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Have you ever worked for an unethical person?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by blindfire, May 22, 2019.

  1. mibro

    mibro NES Member

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    Mostly true but not 100%. I researched this as some of my customers pay me by ACH transfer. A wire transfer and an ACH transfer are NOT the same thing. For wire transfers, data transmissions go directly from bank to bank. ACH transfers go through a central clearing facility in a hub and spoke configuration.

    A wire transfer is not reversible by the sender, as you say, and your bank info can not be used to pull money from your account. An ACH transfer, however, can be reversed or pulled back under some limited circumstances. Pursuant to Article Two section 2.5 of the NACHA 2006 Operating Rules, a sender who feels an ACH transfer has been sent in error can initiate a “reversing entry” to its bank to recall the erroneous entry. The NACHA rules define erroneous entries as a duplicate of a previous ACH entry, a transfer sent to the incorrect recipient or an ACH payment made in the wrong amount.

    There's a lot more fine print to an ACH reversal including a time limit of five banking days, but that's the gist of it.

    The advantage to a small business of being paid by check is the check itself is a rudimentary form of process control. When you receive the check you know you have been paid, when you deposit the check you know the money will shortly be in your account and if the check bounces your bank will tell you by mail.

    An ACH transfer is an open loop (by my definition) process. You might receive an ACH payment advice by email but someone then has to actively check the bank account to confirm the ACH transfer has actually occurred. It's easier for a deadbeat customer to slip through the cracks if they send you an ACH transfer advice but don't make the payment.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  2. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    dude, this deal smells like last weeks gas station sushi.

    Let purchasing handle the entire thing...something is fishy
     
  3. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    btw, there was just an alert that went out in the last week or two about people hacking these ach transfers. They had a crying couple on the TV, saying they sent the money for their new house to the contractor....but it never arrived. Their bank said "its not OUR problem". The contractor's bank tells them "you can not get the title until you send us the money". They are stuck....last i heard they got half of something like 100K back...the rest vanished in a millisecond
     
  4. jhblaze1

    jhblaze1

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    true, i was curios why OP said "ach info for wire transfer" as they're not the same. checks have same issue as ach though where sender can stop payment. with a wire, the sender can initiate a wire recall, but the recall is basically a message to the receiver asking for the funds back and has to be approved by the recipient. downside is wire transfers usually aren't free unless the business banking relationship is big enough, but usually you can argue for a fee waiver as the sender.
     
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  5. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    ACH - doesn't F up. Usually everything is checked before they send the $.

    Wire Transfer - "Well, the paperwork is filled out. How about we just send this here $ and see how it goes."

    Plus wire transfers often cost $. ACH/EFT/whatever is usually no-cost.


    Related story - daughter #1 works at a small bank. Someone in her branch sent a wire transfer for someone. It went into the wrong acct. The instructions were wrong. Said mistaken recipient took the $ out of the acct. It's ugly to say the least.
     
  6. Drix

    Drix

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    Your bosses were god damned monsters.

    If we're thinking of the same story this isn't quite how it went down- The purchaser was scammed via a phishing email which looked like it was from her realtor that said to wire the money to a certain account, which was fraud in the first place. They never sent the money to the contractor, they sent it to some Nigerian prince bacically. Not the banks problem- they did what they were told, and the contractor certainly isn't liable for the f***up.

    As for myself my most unethical experiences were working in retail back in the day:

    I worked for Ritz Camera in high school, they're OOB now so I can out them as being shit. In addition to routinely selling used products as new just about everything in the Fstoppers series on Ritz is absolutely true, it was the god damned wild west in those stores and hysterical.

    For a while I worked for a different company (still in business) that subcontracted cell phones. I had a boss demand via threat of termination that we upgrade peoples iphones by offering to recycle the old phone at a higher value than it was worth (say recycle a 64g phone as a 128) and then offer that credit against a phone upgrade, which we then rung at the register as a new phone for a huge discount. So essentially as a customer you'd walk in with phone 1.1, we'd give you a credit like it was a phone 1.2, sell you phone 2 which would cost say $400 on an upgrade or $100 new, and then apply phone 1.2 credit to that $100 as a new phone at the register because the subcontracted phone system didn't talk to the point of sale system. $40,000 in damages later loss prevention shows up- I'd filed a LP tip when my job was threatened, but this was "the first they heard about it" the boss was terminated with a vengeance, many of the sales team barely skirted the same fate, mostly because they upgraded their immediate family members.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  7. mibro

    mibro NES Member

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    This.

    I have direct access to the wire room at my bank. The wire transfer process is shockingly manual and lacking in process control. A successful wire transfer relies on the wire transfer agent doing keypunched data entry with 100% accuracy. Human beings just aren't capable of maintaining that level of error-free performance. I am extremely polite and pay close attention to the readbacks whenever I make a wire transfer.
     
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  8. mibro

    mibro NES Member

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    I dunno what the Nigerians call it but to me it's the piggy-in-the-middle scam.

    All it takes is to persuade one party - usually the seller - that the buyer has a new email address. It's easier if there is a conspirator at the seller - the realtor in this case - who starts the piggy-in-the-middle process. From that point on all communications go via the scammer although both parties, buyer and seller, think they're talking directly to each other.

    At the appropriate point the scammer changes the bank account for payment and the money is sent to the scammer not the seller.

    I lost $37,000 this way, though when I determined the first email to go to the scammer was sent by my vendor, the vendor ate $20,000 of the loss. I believe this scam was an inside job with one of my vendor's employees involved.

    Any change of payment account now gives me hives.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  9. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    "The worst person I ever worked for was when I was Self-Employed..."

    Lol. And he still owes me money...
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  10. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    About 20 years back I worked for an IT consulting company. That company was started by ex Big 6 guys (Anderson Consulting, Price Waterhouse, etc.). We had a job with a fortune 100 company to build an application for one of their call centers. They were receiving full rates (which was unusual because smart clients negotiated a discount). So in the mid 1990s with just a few years experience I was being billed to the client at $185 per hour.

    They had selected a rather esoteric programming language for this project. I had about 2 years of experience with that language and that made me the most experienced on site (in other words, I was hopelessly unqualified to lead this project but I was the most qualified guy they had). Out of the forty consultants that company packed into the contract, only three of us had any experience with this programming language, and none of us had any experience building a call-center application.

    It was completely clear to me how this project would end: controlled flight into terrain. I was sure that eventually the client would realize that the consulting company had pulled down their pants and bent them over a chair.

    After three months of this crap, I had enough. On the Friday before a holiday break, I packed up my belongings from the corporate apartment and flew home. After the holiday break, before I was scheduled to fly back to the client site, I called my boss and resigned.

    Sure enough, some time later the client figured out they were getting porked, threw out the consulting company, banned them from ever working with the client again, and filed a lawsuit.

    I won’t work for a company like that. Not only were their actions unethical (packing consultants into a project who don’t have the skills to contribute and who aren’t wanted by the project manager), but they were just stupid. We were burning through the client’s money but were not going to be able to deliver. Eventually the client was going to realize that the emperor had no clothes. The consulting company’s management had no plan for “and then what happens.”
     
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  11. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    What does that thing look like? Does it have like a from / to fields and then confirms the information before you press SEND ? [laugh]

    I sold a credit union a $300 leased line modem for one of those things once but I have no idea how the whole thing worked. It was a DOS system. I just knew the old one was burned out because the lights didnt come on, I found a vendor that sold refurbs and installed it, and it magically started working....

    -Mike
     
  12. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

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    If you don't mind me asking, what was the language? (Just personal curiosity.)
     
  13. swatgig

    swatgig NES Member

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    I routinely ignore payment account changes.

    Back in the 1990s, I had an account with New England Telephone, that included a $600/month yellow pages ad. I changed the name of the company and called the phone company to change the name in the phone book. They did, then sent me an invoice for the change. I explained that I didn't authorize that charge, and if they insisted, they could change it back. They told me if I didn't pay it, they'd shut off my phone service, and if I wanted it changed back, they'd charge me another fee. I ended up calling my yellow pages rep and explained that I would not renew my ad, since I could not do business with a company like that. They removed the charge.

    When they changed their name to Nynex, I sent them an invoice for $35 to change the name in my system. They never paid it, so I continued writing checks to New England Telephone. Same when they changed to Verizon. I continued writing checks to New England Telephone at the old address until I moved in 2001. They cashed every one.
     
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  14. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    That was Smalltalk (in particular VisualWorks). I loved the language but I don’t think it was a good choice for that project.
     
  15. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    Thought it was going to be Red Hat...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. blindfire

    blindfire NES Member

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    Yeah...I think I'm going to go that route now that i have had a chance to think about it. This isn't the first time this guy has done shady shit though. When we started up as a stand-alone company, we needed an online file sharing service. Well, wouldn't ya know, he was a co-founder of a file sharing company about 5 years ago. So, the company starts using that service. Well, I dug into the service when I had heard about it and found that this f*cktard is still on the board of directors for that company. CONFLICT OF INTEREST, MUCH? Guy was double dipping but our company didn't seem to have a problem with it.

    I mean...if he'd come out and said, "Hey, I founded this company and I can arrange to get a steep discount", that would have been fine, but he didn't disclose that info until I called bullshit. It's all about optics.
     
  17. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    The second "real" job I had as a teenager the company owner was pretty unethical, or at a bare minimum I would consider him a rape artist, I learned a lot about how to not
    run a business from working there. He sold his customers a lot of inadequate junk (that he could maximize his profit margins on) and by the end of the summer I had had enough of being in the middle of "that" I was so pissed off that I didn't even give him two weeks notice when I quit- I just called the office and left him a voicemail. I felt so bad for one of the customers he screwed over, that after quitting I approached them and basically poached the account, and that one account more or less started my own business. In the end game I started my career because I worked for an a**h***, so I guess I can give him credit for that.... [rofl]

    -Mike
     
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  18. whatluck

    whatluck

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    In another case, I had been subcontracted to build out ethernet in a new addition to a new client, a manufacturer of electrical components, basically an office built into warehouse space.

    My employer had never been to the site, and sent one of their consultants with me and my crew to help with the site survey.

    The situation there was a mess. There were so many blatant electrical and fire violations that I couldn't allow my crew to work in there. It was that unsafe. Exposed electrical wiring everywhere, coins in the fusebox, huge bundles of network cable hanging from NATURAL GAS PIPES, fire escapes chained up, desks on top of palettes, catwalks with no railings, hacked up sketchy af stairs, the place was a labarynth, you could easily get lost, no fire escape signs, missing fire extinguishers, extension cords EVERYWHERE, guys with 20A of equipment on a worktable working off a 16 gauge electrical cord. It was HOT, stifling hot. There was maybe 300 factory workers in there, you could tell that they weren't happy about the conditions.

    I sent my crew home and walked around and took pictures, which irritated the client to no end. 'What? I'm doing a site survey!' Taking pictures of the whole factory, not just where my work was going to be.

    I went back to my employer and put together a preliminary proposal, that the high and low voltage electrical would need to be fixed and the various fire code and osha violations would need to be dialed back a bit. I see stupid safety violations all the time, but this was so egregious that no way I could put my work to that mess without looking complicit.

    It was a 250k SqFt facility in 3 buildings. The client actually paid out something like 100 hours to do a complete proposal, it included everything from new bathrooms to new electrical, new HVAC and a plan to minimize downtime, a rolling deployment department by department matching the workflow of the company, with 1 week cold at the end to do all new plumbing. It was going to involve our consultancy, a factory process consultancy, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, HVAC guys, pneumatic guys, the alarm company, compliance people from all different orgs, 30 other data sub contractors just from my group, plus my own crew, oh, and the biggest most effective a**h*** of a GC I ever met.

    All in all they did the right thing and bit the bullet.

    We built a new data closet, for a factory that had over 3000 nodes. Sensors everywhere. I'm glad I didn't have to certify the nearly 20 miles of cable we used. A new vsphere cluster and cisco switching. A new electrical closet. every single switch and outlet in the place was replaced. Every foot of ethernet cable. I filled a whole 52 foot dumpster with old ethernet cable. The only thing we didn't touch was the sprinkler system. A new wifi system, new security cameras, new phones.

    Something magical happened. They stopped blowing power supplies for all kinds of random equipment, the building was cooler, the wifi actually worked in the warehouse, the timeclock didn't take 30 seconds to clock in each person anymore. Their safety record even improved. Less falls.

    All in all I clocked 300 hours in 30 days, paid my 4-man crew $25k, I met over 100 awesome new people, my consultancy billed over $5 million, just for data, I can't imagine what the total cost was, but I guarantee it would be less than the massive lawsuit that was just waiting. Oh, and the whole thing got done without the various entities like the zoning department, fire, osha, coming down and slapping anyone. Everyone involved just seemed happy it was getting fixed.

    I thought the client would fire us, that making such an ultimatum would get me tossed out of the client, maybe even compromise the contract with my employer. They did the right thing.
     
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  19. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    An interesting twist would be if he had advocated poaching the cash for use by the branch/office for its own devices. [laugh]

    That's gotta be a pretty dysfunctional company though. Part of my job involves the byzantine layers of fed. procurement and even they don't do shit
    like that... they will buy stuff whatever the easiest/cheapest possible way is.

    -Mike
     
  20. blindfire

    blindfire NES Member

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    Oh, I agree 100%. I think this place is a Mom and Pop joint who may not be the quickest bunnies in the yard.
    But, my point is, if we allow for that method of payment...then god damn it...don't bitch when someone takes that option. :)

    I've called my GC buddy. We'll see how it goes. I'm not long for this place anyway...got another gig lined up later this year. :)
     
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  21. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    I've experienced a number of such bosses over the years.

    I've quit a few jobs over it and in one case we (more than one of us involved) went to HR and had the boss replaced. Not long ago I shocked my ex-boss by telling him how he became our boss . . . he had no idea what his predecessor tried to do.
     
  22. sharona

    sharona

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    This
     
  23. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    Wired Away: Couple loses life savings during home purchase
    Scammers used spoofing technology to make it look like the email was coming from their real estate attorney's assistant's address.

    this scam usually involves a phishing email, where something gets intercepted, and the re-write the transfer instructions to go to a different place. By the time it is found out, the money has long since been taken out of the fake account. Often it is the lawyer (yours or the sellers) account that is compromised.
     
  24. 556USER

    556USER NES Member

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    I once worked in an IT department where the boss would use part of his yearly budget to buy computer equipment for his personal use, read take it home. He referred to this as "cash & prizes." He may even read this site. He was a gun owner like myself.
     
  25. SpencerT

    SpencerT NES Member

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    Worked as a sub contractor for a GC from 16-18yrs old. Found out he was billing me to clients at $150 an hour, was then claiming on his taxes that he paid me $100 an hour ($35 in reality).

    Got hosed in back taxes at 18yrs old. Owed like $30k, ended up being able to get it reduced to what I actually owed and he is outta business...
     
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  26. kevin9

    kevin9

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    Yes. I work for a government contractor.
    At this point in my career I'm more interested in who I work for than the actual job. A good boss can make crappy work at least tolerable. A crappy boss makes good work suck.
     
  27. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

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    Two pages, and no one has admitted working for a car dealership?
     
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  28. Shark_Cage

    Shark_Cage NES Member

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    LBJ, my favorite story about that F--K is when he went into private life, on his ranch, he would hold daily staff meetings with his heads of staff. I can see him grilling the chef like he was a general.

    To the OP, as you just learned, deal with legal and accounting before work starts, but remember Lawyers ruin everything.
     
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  29. Drix

    Drix

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    Currently working for one of the top 3 worst managers I've ever had. I love my job, and just try to keep my head down, but if I got a decent offer someplace else I'd be out in a heartbeat.
     
  30. namedpipes

    namedpipes NES Member

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    I had a boss that bought "a" copy of some software and sold it like a hundred times. It wasn't "an app" but a pretty substantial thing.

    Frying pan / fire.

    The next company, the CEO was simply addicted to spending 10's of millions in venture capital. I guess incompetence isn't technically illegal.
     

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