Help with ID of two mystery rifles

fitter

NES Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
183
Likes
98
Location
Pennsylvania
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
I recently rescued some milsurp rifles from a deceased inlaws moldy, damp gun cabinet. I had to leave behind others due to time constraints and hacking and sneezing from the mold. There are two rifles that I cannot identify. One I think is a British milsurp and the other is, I think, a more modern Japanese bolt action. I took quick photos, through watery eyes in bad light, of the only markings I could find. Any help is appreciated.IMG_9015.jpgIMG_9016.jpgIMG_9017.jpgIMG_9043.jpgIMG_9044.jpg
 
Two sporterized (unfortunately) milsurps.

First one is either a Type 99 or Type 38, WW2-era Japanese service rifles. Stock is definitely not correct, nor is the rear sight.

The second is a No. 5 Mk I iteration of Lee-Enfield -- known as the "Jungle Carbine". Maybe not be sporterized actually, hard to tell. Appears to be missing the bayonet lug. If I recall, Jungle Carbines are often faked. It's also missing a magazine, unless it was removed for the photo or otherwise accessible.
 
Last edited:
My best guess, first one is a sporterized Japanese Arisaka, second one is a Lee Enfield No 5 Mk 1 jungle carbine, bayonet is a US m1905, will fit on a m1903 Springfield or M1 Garand, but was originally designed for the Springfield.
 
Two sporterized (unfortunately) milsurps.

First one is either a Type 99 or Type 38, WW2-era Japanese service rifles. Stock is definitely not correct, nor is the rear sight.

The second is a No. 5 Mk I iteration of Lee-Enfield -- known as the "Jungle Carbine". Maybe not be sporterized actually, hard to tell. Appears to be missing the bayonet lug. If I recall, Jungle Carbines are often faked. It's also missing a magazine, unless it was removed for the photo or otherwise accessible.
I saw a conical flash hider with a bayonet attached sitting in a bucket there. When I go back I will see if it fits.
 
I saw a conical flash hider with a bayonet attached sitting in a bucket there. When I go back I will see if it fits.

Original Jungle Carbine bayonets are on the scarce side, most of the ones out there are reproductions.
The bayo alone could be worth something depending on condition
 
The Japanese rifle was definitely sporterized unfortunately. I can see the bolt is jeweled which is not something they would be doing with WW2 going on lol
 
The Japanese rifle was definitely sporterized unfortunately. I can see the bolt is jeweled which is not something they would be doing with WW2 going on lol
I thought that was jeweling too, just seemed bizarre to do, but I guess if they already sporterized it.
The bolt handle is wrong, too. Looks swept down and maybe in the white. Arisaka bolts are straight handled.
 
Two sporterized (unfortunately) milsurps.

First one is either a Type 99 or Type 38, WW2-era Japanese service rifles. Stock is definitely not correct, nor is the rear sight.

The second is a No. 5 Mk I iteration of Lee-Enfield -- known as the "Jungle Carbine". Maybe not be sporterized actually, hard to tell. Appears to be missing the bayonet lug. If I recall, Jungle Carbines are often faked. It's also missing a magazine, unless it was removed for the photo or otherwise accessible.

With the Enfield, I'd want to see the starboard side of the rifle to see the arsenal stamp. Could've been a No. 1 MkIII or a No. 4 chopped down to be a "Jungle Carbine." Or see for any import marks.
 
I recently rescued some milsurp rifles from a deceased inlaws moldy, damp gun cabinet. I had to leave behind others due to time constraints and hacking and sneezing from the mold. There are two rifles that I cannot identify. One I think is a British milsurp and the other is, I think, a more modern Japanese bolt action. I took quick photos, through watery eyes in bad light, of the only markings I could find. Any help is appreciated.View attachment 316615View attachment 316616View attachment 316617View attachment 316618View attachment 316619
Type 99 with intact mum, shhhwing! Oh DT’d and sported so said. Bet its fun to shoot and may be worth inspecting chamber to make sure its correct. Not a lot of 7.7jap ammo around back then and some times chambers where re cut to something else.

enfield , jungle carbine. Low on my interest but worth finding more about as some folks will pay for those.

16” (looks like it) USGI bayonet if not a reproduction and not polished and sharpened can be worth some good coin. probably worth more than the rifles
 
My interest was in the bayo lol. But I hear the Ariskas with the Mum intact are desireable. I've never followed Japanese milsurps so wouldn't know, but a local shop to me always has a ton of interesting milsurps and the Ariskas with an intact Mum go quick.
 
Top arisaka with mum intact
Bottom enfield I think

That intact mum adds about 25% to the rifle's value.

OP, the mum means that it is property of the Emperor. A soldier would deface itt before capture, if they could, to save the Emperor from being shamed. After the war the PTB ordered all the mums ground off before they were brought home. So it is pretty rare to find them intact.

Type 99 with intact mum, shhhwing! Oh DT’d and sported so said.

Oh gross! I didn't even notice until I read this. What a shame, sad indeed. Hopefully it was a "last ditch" rifle. At least that would be a little less of a waste.
 
With the Enfield, I'd want to see the starboard side of the rifle to see the arsenal stamp. Could've been a No. 1 MkIII or a No. 4 chopped down to be a "Jungle Carbine." Or see for any import marks.
The photos are the only marks I could see with watery eyes and poor light. Will look again next time.
 
Here are a couple good info sources for the Arisaka that I found after impulse buying one this summer. [smile]


 
Type 99 with intact mum, shhhwing! Oh DT’d and sported so said. Bet its fun to shoot and may be worth inspecting chamber to make sure its correct. Not a lot of 7.7jap ammo around back then and some times chambers where re cut to something else.

enfield , jungle carbine. Low on my interest but worth finding more about as some folks will pay for those.

16” (looks like it) USGI bayonet if not a reproduction and not polished and sharpened can be worth some good coin. probably worth more than the rifles


Thanks for the tip. Bayonet is 16" has flaming bomb 1943 WT (Wilde Drop Forge & Tool (WT), Kansas City, MO ) They are pretty rare (only 60,000 produced) It is unsharpened and unpolished but unfortunately has some rust on blade and some corrosion on pommel and scabbard attachment. It's a shame, I think this poor man was meticulous in caring for all of this stuff and in his last years lost interest or ability to keep up with it.
 
The Arisaka is probably the strongest rifle used in WWII and unless it is a last ditch rifle, it has a chrome lined bore. If it hasn't been messed with it's probably still a good shooter but the overall condition and sporterizing make it almost worthless.
 
The Enfields are, indeed, often faked. But this one has the receiver cuts that the genuine ones do, which most fakers never bothered with. You’ll probably find a Faz marking on the left side of the receiver, electropenciled (edited. See below). I doubt it’s a fake.

There was a time 15 years ago when no 5 carbines were worth almost $700. Then they imported a bunch. No idea what the going rate is; I paid around $350 for an all-matching one in near-perfect shape, but that was in 1999 lol.

It’s a great firearm. I’ve owned every Enfield made, and it’s by far my favorite.

ETA: I blew up the photo. The No. 5 is a BSA 1945 product, which is on the rarer side. I’ll bet the mag is floating around somewhere in that shop. They’re detachable for cleaning, but were designed as fixed mags. That bayonet has nothing to do with the Carbine.

it does have a weird groove filed or machined into the receiver, though. That groove forward of the ejector screw does NOT belong there.
 
Last edited:
Actually, I’m seeing now that the groove isn’t a groove. It’s part of the lightening cuts. The Fazakerley examples don’t have such clumsy machining.

so. Find the mag and the flash hider with the bayo lug, and you may have yourself a fairly scarce wartime no 5 Mk 1.
 
Actually, I’m seeing now that the groove isn’t a groove. It’s part of the lightening cuts. The Fazakerley examples don’t have such clumsy machining.

so. Find the mag and the flash hider with the bayo lug, and you may have yourself a fairly scarce wartime no 5 Mk 1.
That's just where the milling cutter paused at the end of its travel and cut deeper relieving deflection of the tool. The other end of the cut is the same. Probably a dull tool.
 
That's just where the milling cutter paused at the end of its travel and cut deeper relieving deflection of the tool. The other end of the cut is the same. Probably a dull tool.

Yes. The internet has pics of BSA examples, and lots of them have the same thing. Dull tool FTW.
 
Some of the repro Jungle carbines by Gibb's Rifle Co in .308 had a "wandering zero" problem that gave my godfather fits. Here is a little more info on Gibbs rifles: Gibbs Rifle Company and their Enfield conversions

questcarbine.jpg
 
That intact mum adds about 25% to the rifle's value.

OP, the mum means that it is property of the Emperor. A soldier would deface itt before capture, if they could, to save the Emperor from being shamed. After the war the PTB ordered all the mums ground off before they were brought home. So it is pretty rare to find them intact.



Oh gross! I didn't even notice until I read this. What a shame, sad indeed. Hopefully it was a "last ditch" rifle. At least that would be a little less of a waste.
I like Arisaka rifles, drilled and tapped for the rear sight and sporter stock are not a deal breaker for me but the prices is much lower than one in original configuration
 
Thanks for the tip. Bayonet is 16" has flaming bomb 1943 WT (Wilde Drop Forge & Tool (WT), Kansas City, MO ) They are pretty rare (only 60,000 produced) It is unsharpened and unpolished but unfortunately has some rust on blade and some corrosion on pommel and scabbard attachment. It's a shame, I think this poor man was meticulous in caring for all of this stuff and in his last years lost interest or ability to keep up with it.
A litle rust and corrosion is ok , still holds more value than one with attempted sharp edge ground into it, bent , dinged or beat to sknot being used as tent pegs! True , my dad prefered he 10” ones !
 
Some of the repro Jungle carbines by Gibb's Rifle Co in .308 had a "wandering zero" problem that gave my godfather fits. Here is a little more info on Gibbs rifles: Gibbs Rifle Company and their Enfield conversions

questcarbine.jpg

The no 5’s “wandering zero” has had more Internet ink spilled over it than you’d think. Back when I was on cruffler.com in the 20th century internet, posters spent months debating it.

There’s no consensus except that nobody’s been able to duplicate the alleged wandering zero on a genuine no 5. The Gibbs carbines made a lot of sales because they claimed to have “fixed” the wandering zero. The one in this diagram is a converted Indian RFI Mk III.

Consensus is that the Gibbs rifles are fine and all, but they’re not “real” Enfields any more than the JJCO bitsers are “real” SMLEs.
 
Back
Top Bottom