Help Needed. Small rifle primers in lieu of small PP

[drgrant]

I wouldn’t worry about breach erosion. However if you have a tuned CZ like many of us (ie lighter springs) you may run into light strikes with small rifle primers. That would be the only concern I’d have.

It depends on how retarded you go with said springs. With my shadow 1 custom target, with the CZ custom tuning job, that gun lights off everything. If it doesn't, you went "too far" or didnt put in an extended firing pin or something like that.

 

[DW357]

I've read multiple forums as well as lots of info here, and have seen where guys have been reloading pistol for 30 years, only using SRP. I bought a case of the Fiocchi SRP from Shooters Outpost that was mentioned to give them a try, and they worked fine with no adverse effects. I got about 10 - 15 fps more, a small reduction in powder. My loads are generally mid to high range.

The breach erosion that was mentioned seemed to happen with lower loads, and most likely not seating the primer fully. I found that with the SRPs, which are harder than the SPPs, you have to give it a little extra to make sure it's fully seated. This is all just from what I read on forums, so take it for what it's worth.

Personally, I reloaded a small amount of 9mm using the SRPs with no issues. I'm going back out Friday with a larger batch with a higher powder charge to see how they do.

Also, the Fiocchi SRP are labeled "Magnum", however, there are several retailers that sell them online that note in the description that they are only labeled "Magnum" but are not actually magnum primers. Probably why they were stacked to the ceiling at Shooters Outpost when I bought them.

Nice! Glad to hear they worked well.

 

[kerryman71]

Nice! Glad to hear they worked well.

Thanks for the tip! I'm working up slowly, checking often just to make sure there are no issues. I've got 50 9mm 124 grain FMJRN over HS 6 loaded at the charge I usually load them at using SPPs. I fired some off before and as I said, the difference was negligible. I'll chrono some of the 50 and hit targets with the rest to see how they do.

 

[Smokewagon]

2

I've read multiple forums as well as lots of info here, and have seen where guys have been reloading pistol for 30 years, only using SRP. I bought a case of the Fiocchi SRP from Shooters Outpost that was mentioned to give them a try, and they worked fine with no adverse effects. I got about 10 - 15 fps more, a small reduction in powder. My loads are generally mid to high range.

The breach erosion that was mentioned seemed to happen with lower loads, and most likely not seating the primer fully. I found that with the SRPs, which are harder than the SPPs, you have to give it a little extra to make sure it's fully seated. This is all just from what I read on forums, so take it for what it's worth.

Personally, I reloaded a small amount of 9mm using the SRPs with no issues. I'm going back out Friday with a larger batch with a higher powder charge to see how they do.

Also, the Fiocchi SRP are labeled "Magnum", however, there are several retailers that sell them online that note in the description that they are only labeled "Magnum" but are not actually magnum primers. Probably why they were stacked to the ceiling at Shooters Outpost when I bought them.

I know I loaded a crapton of 9mm using any rifle primers i found. Be interested to hear your results. I don't think i ever saw more than 25FPS from a normal SPP and a magnum rifle primer in anyone one primer brand. I also picked up some of those Fiocchi SRP magnums several weeks back. I only got them because I don't have any load data for them. In all honestly I didn't need any, good price pre-sillyness, great price in todays climate. I should be trying them out within the next few weeks, hopefully sooner.

 

[kerryman71]

2


I know I loaded a crapton of 9mm using any rifle primers i found. Be interested to hear your results. I don't think i ever saw more than 25FPS from a normal SPP and a magnum rifle primer in anyone one primer brand. I also picked up some of those Fiocchi SRP magnums several weeks back. I only got them because I don't have any load data for them. In all honestly I didn't need any, good price pre-sillyness, great price in todays climate. I should be trying them out within the next few weeks, hopefully sooner.

Here's the info from this mornings range visit, using an HK VP9. 9mm 124 grain RMR FMJRN over 6.5 grains of HS6 using mixed brass. Prior to shooting the reloads, I shot a box (50) of Federal American Eagle 124 grain FMJ. 9:25 am 44 degrees F.

Chrono'd 15 rounds using Federal 100 SPP -
Avg 1152 fps PF Avg 142 ES 62 fps SD 26 fps

Chrono'd 15 rounds using Fiocchi SRP -
Avg 1165 fps PF Avg 144 ES 57 fps SD 13 fps

Shot a total of 100 rounds, 50 with the SPP
and 50 with the SRP. Hit steel and paper targets with good results. No issues, breech face is fine, etc.

 

[Smokewagon]

Here's the info from this mornings range visit, using an HK VP9. 9mm 124 grain RMR FMJRN over 6.5 grains of HS6 using mixed brass. Prior to shooting the reloads, I shot a box (50) of Federal American Eagle 124 grain FMJ. 9:25 am 44 degrees F.

Chrono'd 15 rounds using Federal 100 SPP -
Avg 1152 fps PF Avg 142 ES 62 fps SD 26 fps

Chrono'd 15 rounds using Fiocchi SRP -
Avg 1165 fps PF Avg 144 ES 57 fps SD 13 fps

Shot a total of 100 rounds, 50 with the SPP
and 50 with the SRP. Hit steel and paper targets with good results. No issues, breech face is fine, etc.

Thanks for the follow up. Not much difference at all really. Were these the Fiocchi SRP's marked magnum SRP from SO? Looks like I'll be hitting the range tomorrow if everything goes as planned. I've just got to load some up with the Fiocchi Magnum's SRP's I picked up to check them out.

 

[kerryman71]

Thanks for the follow up. Not much difference at all really. Were these the Fiocchi SRP's marked magnum SRP from SO? Looks like I'll be hitting the range tomorrow if everything goes as planned. I've just got to load some up with the Fiocchi Magnum's SRP's I picked up to check them out.

Yes, those are the exact same primers.

 

[Uzi2]

Small rifle primers in 9mm.......all day, everyday.

 

[DW357]

Here's the info from this mornings range visit, using an HK VP9. 9mm 124 grain RMR FMJRN over 6.5 grains of HS6 using mixed brass. Prior to shooting the reloads, I shot a box (50) of Federal American Eagle 124 grain FMJ. 9:25 am 44 degrees F.

Chrono'd 15 rounds using Federal 100 SPP -
Avg 1152 fps PF Avg 142 ES 62 fps SD 26 fps

Chrono'd 15 rounds using Fiocchi SRP -
Avg 1165 fps PF Avg 144 ES 57 fps SD 13 fps

Shot a total of 100 rounds, 50 with the SPP
and 50 with the SRP. Hit steel and paper targets with good results. No issues, breech face is fine, etc.

That’s awesome. Appreciate the follow up tests. Definitely a good buy from Shooters. Wonder how long those will last at SO.

 

[Smokewagon]

That’s awesome. Appreciate the follow up tests. Definitely a good buy from Shooters. Wonder how long those will last at SO.

They were getting them in sporadically. When I got them maybe a month ago now, they had 1 case left of the SRP's marked Magnums on the floor and said it was the last one they had. So they got more in within a couple weeks. Not sure if the price changed or not, I haven't been back yet.

 

[kerryman71]

I'm thinking the fact that they say "Magnum" on them may contribute to them not selling too quickly, plus maybe people aren't looking for 12K primers like us freaks here! You'd think there's some type of storage limit or something!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Here's the info from this mornings range visit, using an HK VP9. 9mm 124 grain RMR FMJRN over 6.5 grains of HS6 using mixed brass. Prior to shooting the reloads, I shot a box (50) of Federal American Eagle 124 grain FMJ. 9:25 am 44 degrees F.

As a bit of trivia, Hodgdon HS6 is the discontinued WW540 and HS7 is the discontinued WW571. I think they both are (were) from St Marks powder. And of course everyone knows H110==WW296.

And by equal, I mean the same source - not just similar specs.

 

[AHM]

As a bit of trivia, Hodgdon HS6 is the discontinued WW540 and HS7 is the discontinued WW571. I think they both are (were) from St Marks powder. And of course everyone knows H110=WW296.

P. S. Just teasing.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Forgot HP38==WW231

 

[kerryman71]

As a bit of trivia, Hodgdon HS6 is the discontinued WW540 and HS7 is the discontinued WW571. I think they both are (were) from St Marks powder. And of course everyone knows H110=WW296.

And by equal, I mean the same source - not just similar specs.

In addition, I think Hodgon HP 38 and W231 are the same. I've used HP 38 with good results in 9mm.

 

[kerryman71]

Beat me to it.

 

[Smokewagon]

Here's the info from this mornings range visit, using an HK VP9. 9mm 124 grain RMR FMJRN over 6.5 grains of HS6 using mixed brass. Prior to shooting the reloads, I shot a box (50) of Federal American Eagle 124 grain FMJ. 9:25 am 44 degrees F.

Chrono'd 15 rounds using Federal 100 SPP -
Avg 1152 fps PF Avg 142 ES 62 fps SD 26 fps

Chrono'd 15 rounds using Fiocchi SRP -
Avg 1165 fps PF Avg 144 ES 57 fps SD 13 fps

Shot a total of 100 rounds, 50 with the SPP
and 50 with the SRP. Hit steel and paper targets with good results. No issues, breech face is fine, etc.

So I had a range visit today with my oldest and got some chrono time in as well. Shot 4 strings alternating the pistol vs rifle primer batches. All through a Glock 34.

Fiocchi Small Rifle Primers in Magnum. 125gr Acme RN over 4.2 gr Win 231, 1.13OAL, mixed brass:

First string:
Avg 1141.70, Spread:38, StdDev 12.57

Second string:
Avg 1133.50, Spread:36, StdDev 11.79

Fiocchi Small Pistol Primers. 125gr Acme RN over 4.2 gr Win 231, 1.13OAL, mixed brass:

First string:
Avg 1120.50, Spread:25, StdDev 7.99

Second string:
Avg 1112.20, Spread:26, StdDev 9.00


No issues at all, everything ran well.

 

[Smokewagon]

I'm thinking the fact that they say "Magnum" on them may contribute to them not selling too quickly, plus maybe people aren't looking for 12K primers like us freaks here! You'd think there's some type of storage limit or something!

They had been busting the cases and selling by the 1500 count box too, or at least they had been.

 

[kerryman71]

So I had a range visit today with my oldest and got some chrono time in as well. Shot 4 strings alternating the pistol vs rifle primer batches. All through a Glock 34.

Fiocchi Small Rifle Primers in Magnum. 125gr Acme RN over 4.2 gr Win 231, 1.13OAL, mixed brass:

First string:
Avg 1141.70, Spread:38, StdDev 12.57

Second string:
Avg 1133.50, Spread:36, StdDev 11.79

Fiocchi Small Pistol Primers. 125gr Acme RN over 4.2 gr Win 231, 1.13OAL, mixed brass:

First string:
Avg 1120.50, Spread:25, StdDev 7.99

Second string:
Avg 1112.20, Spread:26, StdDev 9.00


No issues at all, everything ran well.

Good stuff. I've used Hodgdon HP 38 in the past, which is the same as W231. I like that powder.

 

[DW357]

So I had a range visit today with my oldest and got some chrono time in as well. Shot 4 strings alternating the pistol vs rifle primer batches. All through a Glock 34.

Fiocchi Small Rifle Primers in Magnum. 125gr Acme RN over 4.2 gr Win 231, 1.13OAL, mixed brass:

First string:
Avg 1141.70, Spread:38, StdDev 12.57

Second string:
Avg 1133.50, Spread:36, StdDev 11.79

Fiocchi Small Pistol Primers. 125gr Acme RN over 4.2 gr Win 231, 1.13OAL, mixed brass:

First string:
Avg 1120.50, Spread:25, StdDev 7.99

Second string:
Avg 1112.20, Spread:26, StdDev 9.00


No issues at all, everything ran well.

So there was a ~20 FPS increase with the SRPs. Wow.

 

[Smokewagon]

So there was a ~20 FPS increase with the SRPs. Wow.

Not too surprising to me when going from small pistol to small rifle magnum. I've gotten close to 25fps average increase within one brand between SPP to SRP Magnum. I'd have to do some serious digging through old hand written notes to see which brand it was though. The rest have all been under 20FPS increase. It's pretty much why I no longer care about what the label says as long as it is a small primer if I am looking/needing small primers. The only thing i'll avoid are military primers for my pistols, not every 9mm in my safe will reliably light them off. My glocks seem to though, so if i'm really desperate I can use them.

 

[Smokewagon]

Good stuff. I've used Hodgdon HP 38 in the past, which is the same as W231. I like that powder.

HP38/Win231 along with Titegroup are my two favorite pistol powders. I try and always have at least an 8lb jug of each around.

 

[kerryman71]

So there was a ~20 FPS increase with the SRPs. Wow.

I'm wondering/thinking they might run higher with coated bullets and faster burning powders. I'm much newer to this game than most of you guys, so you'd know much more on the subject than me.

 

[spt_1955]

go to any USPSA match. Out of 100 shooters, at least 10 will be using Small Rifle Primers.

I have 3K small rifle primers I will be using to reload plinking rounds. The only reason I won't use them for competition is because I don't feel like re-working a powder load for 3K rounds and then going back to a small pistol primer load.

Anyway, the SRP was a good strategy when the SPP drought started. Now both are almost impossible to find.

+1 on this. I assume that almost all of the guys shooting 38 Super Open guns are loading with small rifle primers not small pistol. I would not hesitate to load my practice ammo with any SRP if I run low on SPP however I run reduced power springs on my competition guns and stay with Federal or Fiocchi primers and avoid "hard" primers like CCI and (especially) Winchester primers to avoid light primer strikes.

 

[pentium]

Thank you all for your knowledge and thoughts on this topic. It is much appreciated.