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Here we go again: Maine’s Susan Collins unveils a gun control bill

Were this bill to pass both houses of congress, the No Fly "selectee" list Collins, Ayotte, and Graham claim is so insignificant would experience significant growth. Once the gun prohibitionist horde has a vehicle for using a government enemies list as a weapon against gun owners, they're going to use it. Also, this will ensure government enemies lists like No Fly and the TWL are here to stay.
 
How Exactly does this bill stop another Orlando?
It doesn't .

Has there ever been a person on the no fly list that did a mass shooting?

and if like they say, the list is mostly foreigners, how bout a bill that just denies entry into the country ,by any means ?

more grandstanding b.s. By the coastal moon bats.
 
what don't they understand? We need to know how one is put on the list and why suspicion and not due process is being used. If you have suspicion and evidence of such then there should be a hearing at the very least if you are American. Foreigners I really couldn't care less. But if you are an American you cannot have your rights stripped away because of some FBI guy's fantasy of what you might be. Bring evidence and prove it in court or the name should never make a list. And yes the government should pay the court and attorney fees for the accused. And the accused should be able to retain the attorney of his/her choice regardless of rate and not have to settle for some government appointed flunky.
 
I think we all agree that we do NOT want terrorists here on US soil to be able to buy or be legally given firearms. And we do NOT want batshit crazy people (like paranoid schizos) owning guns either.

The NRA has recently clarified that they do NOT want people concealed carrying while drinking in bars.

So what CAN we do to keep terrorists in check??

I know this would be a much simpler question to answer IF we could actually trust the people in charge of the federal and state governments, which we can not. But still that does not stop us from crafting good laws to try to fix the problem.

This law in question, for the first time, gives you legal recourse to get your name off of a watch list (although I would like less vague wording in the law itself).
 
robjax said:
the dems will take it because it puts them a step closer to their incremental total gun ban.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely clear about what is super different from this proposal vs. the one on Monday that would have been a delay + probable cause hearing. The dems didn't go for that one... why?

At least the delay + probable cause hearing meant that the burden of proof was on the Government, vs. this proposal seems to be "prove that you're innocent".
 
Spanz said:
I think we all agree that we do NOT want terrorists here on US soil to be able to buy or be legally given firearms.

The NRA has recently clarified that they do NOT want people concealed carrying while drinking in bars.

So what CAN we do to keep terrorists in check??

I know this would be a much simpler question to answer IF we could actually trust the people in charge of the federal and state governments, which we can not. But still that does not stop us from crafting good laws to try to fix the problem.
Click to expand...

I'm not for nor will ever be for any law that purposely infringes on the rights of innocent Americans. And even further against any laws that circumvent due process. In addition...you can put all the laws in that you want. Terrorists will not be stopped unless we are allowed to stop them.

Guns were banned on the planes on 9/11. How id that all work out?

This is knee jerk. It will just strip more rights from law abiding citizens.
 
robjax said:
what don't they understand?
Click to expand...
They understand just fine. All one need do is ask oneself why the Democrats are against the due process aspect of this or any similar bills. If the secret government enemies list remains secret and offers no recourse for those flagged, it becomes the weapon for which gun prohibitionists have been looking to use against those who would dare try to own firearms.
 
JJ4 said:
I'm not entirely clear about what is super different from this proposal vs. the one on Monday that would have been a delay + probable cause hearing. The dems didn't go for that one... why?

At least the delay + probable cause hearing meant that the burden of proof was on the Government, vs. this proposal seems to be "prove that you're innocent".
Click to expand...

They are proposing a hearing after you are already on the list and denied of your rights. If you are suspected and they have evidence then you should be served a summons to appear. You should not be denied prior to that judgement. After-all we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

In these cases they accused would have found out there was a problem while they tried to board a plane or buy a gun. So they are still free to roam around and do whatever until they try to purchase a plane ticket or a firearm? Aren't these people supposed to be a danger? Why are they left to roam freely?

If they committed a crime arrest them. Otherwise leave them alone.

disclaimer.....Strictly speaking for American citizens here....
 
Last edited:
lets say you get put on the list for a NES post and go infront of a Massachusetts judge to get your rights back. ya good luck with that
 
Spanz said:
I think we all agree that we do NOT want terrorists here on US soil to be able to buy or be legally given firearms. And we do NOT want batshit crazy people (like paranoid schizos) owning guns either.

The NRA has recently clarified that they do NOT want people concealed carrying while drinking in bars.

So what CAN we do to keep terrorists in check??

I know this would be a much simpler question to answer IF we could actually trust the people in charge of the federal and state governments, which we can not. But still that does not stop us from crafting good laws to try to fix the problem.

This law in question, for the first time, gives you legal recourse to get your name off of a watch list (although I would like less vague wording in the law itself).
Click to expand...


And dont don't forget the amendment to refuse to allow the people on the list to buy pressure cookers, rent vans, buy fertilizer , buy knives, ect..
 
todd c said:
lets say you get put on the list for a NES post and go infront of a Massachusetts judge to get your rights back. ya good luck with that
Click to expand...
That might come later, but I suspect they would start abusing the new law, were it to pass, by dumping all 4473 names into the No Fly selectee list. They would also try to secretly expand the pool of names to the regular No Fly list. It could all be done out of the public eye.
 
Noreaster78 said:
The process we as MA residents need to go through to get a LTC, is less than the TSA pre-check process. A MA LTC should get you right on a plane. IMO.
Click to expand...


you show that license in line at the airport and the only line you'll go to the front of is for a cavity search. lol
 
I'd like to see what happens if you fly out to a foreign country and then get out on the "no fly" list while you are away and then you're stuck wherever you flew to.

These lists are no good and risk too much for very little gain. If the FBI is onto you, then they should get enough for a search warrant. If not, then back off.
 
MachineHead said:
I'd like to see what happens if you fly out to a foreign country and then get out on the "no fly" list while you are away and then you're stuck wherever you flew to.

These lists are no good and risk too much for very little gain. If the FBI is onto you, then they should get enough for a search warrant. If not, then back off.
Click to expand...


If the FBI is on to you then they don't need a list.

There should be a "no entry" list for ICE to deny entry and retain foreign citizens.

American citizens with outstanding warrants should be in a database for LEO & customs.

No other list should be necessary.
 
Spanz said:
So what CAN we do to keep terrorists in check??
Click to expand...
"Daily Waterboarding at Gitmo"... comes immediately to my terrible "mean-spirited" and "cruel and unusual" mind....immediately after dismissing "Live targets at Mass Rifle in Woburn" as an option (due to space limitations for the six hundred or so of us who'd eagerly volunteer to be "On the Line, with ten live rounds").

Just sayin'
 

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