is that you can't place an ad stating a price, include the MC/Visa logo, and surprise customers with "CC surcharge" when they show up to make a purchase. This is similar to laws that regulate the size of the font describing the required purchase when advertising some that is "free" but only if accompanied by a purchase (oxymoron alert).

New guns are a low margin item. A shop like FS probably does about 10% +/- a little bit, so the credit card charge coule easily eat up 20% of the profit margin. The gun business is unusual - highly competitive, and customers don't have a hard time learning the dealer price list (Just try getting a true stocking dealer price list on brand name bicycles, plasma TVs, or jewelery - it's not going to happen unless you're in the trade). Margins on most consumer products are WAY over 10% and the extra business the CCs bring in makes the 2% a smart business move.

If MA banned both surcharges or discounts, we'd see wither slightly higher new gun prices or no credit cards accepted on these items.

It also says something for Carl's clientele that he'd rather take an uncleared check than guaranteed cash at 98% of face value via CC. Many business that take CC's would rather [ay the 2% than trust their customers.

 

[EddieCoyle]

It also says something for Carl's clientele that he'd rather take an uncleared check than guaranteed cash at 98% of face value via CC. Many business that take CC's would rather [ay the 2% than trust their customers.

He may be trusting but he's not stupid. I've seen him call the cops when a check bounces (he didn't call them on me, I was in the store BSing with him once when he made a call). He calls the cops in the town where the check-kiter lives. From what he tells me, they go and get the gun.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

He may be trusting but he's not stupid. I've seen him call the cops when a check bounces (he didn't call them on me, I was in the store BSing with him once when he made a call). He calls the cops in the town where the check-kiter lives. From what he tells me, they go and get the gun.

Slick. I didn't think of that one.

Bouncing checks and refusing to make them good is not like being unable to pay a credit debt as the former is criminal if you don't make good rather quickly. Las Vegas casinos even manage to have people extradited for this from time to time.

 

[Mikey]

I understand what the laws says and what the intent is, I just think it is meaningless.

The law could have been much clearer if it just stated that any difference in price must be provided to the consumer up front. Which is what FS does on their website. Then it would be your choice to buy from them or go to another dealer.

All the dealers I have used out here in western mass seem to make no distinction between cash and CC, and yes CC have made their way out here.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

All the dealers I have used out here in western mass seem to make no distinction between cash and CC, and yes CC have made their way out here.

It would be interesting to see a price comparison between the western MA dealers and FS on several common models of new guns.

 

[Len-2A Training]

There is NO free lunch! We all pay for credit card company charges when we buy goods, it's built into the price.

Some thoughts to ponder:

- When you go into Wal-Mart, Target, Kohl's, Applebees, Jillian's, etc. The price is the same for payment by credit card, check or green cash. Everyone pays the up-charge!

- Every merchant credit card agreement requires either software, hardware or both. The cost to the merchant is ~$300-900 for the equipment. They all charge ~2% + $0.27/charge slip + monthly fee (usually $20-30). Amex charges more, so let's say ~3% for them.

- Some gun shops have higher prices to all, and they absorb the credit card fees/expenses as a way of doing business . . . but everyone pays for it.

- Some gun shops work on thinner margins and higher volume. Absorbing the credit card fees/expenses would severely impact their viability to stay in business. So, they offer a "cash discount" (legal per MGL and cc company agreements). You get to choose how to pay, the merchant offers good pricing to all (but better to those with cash). That merchant will still be in business 10 year later. Sounds like a win-win situation to me!

We want the CHOICE of CCW if we want to (LTC-A/ALP), we want the CHOICE of any gun in the marketplace (bogus testing/AG Regs), so why wouldn't we want the CHOICE of how to pay and how deep a discount we get for buying goods??

All this is predicated on the merchant making it crystal clear up-front what our choices and costs are for making those choices.

 

[Mikey]

It would be interesting to see a price comparison between the western MA dealers and FS on several common models of new guns.

The Ware Gun Shop has always matched FS on everything that I have got there (even lower sometimes), Tombstone where I do most of my business is usually about $10 to $20 more depending on what gun, but that is worth it for a great shop and not having to drive to Woburn.

By the way Tombstone from what I see has great ammo prices.

 

[EddieCoyle]

It would be interesting to see a price comparison between the western MA dealers and FS on several common models of new guns.

Good point. For example, I bought a brand new S&W .460 XVR from FS for $799 cash. I'd challenge anyone to find an equal or better deal where the same item can be paid for with a CC.

 

[dvajda]

There are other things that gun stores can do. Like there should be some sort of face recognition or familiarity going on. I love it when I walk into a store and I know they remember me on some level. If they ask me about something I bought there a month ago, like "how is that working out for you," then I am totally sold on that place. That means they are paying attention to their customers and care. Or if you are just standing around and one of them goes "hey we have some surplus .308, I know have that M1A right?" that is a huge thing.

Also, I think good stores know this, but many don't: just because I don't buy any firearms in your store doesn't mean I don't drop a ton of money there. I have been looking at my yearly spending, and I find that while I don't usually buy firearms at this certain store, I drop more money on ammo and supplies there than I do anywhere else even with firearms purchases. The ammo adds up, weekly and monthly. I can tell when some stores just want me to purchase large items, and if i buy a few boxes of ammo they don't take note. But other places (like FS) notice that I'm constantly buying ammo and supplies there every month. Keeps me coming back. And if I'm in the store buying ammo, you never know when something interesting will catch my eye and I may just get myself a present...

 

[MassQuatch]

The thing I hate the most? "The Sigh" Ever ask a clerk to look at something and they give you that heavy sigh? I had that experience a few times at the Ware gun shop. I was the only guy there and was looking for a new piece of cutlery so I asked to see a couple of them. Each time I asked to look at one I got "The Sigh"
I also hate when the regulars can do what they want, but the owners act your a criminal when your in there.
Again, the Ware gun shop. I'm in there looking in one of the cases, a guy and his kid come in and start wandering around. Eventually the kid was standing right next to me, he pulls a Mossberg pump off a rack on the counter and proceeds to rack it about 10 times, each time looking at me and saying "Wow this is a nice gun." RACK "Wow this is a nice gun" RACK
Not that I would have minded so much but after the first 3 or 4 times, he's pointing the gun right in my face. So, being the dick that I can be, I say to the father "Havent you ever taught the kid not to point guns at people loaded or not?"
Now I know the owner knew the guy cause he called him by name when he came in. What would have happened if I had picked up that gun and started slamming away at it?

 

[Adam_MA]

What would have happened if I had picked up that gun and started slamming away at it?

You should have picked one up and done the same thing he was. You know just start copying every move he makes and word he speaks! Then, when he got upset, just laugh at him!

 

[MassQuatch]

I might try that next time Adam.

 

[tele_mark]

And don't forget to follow up every rack of the pump with a maniacal laugh and uncontrollable shaking.

 

[BDDonovan]

Price Jump in 2 hrs

Just yesterday I called a shop Ive never been too, to see if they had any Glocks.they had a few so I asked the start price $ 540.00.

two hours later me and a friend drove over and the price jumped to $750.

The owner was very socialable and semed really knowladgeable.

but a $210.00 price hike in 2 hours? Is that common?

 

[dwarven1]

Maybe they sold the $540 Glock?

 

[BDDonovan]

could be.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Did you ask for an explanation?

I would have!

 

[FalArAk]

Just yesterday I called a shop Ive never been too, to see if they had any Glocks.they had a few so I asked the start price $ 540.00.

two hours later me and a friend drove over and the price jumped to $750.

The owner was very socialable and semed really knowladgeable.

but a $210.00 price hike in 2 hours? Is that common?

'Start' would be the operative word.

Sounds to me like the 'start' price for a Glock is $540(full size) and the one you were interested in was a compact,which are artificially inflated due to MA laws.

 

[Mr Weebles]

Here's some more free advice for gun shop owners:

You know your buddy who hangs out at your shop all day? The guy who looks kind of shady and has no obvious means of support? Yeah, that one ... the adult male with the ponytail and bad hygiene or perhaps the "Vietnam Vet" hat (although he's maybe 46 years old at best).

Well, when I go in to spend my hard-earned money, please be a lamb and ask him to not stand three feet away from me with his arms folded and stare at me, and then follow me around the shop as if I'm gonna steal something. Oh, and one more thing; it would be just super-duper if that guy could perhaps ... just maybe ... not snort out loud if I ask a question as if I should know better or correct everything I say even when I'm correct.

I hope this isn't a bother and I'm only asking because I've dropped several thousand at your shop in the last six months. That's not all the money in the world but it ain't peanuts either.

Thanks in advance!

 

[EddieCoyle]

... the adult male with the ponytail and bad hygiene or perhaps the "Vietnam Vet" hat (although he's maybe 46 years old at best).

If you're talking about State Line, he's their gunsmith.

 

[Mr Weebles]

If you're talking about State Line, he's their gunsmith.

Nope, not State Line. This was in NH and I'm not even sure the guy is even an employee. He's more of a friend/helper, I think.

 

[bfm]

group you ammo in a way that makes sense. By brand or caliber, I don't care, but have some form of system.

I would prefer by caliber when I am price shopping to make comparisons easier, but by brand is fine too as all the Gold Dots will be in one place etc. To have to go to 4 different parts of the store to see what you have for 9mm FMJ is a bit much though.

 

[JAMMIN]

Hang out at Four Seasons on a Saturday morning to see how it's supposed to be done....

+1 for Four Seasons and if your ever in Brookfield try Tombstone, it's the way a shop should be and what we all expect. The owner just does it as a hobby cause he knows all the shit that we go through.

 

[TonyDedo]

I know this thread is older than dirt, but an experience the other night made me think of it.

Called Collector's in Stoneham at 5:35 to ask if they had .308 in stock. Guy says "yes, we have X and I think Y." "Can you tell me how much it is?" I asked. "We're closed," came the reply. "So you can't walk 10 feet and check the price for me?" "Nope." CLICK

WTF? If you're closed, don't pick up the phone. If you're going to pick up the phone, how big of a deal is it to take the 30 seconds to answer my question? I was probably going to walk into your shop tomorrow and spent a few hundred dollars on ammo - is that worth 30 seconds of your time?

 

[Mikey]

That's messed up, definitely don't spend your money there.

 

[GrendelKhan]

On the other hand...

I dropped by Collector's on a Saturday a month or 2 ago, just AFTER they closed. It was my first time there and I wanted to see all the old guns, so I was disappointed that the door was locked. One of the guys inside saw me thru the door, came out, and asked if I was looking for something specific. I explained that it was my first time there, and only wanted to look around, but in spite of that he invited me in, and I took a quick look. I thanked them, and told him I'd be back. I went back the next Saturday and bought a Sig P226. They were pretty busy, but after a short wait they took pretty good care of me.

No single interaction defines a shop. From what I can tell, Collector's seems like a great shop. I'll definitely go back. They all seem like stand up guys to me.