Hidden compartments in your car could become a felony!

JayMcB

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It has nothing at all, really, to do with what you're hiding. It's a gross overreach of the state. Anyone who supports this should be hung in the town square along with the legislators who vote for it.

THIS.

How long before someone decides that having a hide in your pants (formerly known as a 'pocket') is PC for a search by extension?

No, no, no & NO.
 
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no, you don't.
I should be able to use my money to modify my car anyway I want. Maybe I want a hydraulic "hide" in my car so my wife can't find my porno mags.

It has nothing at all, really, to do with what you're hiding. It's a gross overreach of the state. Anyone who supports this should be hung in the town square along with the legislators who vote for it.

Ya cuz u know me so well right?
Again, nothing wrong with a hide for porn. Unless you start putting illegal crap in there for the purpose if hiding and transporting and get busted with it in the hide. Thus would have to be a charge added in when busted with drugs or something in there. Not just and empty hide. I see my argument is falling on deaf ears so why bother? If you like dealers and scumbags in your neighborhoods then don't support this. But don't complain when they're in your neighborhood "conducting business"
 
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whacko

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yet another knee jerk reaction where the middle aged white suburbanite will be targeted cause they're easy prey for shit like this. cops wouldn't dare bust anyone else for this because they fear the backlash.

You're missing the point.

Do you not realize that the important part of the bill isn't the forfeiture part (although that's bad) but the "you're not allowed to have secrets, or you're a felon" part?

This^

Don't know why the forfeiture came up at all.

This bill is bonkers! I can't put an aftermarket safe under my seat to store cash when I'm outside the vehicle?!?! This is exactly what someone else said......charge stacking.
 
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THIS.

How long before someone decides that having a hide in your pants (formerly known as a 'pocket') is PC for a search by extension?

No, no, no & NO.

Pockets show that you have something to hide - if you didn't have something to hide why would you have them? If you are opposed to this, you must have something to hide, and if you have something to hide it must be EVIL. It's for the children.
 

whacko

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Wow, seriously? You guys are a bunch of paranoid tinfoil hat wearers. This is is being introduced because of all the people busted with secret compartments for heroin and drugs, cash from selling those drugs and illegally owned firearms to protect the drugs and cash. These vehicles are being driven by thugs and scumbags, not "middle aged white suburbanites". Honestly, if that is considered "stacking the charges" then who gives a shit? One more charge on another scumbag drug dealer that the court will have to justify throwing out. I seriously doubt you middle aged white guys driving your Prius into Boston have to worry

This guy ^

Does not understand freedom. Period.
 

Friday

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Goliathan

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Ya cuz u know me so well right?
Again, nothing wrong with a hide for porn. Unless you start putting illegal crap in there for the purpose if hiding and transporting. I see my argument is falling on deaf ears so why bother? If you like dealers and scumbags in your neighborhoods then don't support this. But don't complain when they're in your neighborhood "conducting business"

And who gets to decide if I built that hide for porn or for drugs, if there are no drugs or porn in it? Thoughtcrime? Really?
 

whacko

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The criteria is too vague, and while it could apply to an under seat locked box for gun storage as written, without the nexus to illegal activity this would be thrown out as being over broad.

You mean just like how all the "direct control" verbage on out current gun transportaws got tossed out for being too broad.....oh wait......[rolleyes]
 
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Don't know why the forfeiture came up at all.

I was commenting on the article. Having worked in asset forfeiture, and having written forfeiture complaints seizing cars with hides built into them, I am not alarmed by this bill in concept but, as written, it is too over broad.
 

whacko

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I love our constitution. Served to protect it.
This is about those hides engineered with hydraulics or hidden buttons to release it, or a series of buttons knobs and switches to open a hide. I doubt any of you keep your firearms in a compartment like that when traveling. Did you hack your cars roof off and fill it with ARs and ammo then Bondo it, paint it and put it back on just to go to the range? No.

Where does it specify that it's about hides with knobby Turney spinny thingies to open them?
 
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And who gets to decide if I built that hide for porn or for drugs, if there are no drugs or porn in it? Thoughtcrime? Really?

Exactly why it needs to be written as an added charge when caught with drugs or something in it. Not just used for an empty hide or something completely legal that is hidden for safety and security
 

whacko

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I love our constitution. Served to protect it.
This is about those hides engineered with hydraulics or hidden buttons to release it, or a series of buttons knobs and switches to open a hide. I doubt any of you keep your firearms in a compartment like that when traveling. Did you hack your cars roof off and fill it with ARs and ammo then Bondo it, paint it and put it back on just to go to the range? No.

By the way....just because you served to protect the Constitution doesn't mean you have ever read it or understand it!

FACT

- - - Updated - - -

If I wanted to do that, I should be able to. Lots of guys stash ARs in hidden compartments inside bookshelves and wall shelves. Why not in a car too? Secure in my person and my belongings. Hidden compartments are like encryption - there is the possibility of good and bad uses, but government is too dumb to know the difference. (or just doesn't care, which is more likely)

- - - Updated - - -



..
It's like the law in NY where if you are riding in the vehicle with someone who has a gun under their seat, every occupant in the car can be charged with felony possession. It seems clearly unconstitutional to me, but I'm just a paranoid tinfoil wearer.

morgan-freeman-hes-right-u-know-hes-right-you-know.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think I made my argument clear. I'm not against hides in general, just the ones these scumbags are using for their illegal crap. If a licensed person wants to tear up their car to hide a legal firearm, fine. A bit wierd and can raise some eyebrows and may lead to some questions to make sure everything is good to go but whatever. Which is why this needs to be written in such a way that only scumbags will be charged with it.

Well it's NY so I'm not surprised. That needs to change. Being charged and convicted/sentenced are totally different. That just reinforces why this needs to be written carefully.

^ STATIST

- - - Updated - - -

no, you don't.




I should be able to use my money to modify my car anyway I want. Maybe I want a hydraulic "hide" in my car so my wife can't find my porno mags.

It has nothing at all, really, to do with what you're hiding. It's a gross overreach of the state. Anyone who supports this should be hung in the town square along with the legislators who vote for it.

You still have porno mags? [rofl]

There is this thing called free internet porn these days. Just in case you didn't know.

- - - Updated - - -

Drugs are already illegal. Why do we need to make drug hides illegal too? By the way - the war on drugs isn't keeping people off of drugs. It's keep cops, courts, and jails busy and making a few people at the top of cartels rich.

This^ x a billion!
 

terraformer

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The criteria is too vague, and while it could apply to an under seat locked box for gun storage as written, without the nexus to illegal activity this would be thrown out as being over broad.

Because I litigate gun issues in this hellhole of a state, I don't share your optimism about this. And given that any firearms activity is presumptively illegal in this state (note, possession is universally barred, with narrow exceptions enumerated) I see no reason that when a gun is involved, even nominally legally, this law will apply to the possessors. The SJC has made it clear that nothing short of full open carry is the only constitutionally protected form of outside the home possession, but only if SCOTUS claims it even applies outside the home.
 

Goliathan

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Exactly why it needs to be written as an added charge when caught with drugs or something in it. Not just used for an empty hide or something completely legal that is hidden for safety and security

So your point is that it's illegal to have drugs, but it should be even more illegal to do it sneakily...?
 

jhblaze1

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Ya cuz u know me so well right?
Again, nothing wrong with a hide for porn. Unless you start putting illegal crap in there for the purpose if hiding and transporting and get busted with it in the hide. Thus would have to be a charge added in when busted with drugs or something in there. Not just and empty hide. I see my argument is falling on deaf ears so why bother? If you like dealers and scumbags in your neighborhoods then don't support this. But don't complain when they're in your neighborhood "conducting business"

I know that you posted that you hate freedom. All I really need to know.

Your argument is such shit dude, just give it up and admit you didn't think it through.
 

drgrant

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Ya cuz u know me so well right?
Again, nothing wrong with a hide for porn. Unless you start putting illegal crap in there for the purpose if hiding and transporting and get busted with it in the hide. Thus would have to be a charge added in when busted with drugs or something in there. Not just and empty hide. I see my argument is falling on deaf ears so why bother? If you like dealers and scumbags in your neighborhoods then don't support this. But don't complain when they're in your neighborhood "conducting business"

The entire law is bad, if you don't understand this you are part of the problem.
 

whacko

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The entire law is bad, if you don't understand this you are part of the problem.

I may strike a nerve with this one.....but oh well here we go:

Yes he's part of the problem but I'm going go out on a limb here and "guess" that with all the banter about scumbag drug dealers and all......that there is a close relationship to an addict here and he's blaming the dealers. So trumping up more abilities to charge a dealer is more betterer right? And that's going to solve all the drub problems in this country. Right?[rolleyes]

I see this all the time. Middle aged parents of twenty something year old kids that are on drugs......who do they blame? The dealer of course. Can't possibly be any lack of character in the up bringing or lack of character in the addicted chidern? Right?
 

42!

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The article is both factually wrong and misleading regarding the disposition of funds seized in asset forfeiture. The police do not keep all of it, and the funds cannot be used to pay police salaries (not that it was stated, but it was implied).

Here is a paper that I helped write for the Worcester District Attorney's office discussing asset forfeiture. http://worcesterda.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Prevention-paper.pdf
But those funds can be kept in cash, unmonitored, and easily available to anyone so officers can help themselves.... Or is that just in Framingham.

Full disclosure, those funds are now kept in an account. That the town CFO does not manage/have access, doesn't appear on any PD budgets, and as a result any supplies/equipment purchased with it don't show as town assets.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

Rob Boudrie

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Meaning within the reach, lunge, or grab area of the vehicle? Essentially, within the passenger compartment?
That definition only holds if "direct control" is something that can be used against you. If "direct control" is protective (as in carrying gun), anything non on your person is not considered "direct control".
 

DispositionMatrix

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The USA PATRIOT Act was sold under the pretext certain provisions would not be used in cases unrelated to terrorism--essentially that we can trust law enforcement and prosecutors to uphold the spirit of the law because they are nice. It took just a few months for that to be proven false. Give prosecutors a tool and they will use it. Bills as vague as H.1266 should never be allowed to become law. Laws should be painfully specific.

This bill has the added bonus for law enforcement of incentivizing via the potential to employ state-sponsored theft against non-LEOs.
 

milktree

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Backscatter x-ray was pulled from airports, probably because too many people (like me) were opting for the manual junk check.

What? When did this happen? That wasn't true a few months ago.

Like you, I'm that guy who makes everyone wait because I'd rather the grope-down than the cancer-scan.
 

milktree

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Wow, seriously? You guys are a bunch of paranoid tinfoil hat wearers. This is is being introduced because of all the people busted with secret compartments for heroin and drugs, cash from selling those drugs and illegally owned firearms to protect the drugs and cash. These vehicles are being driven by thugs and scumbags, not "middle aged white suburbanites". Honestly, if that is considered "stacking the charges" then who gives a shit? One more charge on another scumbag drug dealer that the court will have to justify throwing out. I seriously doubt you middle aged white guys driving your Prius into Boston have to worry

You must be joking, playing Devil's advocate for humor value.

I love our constitution. Served to protect it.
This is about those hides engineered with hydraulics or hidden buttons to release it, or a series of buttons knobs and switches to open a hide. I doubt any of you keep your firearms in a compartment like that when traveling. Did you hack your cars roof off and fill it with ARs and ammo then Bondo it, paint it and put it back on just to go to the range? No.

Wait.. Wat? Maybe not joking. What difference does it make how it's constructed?


I will agree that is messed up. We cannot allow MA to write ours the same way, "operating a vehicle containing a hide". If it's not being used to hide drugs or cash or something then you really don't have anything. It could be the person had no idea it was there and should not be charged. Adding on another charge for scumbags trafficking heroin isn't a bad thing.

Did you even read the bill? Simply *having* the hidey hole is a felony, even if it's empty, even if you didn't know it's there (used car).

I don't think I made my argument clear. I'm not against hides in general, just the ones these scumbags are using for their illegal crap. If a licensed person wants to tear up their car to hide a legal firearm, fine. A bit wierd and can raise some eyebrows and may lead to some questions to make sure everything is good to go but whatever. Which is why this needs to be written in such a way that only scumbags will be charged with it.

Well it's NY so I'm not surprised. That needs to change. Being charged and convicted/sentenced are totally different. That just reinforces why this needs to be written carefully.

What the hell is wrong with you? Who's the scumbag? The black guy? The guy with couple grams of weed? The gun owner? Ask Maura Healey.

"just scumbags"? That's the most... I was going to say "laughable", but it's not, because "laughable" implies "funny"; but it's not funny, it's downright unpatriotic and angry-making and dangerous to a free society. Everyone who gets arrested is a scumbag, otherwise they wouldn't get arrested, right? And even if someone *is* a scumbag, having a secret place to hide stuff is protected by the 4th Amendment! Even scumbags have rights; that's why we call them rights.



Ya cuz u know me so well right?

Well, based on what you've written here, I know you well enough. Unless you're having a seizure and this isn't your normal personality.


Again, nothing wrong with a hide for porn. Unless you start putting illegal crap in there for the purpose if hiding and transporting and get busted with it in the hide. Thus would have to be a charge added in when busted with drugs or something in there. Not just and empty hide. I see my argument is falling on deaf ears so why bother? If you like dealers and scumbags in your neighborhoods then don't support this. But don't complain when they're in your neighborhood "conducting business"

Why is hiding something illegal any more than simply having it? What's the difference between "hiding" something in the spare tire well and in a special custom place? What's the difference between "hiding" something in a bag in the trunk and in the tire well?


Why do you think "add on" charges are OK? That's a serious question. I think they're a terrible idea. They're a ham-fisted way for law enforcement to convict people without sufficient evidence. It's pretty common to charge someone with *way* more things than are reasonable so they'll plead down to something less (but the state still gets a conviction!) without the state needing to actually defend the charges.

If someone has done something wrong, charge him with the something. It's offensive to simply pile on crap so it's impossible to dig out, even if you've done nothing wrong.
 
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Wow, seriously? You guys are a bunch of paranoid tinfoil hat wearers. This is is being introduced because of all the people busted with secret compartments for heroin and drugs, cash from selling those drugs and illegally owned firearms to protect the drugs and cash. These vehicles are being driven by thugs and scumbags, not "middle aged white suburbanites". Honestly, if that is considered "stacking the charges" then who gives a shit? One more charge on another scumbag drug dealer that the court will have to justify throwing out. I seriously doubt you middle aged white guys driving your Prius into Boston have to worry

Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say, - Edward Snowden

You, sir, are an uneducated jackass and need to rethink what you wrote. You are the enemy when it comes to natural law.
 

mcshooter

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For work, I was given a new GMC for a day, it had one of these fancy compartments hidden in it, and came from the factory. I wonder how this law would affect mfg putting compartments like this in them
 

Goliathan

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I love our constitution. Served to protect it.
This is about those hides engineered with hydraulics or hidden buttons to release it, or a series of buttons knobs and switches to open a hide. I doubt any of you keep your firearms in a compartment like that when traveling. Did you hack your cars roof off and fill it with ARs and ammo then Bondo it, paint it and put it back on just to go to the range? No.

Wait.. Wat? Maybe not joking. What difference does it make how it's constructed?


Nah, it's a features test, man. Like if the compartment has more than two scary features, like a bullet button and a funny smell, or if its operating system is substantially the same as an Enumerated Hiding Device (actual description to be provided later at the AG's whim), it's considered a copycat Assault Hidey-Hole and subject to prosecution. Because, you never know, it *might* be used in a crime one day.
 

mibro

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Nah, it's a features test, man. Like if the compartment has more than two scary features, like a bullet button and a funny smell, or if its operating system is substantially the same as an Enumerated Hiding Device (actual description to be provided later at the AG's whim), it's considered a copycat Assault Hidey-Hole and subject to prosecution. Because, you never know, it *might* be used in a crime one day.

Brilliant and exactly how this proposed "law" will work in Mass.
 

kalash

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Exactly why it needs to be written as an added charge when caught with drugs or something in it. Not just used for an empty hide or something completely legal that is hidden for safety and security
Take a look at your own posts when you sober up. You're making zero sense.
 

enbloc

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