Heard at the gun store 4885 edition (AKA NES lacks reading comprehension)

pastera

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I'm going to try to put together a series of posts that directly address misconceptions that are propagating through the Mass 2A community.
Please don't post unless you are stating something you heard that is incorrect with an explanation of why it is wrong quoting the proper sections of the bill to support your position
 
That the only acceptable barrel device is a muzzle break unless it’s a pre 94’ ASW.

From everything that I’ve read here and in the law there are not specific feature tests like the original assault weapons ban that is now overridden by 4885.
 
My son was at Bass Pro picking up a new revolver and a Traditions muzzler loader kit.
He comes home telling me that you need and LTC to possess a muzzle loader of any type now.
I also heard this same line of BS at Shooting Supply.

This is completely wrong from just a simple reading of the bill
128 SECTION 15. Section 121 of chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by inserting after the definition of “Ammunition” the following definition:-
“Antique firearm”, any firearm or replica thereof manufactured in or prior to the year 1899 if such firearm:
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or​
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade;​
provided, that “antique firearm” shall include any muzzle loading rifle, shotgun or pistol that is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and that cannot use fixed ammunition, unless the firearm:
(a) incorporates a firearm frame or receiver;​
(b) is converted into a muzzle loading firearm; or​
(c) is a muzzle loading firearm that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.​

230 “Firearm”, a stun gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, large capacity firearm, assault-style firearm and machine gun, loaded or unloaded, which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a shot or bullet; the frame or receiver of any such firearm or the unfinished frame or receiver of any such firearm; provided, however, that “firearm” shall not include any antique firearm or permanently inoperable firearm.

So an "antique firearm" is not a firearm and therefore not regulated.
projectiles and powder are a different story as they might be considered ammunition

''Ammunition'', cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term ''ammunition'' shall also mean tear gas cartridges.
So a 209 primer or standard bullet used in a sabot would be ammo. However, a bullet designed exclusively for muzzle loading is allowed
Black power or substitute is not allowed unless you are a nonresident hunter with a hunting license while hunting since it can be used in centerfire cartridges.

1293 (j) A nonresident who is at least 18 years of age may possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor: (i) to hunt during hunting season with a nonresident hunting license or a hunting license

Notice that both a standard (resident) and nonresident hunting license is called out - this is yet another error in the law. A nonresident can hunt with only a hunting license but a resident must have both an LTC/FID and a hunting license
 
That the only acceptable barrel device is a muzzle break unless it’s a pre 94’ ASW.

From everything that I’ve read here and in the law there are not specific feature tests like the original assault weapons ban that is now overridden by 4885.
There are 5 references to "muzzle" in the bill
Three refer to antique firearms and muzzle loaders

The fourth is relevant
143 “Assault-style firearm”, any firearm which is:
(a) a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with the capacity to accept a detachable feeding device and includes at least 2 of the following features:
(i) a folding or telescopic stock;​
(ii) a thumbhole stock or pistol grip; (iii) a forward grip or second handgrip or protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;​
(iv) a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor or muzzle break or similar feature; or​
(v) a shroud that encircles either all or part of the barrel designed to shield the bearer’s hand from heat, excluding a slide that encloses the barrel.​
Here the test is simply for a threaded barrel so no thread attached muzzle device is allowed

The fifth instance of muzzle is for the "accidental discharge" test where a gun under test is dropped on its muzzle.


And we are off to the ususal NES BS start - I asked to only post incorrect assumptions of the law and why those assumptions are incorrect with a 100% fail rate so far.
 
GOAL posted regarding 80% lowers that there is no mention in the new law except the term “unfinished”.

IMG_0246.jpeg

This is false. Whether 80%, 76%, or 0% (if sold as being intended to become a firearm) they are all firearms under the new law and not only are they unfinished firearms but they are also “untraceable” firearms.

When one purchased an 80% prior to 8/1/24 and still possesses it on that date it is “lawfully possessed”.
 
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GOAL posted regarding 80% lowers that there is no mention in the new law except the term “unfinished”.


This is false. Whether 80%, 76%, or 0% (if sold as being intended to become a firearm) they are all firearms under the new law and not only are they unfinished firearms but they are also “untraceable” firearms.

369 “Unfinished frame or receiver”, a forging, casting, printing, extrusion, machined body or similar item that:
(i) has reached a stage in manufacture when it may readily be completed or assembled to function as a frame or receiver; or​
(ii) is marketed or sold to the public to become or be used as the frame or receiver of a functional firearm once completed or assembled;​
provided, however, that “unfinished frame or receiver” shall not include a component designed and intended for use in an antique firearm.

It is not true that every unfinished firearms is also an untraceable firearm.
Just one example of an easily orderable serialized lower.

Before Polymer 80 shut down you could order an 80% frame with a custom serial number from some vendors
 
It is not true that every unfinished firearms is also an untraceable firearm.
Just one example of an easily orderable serialized lower.

Before Polymer 80 shut down you could order an 80% frame with a custom serial number from some vendors
Not every one and it is up to the buyer to choose to serialize.
 
GOAL posted regarding 80% lowers that there is no mention in the new law except the term “unfinished”.

View attachment 924751

This is false. Whether 80%, 76%, or 0% (if sold as being intended to become a firearm) they are all firearms under the new law and not only are they unfinished firearms but they are also “untraceable” firearms.

When one purchased an 80% prior to 8/1/24 and still possesses it on that date it is “lawfully possessed”.
GOAL's assertion that a frame or receiver for C&D must have been possessed and registered on 7/20/16 isn't supported in the bill.

We will presume that the Healy declaration had force of law for the purpose of the argument.
Until the preamble was signed, a frame or receiver was not considered a firearm, rifle or shotgun in Mass therefore it couldn't be considered to be an assault weapon.
''Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70); (iv) Colt AR–15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M–10, M–11, M–11/9 and M–12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC–9, TEC–DC9 and TEC–22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

''Firearm'', a stun gun or a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.

''Rifle'', a weapon having a rifled bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 16 inches and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

''Shotgun'', a weapon having a smooth bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 18 inches with an overall length equal to or greater than 26 inches, and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

''Weapon'', any rifle, shotgun or firearm.
So a stripped or unfinished frame/lower possessed on 8/1/24 was lawfully possessed on 8/1/24 even if was for an enumerated gun or a C&D.
Given that it was lawfully possessed on 8/1/24 when the preamble was signed it immediately became an exempt ASF.

For the purposes of this argument's assumption, the same could not be said for an assembled frame or lower which was in a fireable condition.
 
Not every one and it is up to the buyer to choose to serialize.
not relevant to my assertion - I showed that one could easily order an unfinished firearm that is serialized and therefore not an untraceable firearm
This is false. Whether 80%, 76%, or 0% (if sold as being intended to become a firearm) they are all firearms under the new law and not only are they unfinished firearms but they are also “untraceable” firearms.

When one purchased an 80% prior to 8/1/24 and still possesses it on that date it is “lawfully possessed”.

375 “Untraceable firearm”, a firearm that has not been serialized or a firearm whose serial or other identification number has been removed, defaced, altered, obliterated or mutilated in any manner.
 
It is not true that every unfinished firearms is also an untraceable firearm.
Just one example of an easily orderable serialized lower.

Before Polymer 80 shut down you could order an 80% frame with a custom serial number from some vendors
i assumed the point of the law was to ban ALL unfinished receivers. starting from this one:

1728323800816.png
 
Doesn't the old adage of the worst places to get advice on MA Gun Laws is at gun shops and from cops cover this?

And I know you just want to hear the b.s! I find it both frustrating and comical!
 
GOAL's assertion that a frame or receiver for C&D must have been possessed and registered on 7/20/16 isn't supported in the bill.

We will presume that the Healy declaration had force of law for the purpose of the argument.
Until the preamble was signed, a frame or receiver was not considered a firearm, rifle or shotgun in Mass therefore it couldn't be considered to be an assault weapon.

So a stripped or unfinished frame/lower possessed on 8/1/24 was lawfully possessed on 8/1/24 even if was for an enumerated gun or a C&D.
Given that it was lawfully possessed on 8/1/24 when the preamble was signed it immediately became an exempt ASF.

For the purposes of this argument's assumption, the same could not be said for an assembled frame or lower which was in a fireable condition.
Everyone that raced to register their stripped frames on 8/1 are going to be very upset.
 
Is there a requirement to serialize firearms in your possession even if they lawfully never had one, or only on transfer?

Asking because many older and sometimes historically significant firearms were made before there was a requirement for manufacturers to do that. Etching a sn onto such a gun would be a crime against humanity.

Setting aside of course the personally manufactured ones that never had a sn requirement.
 
Is there a requirement to serialize firearms in your possession even if they lawfully never had one, or only on transfer?

Asking because many older and sometimes historically significant firearms were made before there was a requirement for manufacturers to do that. Etching a sn onto such a gun would be a crime against humanity.

Setting aside of course the personally manufactured ones that never had a sn requirement.
The passed version of the law exempts pre-68 unserialized firearms (section 121C.g)
 
Is there a requirement to serialize firearms in your possession even if they lawfully never had one, or only on transfer?

Asking because many older and sometimes historically significant firearms were made before there was a requirement for manufacturers to do that. Etching a sn onto such a gun would be a crime against humanity.

Setting aside of course the personally manufactured ones that never had a sn requirement.
I haven't dug down for enough to say it isn't in the bill
But off the top of my head I couldn't quickly pull up and exemption for pre-68.

You cannot possess a post 68 unserialized firearm, period. I need to scour the bill or pre 68.

This was directly addressed multiple times with a large number of the scumbags to say that priceless artifacts would be destroyed if not exempt - I'm certain they think that's a good thing.
 
The passed version of the law exempts pre-68 unserialized firearms (section 121C.g)
Thanks - I knew I saw it but couldn't remember the section and finding it on the phone is a pain.

Also doesn't help that I did a 78 mile ride from horseneck to woods hole yesterday that I wasn't prepared for at all so I seriously need a day or two of rest.
 
Thanks - I knew I saw it but couldn't remember the section and finding it on the phone is a pain.

Also doesn't help that I did a 78 mile ride from horseneck to woods hole yesterday that I wasn't prepared for at all so I seriously need a day or two of rest.
It’s very easy to find keywords on a phone.

IMG_0249.png IMG_0250.png IMG_0251.png
 
And we are off to the ususal NES BS start - I asked to only post incorrect assumptions of the law and why those assumptions are incorrect with a 100% fail rate so far.

Posts on NES, generally, are head and shoulders above most other firearm related discussion boards. Arfcom was batshit insane. Reddit is reddit, with reddit people and a metric f___ton of bots.


Truly - what did you expect, throwing a requirement like this out to the world in General Discussion? 'Only talk about the stuff I want to discuss!!'

I'm only disappointed we don't have spicy memes here quite yet.
 
Posts on NES, generally, are head and shoulders above most other firearm related discussion boards. Arfcom was batshit insane. Reddit is reddit, with reddit people and a metric f___ton of bots.


Truly - what did you expect, throwing a requirement like this out to the world in General Discussion? 'Only talk about the stuff I want to discuss!!'

I'm only disappointed we don't have spicy memes here quite yet.
giphy.gif
 
Posts on NES, generally, are head and shoulders above most other firearm related discussion boards. Arfcom was batshit insane. Reddit is reddit, with reddit people and a metric f___ton of bots.


Truly - what did you expect, throwing a requirement like this out to the world in General Discussion? 'Only talk about the stuff I want to discuss!!'

I'm only disappointed we don't have spicy memes here quite yet.
Yes, because people don't want a single place where they can get information on 4885 without wading through 80% shit posts.
 
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