Hilda and Jesse’s refused to serve three police officers

Picton

NES Member
Rating - 100%
34   0   0
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
19,545
Likes
28,441
Location
MA
Remind me again who stated they were not welcome in the business ?
You are not answering the question and seem to want it both ways.
That's not how real life works.

Is your take on it that they should violate the wishes and rights of the owner and go in anyway ?
In any other case you would be screaming JBTs ! , JBTs !

Only in your world would someone in authority actually respecting the wishes of the citizen become a bad thing.

I'll try to be clear: I don't buy that a taxpayer's expectation of police services ought to be based on whether the cops like them or not. Do you disagree?
 

cams

NES Member
Rating - 100%
35   0   0
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
7,450
Likes
27,856
Location
Boston
You’re never going to agree on this garbage. It’s not even worth it. The cops will respond to their calls there if needed.

If only to be able to look the owners in the face and say you’re welcome as they drag off some skell that came in and smashed the place up or something. Couple scared hippies isn't worth all this angst.
 

Picton

NES Member
Rating - 100%
34   0   0
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
19,545
Likes
28,441
Location
MA
So it should follow that people have the right to request the police not to enter their place of business to enforce crimes against them or their business. This seems fair to me. I as a taxpayer pay for the service of police. If I request they do not perform that service for me, what is the issue?

They're not requesting that the cops withhold policing services from their restaurant, though. They're simply requesting that the cops not eat there. There's a difference.
 

Picton

NES Member
Rating - 100%
34   0   0
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
19,545
Likes
28,441
Location
MA

Well, armed actually. But either way, it's not clear to me that the business owner is deliberately deciding to remove the premises from police intervention in the case of a crime.

Some posters here believe it's hunky-dory for the police to make that decision unilaterally. I'm not sure what theory of policing backs that up.
 

cathouse01

NES Member
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
1,482
Likes
2,749
Update, the owners have apologized.

"We made a mistake and apologize for the unfortunate incident on Friday when we asked members of the San Francisco Police Department to leave our restaurant," co-owners Rachel Sillcocks and Kristina Liedags Compton wrote in statement posted to Instagram Sunday afternoon. "We are grateful to all members of the force who work hard to keep us safe, especially during these challenging times."
Before their apology, San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott had said the following:

"The San Francisco Police Department stands for safety with respect, even when it means respecting wishes that our officers and I find discouraging and personally disappointing. I believe the vast majority of San Franciscans welcome their police officers, who deserve to know that they are appreciated for the difficult job we ask them to do—in their uniforms— to keep our neighborhoods and businesses safe."

Which I believe is in line with the point @Picton is making. The cops will do their job, whether they like someone’s position or not.
 

Mesatchornug

Instructor
NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
5,417
Likes
8,721
Location
People's Republik
Well, armed actually. But either way, it's not clear to me that the business owner is deliberately deciding to remove the premises from police intervention in the case of a crime.

Some posters here believe it's hunky-dory for the police to make that decision unilaterally. I'm not sure what theory of policing backs that up.
I thought their request was armed and/or in uniform. I was (over)simplifying on the idea that the uniform includes the firearm. Regardless, I agree with you.
 

jeepchute

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
431
Likes
277
They're not requesting that the cops withhold policing services from their restaurant, though. They're simply requesting that the cops not eat there. There's a difference.
Well, the original post said they were not welcome in the restaurant while on-duty, in their uniform and with their weapons. How do you interpret that as asking them to continue providing policing?

I actually don't disagree with your initial premise that they 100% should not provide a different level of police service to this restaurant because it is the right thing to do. That is what good police and good people do.

You are incorrect however if you believe they are required to do so. Police are, for good or bad, given the leeway to do as much or as little as they want while doing their job. See Town of Castle Rock vs Gonzales. I am not defending these actions. It is however further evidence that you are in charge of your own safety. It just expands the saying "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away...or more...if they show up."
 

Picton

NES Member
Rating - 100%
34   0   0
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
19,545
Likes
28,441
Location
MA
Well, the original post said they were not welcome in the restaurant while on-duty, in their uniform and with their weapons. How do you interpret that as asking them to continue providing policing?

I actually don't disagree with your initial premise that they 100% should not provide a different level of police service to this restaurant because it is the right thing to do. That is what good police and good people do.

You are incorrect however if you believe they are required to do so. Police are, for good or bad, given the leeway to do as much or as little as they want while doing their job. See Town of Castle Rock vs Gonzales. I am not defending these actions. It is however further evidence that you are in charge of your own safety. It just expands the saying "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away...or more...if they show up."

Yes, that's why I based my comments not on legality, but on professionalism.

And I interpreted the original post as the restaurant's subsequent statements have clarified: they're not welcome to eat there because one of their employees was triggered by their Evyl Gunzz. That's a FAR cry from saying the restaurant is opting out of police services. Seems obvious to me, but maybe it's not as clear as I thought it was.
 

jeepchute

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
431
Likes
277
Yes, that's why I based my comments not on legality, but on professionalism.

And I interpreted the original post as the restaurant's subsequent statements have clarified: they're not welcome to eat there because one of their employees was triggered by their Evyl Gunzz. That's a FAR cry from saying the restaurant is opting out of police services. Seems obvious to me, but maybe it's not as clear as I thought it was.
Then we agree on what should happen. I think I just take it to the conclusion it was a dumb move. But their place, their rules. And they have paid the price for that.
 

AHM

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
17,291
Likes
19,617
You’re never going to agree on this garbage. It’s not even worth it. The cops will respond to their calls there if needed.
(To be fair), except for any stand-down orders from the brass.

Not saying any of the Hub rank-and-file would approve of that.


I really don't remember any riot/loot/burn squads getting a big wink from BPD
in the past two years; a la Chicago or Portland.

But this being the PRM we could easily face that in the future.
 

jeepchute

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
431
Likes
277
Is the discretion to not act absolute?
I am far from an expert. But looking at the Supreme Court decision in Castle Rock v. Gonzales it sure seems it. Lady had a restraining order against her ex husband that covered her and the kids, he came and kidnapped the kids, she reported it repeatedly, like every hour that night. Police decided kids were with dad, no need to enforce restraining order. Dad shows up at the police station and starts shooting and commits suicide by cop. They find the 3 murdered girls in the dad truck. Police had no responsibility due to their failure to act on a violated restraining order and reported kidnapping.

It is appalling, but in a free society how do you balance a duty to enforce with an ability to use discretion. I appreciated discretion the other day when I was pulled over for a taillight and no sticker and got a verbal warning. It I not an easy choice but I think most would agree there are times you need to act, you just can't write that into a black and white law.
 

Dadstoys

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
17,708
Likes
17,172
Location
North Shore
You butt hurt people should start a Facebook page on all this.

I'll try to be clear: I don't buy that a taxpayer's expectation of police services ought to be based on whether the cops like them or not. Do you disagree?
The cops did nothing but try and get a damn coffee and were told they were not welcome on the the property.
The owner said "I DON"T WANT YOU HERE ."
There are only five words there in quotes. Which one is hanging you up ?
Is it one word in particular or the sequence they are in ?
 

Picton

NES Member
Rating - 100%
34   0   0
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
19,545
Likes
28,441
Location
MA
The cops did nothing but try and get a damn coffee and were told they were not welcome on the the property.
The owner said "I DON"T WANT YOU HERE ."
There are only five words there in quotes. Which one is hanging you up ?
Is it one word in particular or the sequence they are in ?

It's the circumstances under which they're said, and you know it well.
 

PaulR

NES Member
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
9,431
Likes
7,881
Location
Western MASS
wow.
Well, they apologized anyways.
Too little to late in an attempt to save their asses imho.
Whatever.
I'm just thinking I should have gone out and visited all these places 10+ years ago before they went to crap.
I don't think things are going to turn around any time soon.
 

Dadstoys

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
17,708
Likes
17,172
Location
North Shore
It's the circumstances under which they're said, and you know it well.
You bet.
I'll keep this one for the next time a cop inserts himself where he's not wanted and you're bashing away .

Years ago I had to explain the good neighbor policy to a young man who moved in down the street and made himself the street dickhead right off the bat.

If you're a good neighbor and i hear someone from your house yelling Help Help, I rush over to help call the police , whatever.
If your a bad neighbor , I turn up the TV.

If your a good neighbor and I see smoke coming out the windows of your house I call the fire department , rush over to help , whatever.
If your a bad neighbor I grab a lawn chair and a cold beverage and watch the show.

I think i made my point.
 

SHOCKNAWE

NES Member
Rating - 100%
41   0   0
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
5,000
Likes
8,473
Location
FU Mass, TY NH
Regarding this banter about the Police getting butthurt over this and possibly having a hypothetical “Slow Response” to this establishment for an incident in the future is based on two things.

1- The Human Element where each individual has to look at their own moral compass and either do the right thing or not. There is no clear cut way of deciding how an officer on that force mindset will be. It’s entirely up to the individual/s on how they will react.

2-The Fact is that police are held to a higher standard and should have the understanding that they are paid to eat shit and like it or not but they have a job to do regardless of their feelings.

In my experience inside a prison which is a vastly different playing field than the police- take your pick better or worse - I was faced with numerous situations over the years where I was faced with “Helping” vile child molesters and it all boiled down to just getting the job done and I can say that for the most part we all did what we had to do whether we liked it or not. It’s a mind set that you form and insulate yourself from getting emotionally involved, it’s not easy but after awhile it becomes second nature. There are some that can’t and they usually don’t last.

I say this incident will be forgotten about to some degree and some if not most just won’t give this place business going forward but the job at hand would take over if they needed police assistance. I could be wrong but that’s my take
 

Mesatchornug

Instructor
NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
5,417
Likes
8,721
Location
People's Republik
It is appalling, but in a free society how do you balance a duty to enforce with an ability to use discretion. I appreciated discretion the other day when I was pulled over for a taillight and no sticker and got a verbal warning. It I not an easy choice but I think most would agree there are times you need to act, you just can't write that into a black and white law.
easy.

a "free society"doesn't have malum prohibtum laws that cause officers to apply their discretion. Only criminalize things with actual victims, and you won't get pulled over for inspection stickers and out taillights.

boom. solved.
 

jeepchute

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
431
Likes
277
easy.

a "free society"doesn't have malum prohibtum laws that cause officers to apply their discretion. Only criminalize things with actual victims, and you won't get pulled over for inspection stickers and out taillights.

boom. solved.
In, show me this magical place
 

Dench

NES Member
Rating - 100%
121   0   0
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
22,524
Likes
16,850
Location
FL
You bet.
I'll keep this one for the next time a cop inserts himself where he's not wanted and you're bashing away .

Years ago I had to explain the good neighbor policy to a young man who moved in down the street and made himself the street dickhead right off the bat.

If you're a good neighbor and i hear someone from your house yelling Help Help, I rush over to help call the police , whatever.
If your a bad neighbor , I turn up the TV.

If your a good neighbor and I see smoke coming out the windows of your house I call the fire department , rush over to help , whatever.
If your a bad neighbor I grab a lawn chair and a cold beverage and watch the show.

I think i made my point.

This is something that a bad neighbor would say to other bad neighbors. [rofl]
 

Dadstoys

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
17,708
Likes
17,172
Location
North Shore
This is something that a bad neighbor would say to other bad neighbors. [rofl]
I love my neighborhood.
Solid folks that help each other out .
Most of us even shoot together.
When it come to a-holes though ......
My Grandfather said to never reward stupidity , it only encourages it .
 
Top Bottom