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Newbie question here. I have a friend in Ct and I am a mass resident with a LTC PERMIT. I was invited to his house in CT to possibly go shooting. Was wondering of this is possible? Can I bring my own 45?


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slap shot

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So no one that doesn't live in CT can ever drive to any type of shooting competition there ever again?

Find that hard to believe....
 

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Don't think he was asking about a shooting competition...but that is an exception.

The law exempts from the permit requirement Connecticut parole and peace officers; other states' parole or peace officers on official business; federal marshals and law enforcement officers; legally appointed and certified motor vehicle inspectors performing their official duties; U.S. Armed Forces members on, or going to or from, duty; and members of a military organization on parade or going to or from a place of assembly. It also exempts anyone carrying a handgun (1) in its original package from the point of purchase to his or her home or business place, (2) as merchandise, (3) for repair or when moving household goods, (4) to or from a testing range at a firearm permit-issuing authority's request, or (5) to a competition or exhibit under an out-of-state permit (CGS § 29-35).
 

slap shot

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For clarification, Couldn't a range trip be covered under competition or exhibit? How the hell do they know why you're there? Bullshit law!
 

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For clarification, Couldn't a range trip be covered under competition or exhibit? How the hell do they know why you're there? Bullshit law!
I'd say good luck proving a trip to the range with a buddy should be considered a competition (not saying it shouldn't)....especially in CT. I tend to think about 95% of the laws on the books are bullshit.
 
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No, the range trip excuse won't cut it. It's just like when CT residents wanted to continue shooting over at S&W in East Springfield. For years it wasn't an issue and then it was. Since there was no actual match happening there was no coverage under FOPA to go to S&W to shoot from CT unless you had a MA LTC. They've made that very difficult to get, too.

So, unfortunately for you, you can't take your hardware over state lines, legally, to shoot at your buddy's house. But, you CAN bring your own ammo and shoot it up through his hardware. No rules against that.

Rome
 

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No, the range trip excuse won't cut it. It's just like when CT residents wanted to continue shooting over at S&W in East Springfield. For years it wasn't an issue and then it was. Since there was no actual match happening there was no coverage under FOPA to go to S&W to shoot from CT unless you had a MA LTC. They've made that very difficult to get, too.

So, unfortunately for you, you can't take your hardware over state lines, legally, to shoot at your buddy's house. But, you CAN bring your own ammo and shoot it up through his hardware. No rules against that.

Rome
FOPA doesn't cover you automatically for competitions. C. 140 S. 131C is a "false promise" and really isn't a valid exemption, we were just mis-interpreting it for many years. One has to read it as if one were a 9th grade English teacher for grammar to understand the true meaning of the words and then compare it with the visitor's state law to see if that state law qualifies for the exemption (Jason Guida claimed that NO state did and I believe him but won't study 50 states laws to try to prove him wrong).

You can bring ONLY low capacity long guns and ammo for same into MA for any legal reason, per exemption in C. 140 S. 129C (j). One could make the case that therefore they could bring ammo in w/o bringing any guns . . . a bit of a gray area.
 
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dcmdon

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CT law has exclusions for competitions, exhibits, and training. The training one is big because if your friend is a NRA certified instructor, you are in good shape provided you actually engage in some training. This only applies to handguns.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap_529.htm#sec_29-35

Possession of long guns that aren't considered to be AWs are not regulated in CT and neither is ammo. So do whatever you want with respect to shotguns and rifles. Just don't carry them loaded in the car. There are no transport requirements.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/chap943.htm#Sec53-205.htm


Be careful though, as pretty much any semi-auto centerfire rifle with a pistol grip and a detachable mag is now considered to be an AW. That includes even MA legal ARs and AKs.
 
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Isn't it legal to let a licensed friend barrow a firearm?

So what if the OP travels to his friends house in CT. Its legal to transport right? Then upon arrival the firearms are loaned to the friend who is licensed in CT.

Legal loop hole?
 

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Its legal to let any friend borrow any gun in CT. They don't have to be licensed in any way. Even for handguns.

Exceptions:
1) I'm not sure how it plays out with AWs I have to look at the details around possession.
2) CT doesn't prohibit loaning out a MG. But the feds do. If you have the MG in a trust, you can add the borrower as a trustee and as long as they arent a prohibited person, its ok.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't it legal to let a licensed friend barrow a firearm?

So what if the OP travels to his friends house in CT. Its legal to transport right? Then upon arrival the firearms are loaned to the friend who is licensed in CT.

Legal loop hole?
Woda - now I get to play the more conservative one. That wouldn't work. Because while traveling to the friends house, you would not be covered by FOPA or CT exemptions. You need to fit into one of those two categories to make it work.
 

dcmdon

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By the way. Re the training exemption, Ive looked at it again, and the training would also need to be taking place at some kind of a commercial or club range, not just a sand pit.

Here's the full statute:

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or any Department of Motor Vehicles inspector appointed under section 14-8 and certified pursuant to section 7-294d, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser’s residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person’s household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person’s place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person’s place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors’ group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, “formal pistol or revolver training” means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and “transporting a pistol or revolver” means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.
 
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Devils advocate checking in again:

What if the OP's friend meets him at the boarder and takes possession of the firearms there?

Assuming the firearms are literally handed across the boarder from one party to the next. Would that be legal?
 
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Devils advocate checking in again:

What if the OP's friend meets him at the boarder and takes possession of the firearms there?

Assuming the firearms are literally handed across the boarder from one party to the next. Would that be legal?

IF they got caught, I think that they would call that a "transfer" and if there is no paperwork of said "transfer" there would be major problems, i.e. trafficking. At least, that's my thought.
 
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WOW!!

That's quite a stretch!

[tinfoil] [tinfoil] [tinfoil]
How so? It would technically be a transfer across state lines. As I said, IF THEY GOT CAUGHT, depending on who noticed, the politicians would love to charge as many crimes as they could. CT now requires paperwork on any and all transfers.
 

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Do you understand what a "transfer" is in gun language?

It is a change of ownership.

What was recommended here was that someone borrow it to go shooting.

Real "transfers" of handguns between 2 people who are not residents of the same state require a transfer done by an FFL in the new owner's state. But this thread doesn't seem to be about a change of ownership.

Borrowing a gun across state lines is not a "transfer" and perfectly legal as long as it isn't used for CCW (used only for sporting purposes - this is Fed Law).
 
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dcmdon

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EMitch - Like Len said, the word "transfer" means a change of ownership.

Remember, our legal system is predicated on the concept that if something is not explicitly prohibited, its allowed. This is a handy thing to remember.

It means that any time you hear someone say " Show me the law that says that you can . . ." you can immediately assume that they don't have a clue about anything legal.

Because much of this is not actually codified in law. Its just an ATF interpretation, this is the best I can do for a citation.


Don

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons

(Remember, to the ATF, unlicensed means someone who is not a FFL)

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
 
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The reason I brought it up is because they would be residents of different states and I could see an over zealous PD/ADA/DA/etc use that language to say that they "transferred it" (since it would be in the possession of someone who is licensed in the current state because the other person isn't licensed).
 

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The reason I brought it up is because they would be residents of different states and I could see an over zealous PD/ADA/DA/etc use that language to say that they "transferred it" (since it would be in the possession of someone who is licensed in the current state because the other person isn't licensed).
.
[horse] [tinfoil]
 

dcmdon

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Emitch - len is laughing because your paranoia is even excessive for this board.

And I consider len to be a little paranoid.

He is also laughing because a transfer is a change of ownership. Its well established that loans are not transfers.

Here is a useful link, look at number 2.

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf
 
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Thanks, Don. I was under the impression, mistakenly, that you could only loan to someone in your state.

As for the paranoia, majoring in CJ does that to ya. Which was great when I applied for a job that asked: "Have you ever though of how to commit/get away with a crime". And I had to mark "yes". (There was a whole section in my classes about that). Another part is that I grew up in a free state, and seeing all the stupidity out here on the East Coast has made me think on what anti-gunners would try and pull.
 

dcmdon

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Mitch,

You need to purge yourself of your fear of arrest. They can arrest you for anything. Its a relatively painless process.

Fortunately for CT residents, its still just an inconvenience.
For a MA resident, any arrest could result in your LTC being pulled and you having to give up your right to keep and bear arms.

In CT worst case is your PP is pulled. But you still have the right to keep arms

People in CT need to understand that just possessing an AW now increases your chance of arrest. If you don't want to take a chance, shoot bolt guns and revolvers.

People in CT also need to understand that 99% of the time an otherwise law abiding citizen is arrested for something like this, no prosecution ever comes of it. If you've registered everything then use it as you otherwise would have. (Pay attention to the new transport restrictions on AWs, since there aren't restricitons on any other firearms in CT) If you haven't registered everything, then you need to fear arrest.

Don
 
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