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Hey! Keep Your Pants On!
- Thread starter JonJ
- Start date
America's crazies need to be locked up. Maybe that's a little harsh, but they need to be at least monitored; for their own safety as well as the safety of the general public. I'm quite surpirse at the number of people I've come across in public that obviously need some looking after. Left to their own devices, this sort of thing happens and this isn't all that bad. Traumatic, sure, but the family is safe in the end.
Well, you are correct that those suffering from mental illness need to be institutionalized. Unfortunately, most facilities that treated the mentally ill were closed down in the 1970's with the idea that the local communities would develop an infrastructure for treatment and support. Of course, no thought was given to the fact that most communities simply did not have the resources to take care of the mentally ill, and they increasingly became the burden of the criminal justice system.
Granted, many institutions were of the "snake pit" variety, but rather than carry out an agenda of institutional reform, they abolished the institutions and in the end this proved to be far more cruel and inhumane. It created a new class of petty criminal, often homeless with no infrastructure to support them.
One thing that we should remember is that mental illness is real illness. Terms like looneys, crazies, nut jobs, whackos etc. only tend to demean those forms of illnesses, many of which do have organic causes. Unfortunately the social stigma of mental illness is still with us. In the proper setting, and with the right medication and therapy these people can be helped and some even cured.
Mark
Granted, many institutions were of the "snake pit" variety, but rather than carry out an agenda of institutional reform, they abolished the institutions and in the end this proved to be far more cruel and inhumane. It created a new class of petty criminal, often homeless with no infrastructure to support them.
One thing that we should remember is that mental illness is real illness. Terms like looneys, crazies, nut jobs, whackos etc. only tend to demean those forms of illnesses, many of which do have organic causes. Unfortunately the social stigma of mental illness is still with us. In the proper setting, and with the right medication and therapy these people can be helped and some even cured.
Mark
+1 for the good guys! [lol]
Where does it say he suffered from mental illness? Unless your of the dubious shcool of thought that all criminals, pedofiles, etc can be excused for thier crimes because they are "obviously" suffering from mental illness, I would not make this assumption. Until further notice, he's just SCUM BAG!!
(ps: as someone with a daughter with Down syndrome, I tend to agree with Mark)
Matt
Where does it say he suffered from mental illness? Unless your of the dubious shcool of thought that all criminals, pedofiles, etc can be excused for thier crimes because they are "obviously" suffering from mental illness, I would not make this assumption. Until further notice, he's just SCUM BAG!!
(ps: as someone with a daughter with Down syndrome, I tend to agree with Mark)
Matt
Challenge is to separate the wheat from the chaffe.
How can someone like this NOT be mentally ill?
Once someone commits a violent crime against , then they should be either incarcerated or be put down (yes like the animal they are).
How can someone like this NOT be mentally ill?
Once someone commits a violent crime against , then they should be either incarcerated or be put down (yes like the animal they are).
senorFrog said:
It's not a popular notion in the world today, but there is EVIL. And some people have more than thier share. They nuture it. They cherish it. They act on it. All with a very clear mind.
To equate mental illness with evil is dangerous and ignorant.
Matt
But Matt, in order to accept and use the concept of evil, we'd be forced to make value judgements and use outmoded ideas like "right" and "wrong". There's no way that our enlightened educational system and government would want to take such a giant step backwards, even if the ACLU would allow it.
Ken
Ken
I think if you re-read my post you'll see I'm not advocating rounding up folks who really have a REAL mental illness. [roll]
Just trying to point out the difficulty in separating someone who is say, retarded from someone who murders their kids, like Andrea Yates.
The defense had said Andrea Yates suffers from a mental illness and therefore should not be punished for her actions. Only treated and possibly released.
How can someone who can drown their five children possibly be sane? I accept your evil exists reasoning. But, the question still remains, how do we separate the wheat from the chaffe?
I offer a single, but not the only, determinant; violence committed against others. Once you commit a horrific violent crime against someone else, you're done.
Just trying to point out the difficulty in separating someone who is say, retarded from someone who murders their kids, like Andrea Yates.
The defense had said Andrea Yates suffers from a mental illness and therefore should not be punished for her actions. Only treated and possibly released.
How can someone who can drown their five children possibly be sane? I accept your evil exists reasoning. But, the question still remains, how do we separate the wheat from the chaffe?
I offer a single, but not the only, determinant; violence committed against others. Once you commit a horrific violent crime against someone else, you're done.
Without knowing all of the specifics of the particular case in Florida, it is still highly probable that the person arrested was mentally ill, at least preliminary indicators suggest this. During the course of the investigation that is one of factors that will be checked out, I am sure.
Yes, evil exists, of that I am convinced. The truth of the matter is that very few people are ever found innocent by reason of mental defect. This is true especially in Massachusetts. An insanity defense it difficult to mount despite what popular culture suggests.
Many of the mentally ill who are on the street commit crimes but they tend to be more nusisance crimes related to being homeless etc.
Drug dealers, murderers and other perpetrators of violent crimes are exactly that: criminals and some are evil.
I'm with Senor Frog on this one. That was a good post IMO.
Mark
Yes, evil exists, of that I am convinced. The truth of the matter is that very few people are ever found innocent by reason of mental defect. This is true especially in Massachusetts. An insanity defense it difficult to mount despite what popular culture suggests.
Many of the mentally ill who are on the street commit crimes but they tend to be more nusisance crimes related to being homeless etc.
Drug dealers, murderers and other perpetrators of violent crimes are exactly that: criminals and some are evil.
I'm with Senor Frog on this one. That was a good post IMO.
Mark
My contest is with the automated assumption that he must be mentally ill. I would not be surprised if further investigation uncovered some history.
But to jump right there is to let him off the hook. And in making that automated assumption (criminal, therefore mentally ill) makes it easy to make the oppositte, and dangerous, assumption (mentally, therefore criminal). (see 'bazfoo' post above).
We all have a responsibility to control our actions. I absolutely agree a violent crime should lead to incarceration at the least.
[lol] [lol] [lol]
Matt
But to jump right there is to let him off the hook. And in making that automated assumption (criminal, therefore mentally ill) makes it easy to make the oppositte, and dangerous, assumption (mentally, therefore criminal). (see 'bazfoo' post above).
We all have a responsibility to control our actions. I absolutely agree a violent crime should lead to incarceration at the least.
KMaurer said:
[lol] [lol] [lol]
Matt
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