Hard Cast- Local Lead Source or Just Order from Roto Etc.?

[Mountain]

I have some wheel weight ingots and some flashing / soft ingots but plan to load hard cast for 10mm Auto and 44 mag. I'd cast projectiles for various purposes from what I have but for hard cast bullets from the higher power loads of the 10mm and the 44, I'd like to do it right. I won't be shooting a ton of these- just want to make a decent supply. I can make plinking loads from the wheel weight ingots.

Would there be a local and cheap source for lead + antimony & tin bearing lead in the Worcester area? Not sure if linotype can be found locally to add in for the harder brinell. If no, it would probably be cheaper for me to simply order. Hard cast bullet alloy via Roto Metals $25 for 5 lb delivered, MetalShipper $39 for 10 lbs delivered. Anyone use MetalShipper? Time plus fuel + wear and tear on the vehicle makes shipping more attractive if I can't find a local source.

Any related advice appreciated.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

I have some wheel weight ingots and some flashing / soft ingots but plan to load hard cast for 10mm Auto and 44 mag. I'd cast projectiles for various purposes from what I have but for hard cast bullets from the higher power loads of the 10mm and the 44, I'd like to do it right. I won't be shooting a ton of these- just want to make a decent supply. I can make plinking loads from the wheel weight ingots.

Would there be a local and cheap source for lead + antimony & tin bearing lead in the Worcester area? Not sure if linotype can be found locally to add in for the harder brinell. If no, it would probably be cheaper for me to simply order. Hard cast bullet alloy via Roto Metals $25 for 5 lb delivered, MetalShipper $39 for 10 lbs delivered. Anyone use MetalShipper? Time plus fuel + wear and tear on the vehicle makes shipping more attractive if I can't find a local source.

Any related advice appreciated.

Have you tried coating WW? I coat an alloy that’s basically 1.5% antimony and 1% tin and load up max loads for 357 and 44. Shot out of pistols of rifles (higher velocity) with no issues. I’ve run the same alloy recently in my Marlin 357 with carnauba red. 170 grain flat point and 13 grains of 2400 which is about book max. Works awesome. No leading. Accurate enough for my needs.

You might be surprised on what your alloy can do.

My suggestion would be to use the alloy calculator and mix a little tin in there for good measure.
If you’re coating then you won’t need anything else.
If you find that you need more hardness just water drop the bullets. COWW can harden up significantly when water dropped and aged a week or so. IIRC. You can get like 18 BHN
Just about the same as running air cooled Linotype.

 

[Mountain]

Have you tried coating WW? I coat an alloy that’s basically 1.5% antimony and 1% tin and load up max loads for 357 and 44. Shot out of pistols of rifles (higher velocity) with no issues. I’ve run the same alloy recently in my Marlin 357 with carnauba red. 170 grain flat point and 13 grains of 2400 which is about book max. Works awesome. No leading. Accurate enough for my needs.

You might be surprised on what your alloy can do.

My suggestion would be to use the alloy calculator and mix a little tin in there for good measure.
If you’re coating then you won’t need anything else.
If you find that you need more hardness just water drop the bullets. COWW can harden up significantly when water dropped and aged a week or so. IIRC. You can get like 18 BHN
Just about the same as running air cooled Linotype.

Thanks! But now that @76Too has bailed out of Wormtown, where to get those wheel weights? At least I learned from you guys how to smelt them and separate all the crap like the zinc before it melts and turns the whole batch to oatmeal.

I'm looking to make some stout 200 grain 10mm hard cast. IIRC, should be ~12 BHN or harder to be similar to the commercial loads.

I see that NOE has a nice mold for 40/10mm. Know of any other good ~200 grain molds for this? I have that Lee sizer now- thank you very much!

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Thanks! But now that @76Too has bailed out of Wormtown, where to get those wheel weights? At least I learned from you guys how to smelt them and separate all the crap like the zinc before it melts and turns the whole batch to oatmeal.

I'm looking to make some stout 200 grain 10mm hard cast. IIRC, should be ~12 BHN or harder to be similar to the commercial loads.

I see that NOE has a nice mold for 40/10mm. Know of any other good ~200 grain molds for this? I have that Lee sizer now- thank you very much!

Look for local scrap yards. Or tire shops that are out in the sticks. Might as well call all of them really.
MP makes amazing moulds too.

 

[pastera]

Missouri Bullet Company

Missouri Bullet Company offers premium lead bullets at affordable prices. We make hardness optimized bullets for the velocity of the loads you shoot.

missouribullet.com

Coated and lubed covers a lot of hardness sin - I've done it for 9mm and 357 but not 44 or 10mm

If you are in the Taunton area, I have 46 rounds of 10mm that were given to me. Looks like factory but I don't know other than inspection looks like it is factory.
Headstamp is Underwood, Nickel plated, JHP (looks like XTP)

 

[greencobra]

Not sure if linotype can be found locally to add in for the harder brinell.

i have linotype, 1 lb ingots cast from a virgin printers bar. i'll send you a couple pounds if you pick up shipping, or more if you need it. i have ~25#'s. maybe i can meet you somewhere, where are you located. send me a pm. not driving a crazy distance though.

 

[Mountain]

Missouri Bullet Company

Missouri Bullet Company offers premium lead bullets at affordable prices. We make hardness optimized bullets for the velocity of the loads you shoot.

missouribullet.com

Coated and lubed covers a lot of hardness sin - I've done it for 9mm and 357 but not 44 or 10mm

If you are in the Taunton area, I have 46 rounds of 10mm that were given to me. Looks like factory but I don't know other than inspection looks like it is factory.
Headstamp is Underwood, Nickel plated, JHP (looks like XTP)

Awesome- I'm NW of Worcester. I'll give you a head's up if I'm going to be in your area and hopefully can be at a time that's convenient for you. If you find a home for them in the meantime no problema.

i have linotype, 1 lb ingots cast from a virgin printers bar. i'll send you a couple pounds if you pick up shipping, or more if you need it. i have ~25#'s. maybe i can meet you somewhere, where are you located. send me a pm. not driving a crazy distance though.

I'm guessing I'm not close. Very nice offer and I'd be glad to pay for shipping or meet sometime when it's not a PITA for you. Before I trouble you for the lino I'm going to check the Worcester area and see what's available. Per Mr. Spangler looks like I can do fine with water quenched WW lead, but I'll want to get more WW if I'm casting big 200 grain rounds.

 

[greencobra]

I'm going to check the Worcester area and see what's available.

ok. if you need it we'll still be here.

 

[mac1911]

I have some wheel weight ingots and some flashing / soft ingots but plan to load hard cast for 10mm Auto and 44 mag. I'd cast projectiles for various purposes from what I have but for hard cast bullets from the higher power loads of the 10mm and the 44, I'd like to do it right. I won't be shooting a ton of these- just want to make a decent supply. I can make plinking loads from the wheel weight ingots.

Would there be a local and cheap source for lead + antimony & tin bearing lead in the Worcester area? Not sure if linotype can be found locally to add in for the harder brinell. If no, it would probably be cheaper for me to simply order. Hard cast bullet alloy via Roto Metals $25 for 5 lb delivered, MetalShipper $39 for 10 lbs delivered. Anyone use MetalShipper? Time plus fuel + wear and tear on the vehicle makes shipping more attractive if I can't find a local source.

Any related advice appreciated.

I dont think you need really hard cast for 10mm or even 357/44 ect.
The commercial casters use hard alloy because it works well in the casting machines and will not get as banged up during shipping. Same with lube. Commercial casters love the hard lubes because they stay in place during shipping.
Go look through through the bullets at berm. You will find cast bullets that are darn near intact lube and all....
You could water quench your WW alloy
As long as your bullet is the correct size I clip on wheel weight alloy should be fine. Only time I would go harder alloy in my auto loaders is if my bullet design is getting deformed during cycling.
My 230 gn lee round nose bullet casted with known 8bhn alloy gets a good "dent" during chambering and after few hundred rounds will leave lead on the feed ramp. Im not so sure how hard of a alloy would be needed , I now only shoot wad cutters out of my 1911 and thats scrap lead.
Roto metals has some good deals sometimes. If I had the money or group buy i would snag 1000lbs of their recycled lead. Thats about right for everything i need. Was $1.49/lb shipped @ 1000lb pallet. i would not need to worry about lead forevah!

 

[Mountain]

I dont think you need really hard cast for 10mm or even 357/44 ect.
The commercial casters use hard alloy because it works well in the casting machines and will not get as banged up during shipping. Same with lube. Commercial casters love the hard lubes because they stay in place during shipping.
Go look through through the bullets at berm. You will find cast bullets that are darn near intact lube and all....
You could water quench your WW alloy
As long as your bullet is the correct size I clip on wheel weight alloy should be fine. Only time I would go harder alloy in my auto loaders is if my bullet design is getting deformed during cycling.
My 230 gn lee round nose bullet casted with known 8bhn alloy gets a good "dent" during chambering and after few hundred rounds will leave lead on the feed ramp. Im not so sure how hard of a alloy would be needed , I now only shoot wad cutters out of my 1911 and thats scrap lead.
Roto metals has some good deals sometimes. If I had the money or group buy i would snag 1000lbs of their recycled lead. Thats about right for everything i need. Was $1.49/lb shipped @ 1000lb pallet. i would not need to worry about lead forevah!

One of the reasons I want hard cast is terminal performance, not just what it does in the bore. Since I'm looking at the big heavies, the fps won't be smoking fast. Essentially wanting to make a Buffalo Bore clone. For the G20 and Delta Elite, general plinking rounds will be 180's. From the Mr. T / TrashcanDan karma I have what feels like 10 lbs of 180 TC type cast- might be commercially sourced and they look pretty good. Those will keep me busy for a while. I have a KKM barrel (normal grooves, fully supported case) on the way and already have a stainless guide rod and 21 lb spring for shooting the hot 10mm loads in the G20.

 

[TrashcanDan]

I have some wheel weight ingots and some flashing / soft ingots but plan to load hard cast for 10mm Auto and 44 mag. I'd cast projectiles for various purposes from what I have but for hard cast bullets from the higher power loads of the 10mm and the 44, I'd like to do it right.

Any related advice appreciated.

For high velocity (and pressure) rounds like that, if you're going for jacketed velocity, might want to consider gas checking them.
I don't have a book infront of me, but whats the chamber pressure on 180 or 200 gr lead hot loads?

Thanks! But now that @76Too has bailed out of Wormtown, where to get those wheel weights?

I might be able to help out with that too.
I still have to sort the bucket, but can probably part with an akro-bin (or two) of dirty w.w.'s.

 

[mac1911]

One of the reasons I want hard cast is terminal performance, not just what it does in the bore. Since I'm looking at the big heavies, the fps won't be smoking fast. Essentially wanting to make a Buffalo Bore clone. For the G20 and Delta Elite, general plinking rounds will be 180's. From the Mr. T / TrashcanDan karma I have what feels like 10 lbs of 180 TC type cast- might be commercially sourced and they look pretty good. Those will keep me busy for a while. I have a KKM barrel (normal grooves, fully supported case) on the way and already have a stainless guide rod and 21 lb spring for shooting the hot 10mm loads in the G20.

you cant run cast in a glock!
Any how I dont think you need really hard alloy.
wheel weight should do well up to 1500ps or so with correct size and lube with out a gas check .
Alloy wont matter much if it does not fit well.
i have zero experience with the shallow rifling of the glocks. I know they dont always play well together.

 

[mac1911]

For high velocity (and pressure) rounds like that, if you're going for jacketed velocity, might want to consider gas checking them.
I don't have a book infront of me, but whats the chamber pressure on 180 or 200 gr lead hot loads?



I might be able to help out with that too.
I still have to sort the bucket, but can probably part with an akro-bin (or two) of dirty w.w.'s.

200 gn fmj at 1000fps going to run 32-35k psi ?

 

[TrashcanDan]

200 gn fmj at 1000fps going to run 32-35k psi ?

Yepper. I think some of the hot jacketed loads can go as high as 40K, but that might be for 165 0r 180?
I want to say the higher end cast 10mm loads run (pressure wise) as much as 9mm jacketed?
I'm working off of memory and a dented brain group housing, so bear with me

 

[Mountain]

For high velocity (and pressure) rounds like that, if you're going for jacketed velocity, might want to consider gas checking them.
I don't have a book infront of me, but whats the chamber pressure on 180 or 200 gr lead hot loads?



I might be able to help out with that too.
I still have to sort the bucket, but can probably part with an akro-bin (or two) of dirty w.w.'s.

You know what, I goofed on that part of the karma. Must have been thinking about the bench. I refinished the top and sides- almost a shame to drill into that giant butcher block plank. LOL one of my kids is a huge former football lineman and I got a kick out of him bitching about the weight when we moved that top into the walk-in basement.

Bullets etc. came from Mr. T then Buck Faker. I'll have a nice setup once done.

I'm going to use moderate loads for 180's. I was thinking about gas checks for the 200 hot loads but might not be necessary, just need a good lube.

you cant run cast in a glock!
Any how I dont think you need really hard alloy.
wheel weight should do well up to 1500ps or so with correct size and lube with out a gas check .
Alloy wont matter much if it does not fit well.
i have zero experience with the shallow rifling of the glocks. I know they dont always play well together.

Yeah, I know- that Glock's gonna explode with all that cast in it! The KKM barrel has normal rifling and better chamber support so all the Glock worries go out the window. Regardless, you are correct regarding fit. The feedback I've seen from folks who actually have experience is that fit is key and the polygonal Glock rifling is fine for cast if the proj's fit and are properly lubed.

 

[TrashcanDan]

The feedback I've seen from folks who actually have experience is that fit is key and the polygonal Glock rifling is fine for cast if the proj's fit and are properly lubed.

Bingo!
Pushing it on the hot side causes skidding, so theres that.
And the ones that had the barrels blow up, also tried to go a thousand rounds between cleanings. I think H.K. had a pistol with similar rifling in their barrel.
They work fine on the "slow and low" side of things.

 

[Mountain]

Bingo!
Pushing it on the hot side causes skidding, so theres that.
And the ones that had the barrels blow up, also tried to go a thousand rounds between cleanings. I think H.K. had a pistol with similar rifling in their barrel.
They work fine on the "slow and low" side of things.

I don't know about other HK's but the USP's have polygonal rifling.

 

[TrashcanDan]

Pullin from Ye Olde Trusty Lymans cast book...........................
So it looks like 10mm calls for 10:1 alloy in 180 and 200 g, which clocks in @ 11.5 bhn with pressure between 28-29,000
Wheel weights are at about 9bhn , so that might cut it providing you're not trying for max or compressed loads.
You might find some good stuff here-

10mm/40 Caliber

.44 calls for linotype or #2 depending. So theres your hardcast.
More load data out there for this than .357 (but not by much), so have at it

Theres some guy around here that shoot .44 mags out of his fancy-schmancy Dan Wesson (OOOOOOOOO look at me, I have a Dan Wesson) goes by the name of @andrew1220 somethin or other.
I'm willin to bet he'd part with some of his recipes.

 

[DW357]

Theres some guy around here that shoot .44 mags out of his fancy-schmancy Dan Wesson (OOOOOOOOO look at me, I have a Dan Wesson) goes by the name of @andrew1220 somethin or other.
I'm willin to bet he'd part with some of his recipes.

My dan's are on a strict jacketed and coated bullet diet...
That being said, ~23 gr of H110 under a 240 grain JSP/JHP

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Pullin from Ye Olde Trusty Lymans cast book...........................
So it looks like 10mm calls for 10:1 alloy in 180 and 200 g, which clocks in @ 11.5 bhn with pressure between 28-29,000
Wheel weights are at about 9bhn , so that might cut it providing you're not trying for max or compressed loads.
You might find some good stuff here-

10mm/40 Caliber

.44 calls for linotype or #2 depending. So theres your hardcast.
More load data out there for this than .357 (but not by much), so have at it

Theres some guy around here that shoot .44 mags out of his fancy-schmancy Dan Wesson (OOOOOOOOO look at me, I have a Dan Wesson) goes by the name of @andrew1220 somethin or other.
I'm willin to bet he'd part with some of his recipes.

That dude is way too fancy to cast his own.

 

[DW357]

That dude is way too fancy to cast his own.

 

[mac1911]

You know what, I goofed on that part of the karma. Must have been thinking about the bench. I refinished the top and sides- almost a shame to drill into that giant butcher block plank. LOL one of my kids is a huge former football lineman and I got a kick out of him bitching about the weight when we moved that top into the walk-in basement.

Bullets etc. came from Mr. T then Buck Faker. I'll have a nice setup once done.

I'm going to use moderate loads for 180's. I was thinking about gas checks for the 200 hot loads but might not be necessary, just need a good lube.




Yeah, I know- that Glock's gonna explode with all that cast in it! The KKM barrel has normal rifling and better chamber support so all the Glock worries go out the window. Regardless, you are correct regarding fit. The feedback I've seen from folks who actually have experience is that fit is key and the polygonal Glock rifling is fine for cast if the proj's fit and are properly lubed.

this stuff is around 15bhn and you could water or heat harden it bit more

Pallet Hardball Bullet Alloy Ingots 1000 pounds Freight Included 2%-Tin,6%-Antimony,and 92%-Lead

[email protected]

www.rotometals.com

 

[Broc]

Mountain, if you end up buying online, check out Buffalo Arms Company. Their prices are usually better than Roto.

I have ordered 20:1 from them several times.

 

[Broc]

this stuff is around 15bhn and you could water or heat harden it bit more

Pallet Hardball Bullet Alloy Ingots 1000 pounds Freight Included 2%-Tin,6%-Antimony,and 92%-Lead

[email protected]

www.rotometals.com

I think that is expensive. A few months back I was getting quotes from places to have several thousand pounds shipped and I think it was a lot cheaper than that. Roto does not have good deals.

I need to go back and read all the back and forth.

I was going to do a lead group buy, but I didnt think NES members would go for it.

 

[Arto]

Just up the street (in Stoneham? or maybe NH now?)

Lead Reloading Bullets | Product Information

Reloads N’ More - Once fired Reloadable Brass and Hardcast Lead Reloading Bullets: 9 mm, .38, .38, .38, .38, .38, 10mm, .44, .44, .45, .45, .45, .45, .45, .45, .45-70, .50 caliber

www.reloadsnmore.com

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

I think that is expensive. A few months back I was getting quotes from places to have several thousand pounds shipped and I think it was a lot cheaper than that. Roto does not have good deals.

I need to go back and read all the back and forth.

I was going to do a lead group buy, but I didnt think NES members would go for it.

Hell if the prices are good just post a feeler. Might be able to get her done

 

[Mountain]

Hell if the prices are good just post a feeler. Might be able to get her done

And do it before I stock up, LOL. Actually it looks like Buffalo might be out of stock on a lot of items.

I should have some time tomorrow to call around for WW lead or perhaps something from the scrap dealers.

 

[Broc]

These are the prices I got in December from Mayco Industries. They started high, I beat them down a little. The prices are delivered to Westford, MA.

I added to the quote one of our most common alloy for bullet casting it the Tri Bar (2%Sb/6%Sb/92%Pb). A lot of bullet casters love this alloy.

Let me what you think.

Call me if you have any questions

Have a good weekend

Quote:

• 5000# Pigs With Ears – $1.47 delivered
• 5000# 2-1 Tri Bar (5%Sn/95%Pb) $2.52 delivered
• 5000# Tri Bar (2%Sb/6%Sb/92%Pb) $1.77 delivered

if we can get 10 members to buy 500# each or 20 to buy 250#, then it is doable. I didnt think there are that many NES members that want to drop a few hundred into lead.

With the way the economy is now, I could probably get them to honor that price or maybe even go lower. Or it could be the other way with every bullet manufacturer ordering lead.

 

[mac1911]

These are the prices I got in December from Mayco Industries. They started high, I beat them down a little. The prices are delivered to Westford, MA.



if we can get 10 members to buy 500# each or 20 to buy 250#, then it is doable. I didnt think there are that many NES members that want to drop a few hundred into lead.

With the way the economy is now, I could probably get them to honor that price or maybe even go lower. Or it could be the other way with every bullet manufacturer ordering lead.

Depends how far have to drive to meet up to pick up. @ 1.77lb shipped for hardball thats decent. Although im sure if you call roto and ask for a better price on 5000lbs they might bend.
Right now my cash is wearing thing and i dont "need" more lead.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Depends how far have to drive to meet up to pick up. @ 1.77lb shipped for hardball thats decent. Although im sure if you call roto and ask for a better price on 5000lbs they might bend.
Right now my cash is wearing thing and i dont "need" more lead.

I always need more lead. I get a few hundred pounds and it just doesn’t seem to last.
I would like to be sitting on 500# more than I have. It would make it so I don’t have to scrounge for a while.