hand to hand fighting

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Ill definitely be able to walk around waving my arms in the air at 70... I suspect Ill be able to dance around with a ribbon clad sword if I was so inclined too. Explained to me what they are DOING that you are so amazed with.
Ok, what I was referring to wasn't walking around waving arms or dancing with ribbons at 70, but I think you know that. What I was referring to is being able to fight in the way you do now. At this point, I'm tapping out of this discussion since you clearly know everything about this subject and have nothing to learn from anyone else. Best of luck to you.
 
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So, we know Newtons second Law states Force= Mass X Accelleration. This "Chi" power everyone is all wrapped around the axel about is called Fah Jing. There are volumes of books about how you cultivate chi, and convert it into jing and other matters. The western way of thinking, is that to throw a solid punch, I need to accelerate the mass of my fist through the empty space between me and my target. Internal martial arts would have you generate all that acceleration within your body, assuming your fist/palm/shoulder/head was already in contact with the target. That's how you can deliver these 1" and 0" strikes. If somebody who is good at this stuff weighs 100 lbs, they should be able to deliver at least a full 100lbs of force spread over the area they are striking you with. If they are hitting you with just a single knuckle 1/2" of surface area, image a 200lb weight being momentarily place on your chest. Now imagine if they weigh 200lbs and they add the velocity of a half or full step to that same strike.
Overall this is a very good summary of the physics involved, at least from our Western perspective. The main point is that using terminology like chi, fa jing, etc., makes people who are ignorant to this subject assume it's mysticism or other bullshit, hence all of the comments about lightning bolts and laser beams that have come up. Whether or not one can try to explain it using a physics comparison like you did though, doesn't mean that they can actually do it though. Even those capable of demonstrating it have varying levels of skill.
 
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Overall this is a very good summary of the physics involved, at least from our Western perspective. The main point is that using terminology like chi, fa jing, etc., makes people who are ignorant to this subject assume it's mysticism or other bullshit, hence all of the comments about lightning bolts and laser beams that have come up. Whether or not one can try to explain it using a physics comparison like you did though, doesn't mean that they can actually do it though. Even those capable of demonstrating it have varying levels of skill.
That is actually a terrible summary of the physics involved. On so many levels.
 
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Most intimidating day, was the first day of walking into my BJJ school.

However, I've never met a more welcoming culture. It's not like walking into the Cobra Kai dojo, it's more like, "Hey man, welcome! Everyone is here to learn, and anyone who acts like a dick is asked to leave." Everyone wants to help everyone else out. It's shocking how awesome the culture is.

So to answer your question, VERY accommodating and accepting.
I agree 100%. My first BJJ class was intimidating and the first lesson is humility. If you can't be humble you won't last. I've been training for almost three years, and while I can destroy newbies regardless of size or age(I’m 51, 170lbs), I get my ass handed to me regularly by more senior students. It's never been anything but good natured. There is some competitiveness, especially among the close friends at the gym, but always friendly. The people at my gym have become my circle of friends and I see them as a second family.

If anyone is interested, my gym is in Nashua. The owner will let you train for a week or two for free to see if you like it. The owner is also the chief defensive tactics instructor at SIG. His BJJ has a great lineage, which is important in BJJ. My instructor John Fain, under Roberto Mia, under Carlos Gracie JR.
http://teamtriumphbjj.com/
 
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hand to hand is nice, but when travon has you in a ground and pound, i think you need to transition to a blade, not everyone is a zimmerman that can draw and fire like that.
With minimal BJJ training Trayvon would never have achieved the mount or at least wouldn't maintain it very long.
 
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I used to think exactly like you until I had the pleasure of training with true masters and not American wannabe martial artists. Like I said, I was a really good fighter, or so I thought, until I felt what true power is, and it had nothing to do with physical size or strength, because I had plenty of that too. My whole life revolved around training, sparring, and working out in general for a solid decade before I had the resources and abilities to be train with some truly exceptional masters. You can call it hocus pocus, or whatever because you haven't felt it. As with most things in life, there are people that can fight, and then there are people that are masters of their art.
There are more than a few videos out there that show these "masters" getting curb stomped by someone with only a few years MMA.
 
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Not that it matters, but I'm curious... how old are you? I'm not going to debate/defend something that you clearly have no experience with, or understanding of, but there have been only 3 people whom I have ever sparred with/ trained with that were capable of manifesting that "hokus pocus", "mystical power", or whatever other patronizing terms you can think of. As to your question, every one of these masters had multiple competitions under their belts in places such as Japan, Thailand, Taiwan, etc. in venues that don't have "rules" such as we have here for competitions. The only way for someone such as yourself to be convinced would be to attend a training seminar with someone such as Bok Nam Park (a very skilled Bagua master) and ask to spar with him. I've seen many fighters more skilled than I try.[laugh]
Kumite type competitions are a myth seen only in movies. One hucus pocus master competing against another hocus pocus master does not validate the style. Two girls get in a slap fight someone will still likely win the encounter. That doesn't mean I'll take up girl slap fighting.
 
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Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of charlatans and cult leaders in the traditional and hybrid martial arts world, but be warned, they are creeping into the MMA/BJJ world too.
And when the students of those schools compete, they lose, and it reveals the poor quality training they received.
 
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Effective striking is fine. What do you do with multiple attackers? What's your strategy? What if one or several are better Thai boxers or grapplers than you are? What if one (or more) has a blade? What if you're a 110 pound female? (Or a clumsy 165 pound SpaceCritter?) You'd better have more tools than just the guard and a healthy Thai round kick.
There is no magic answer. There are more effective styles that others, but none will make you a Jedi-force-using-killer. People with real experience tried to answer the OP's question. Those answers hurt the ego of some that have spent countless hours and dollars on an art that is useless in a confrontation. Though, I didn't see anyone say their style would defeat all attackers in all situations.

If you're happy just carrying a gun, then good luck. Not all physical confrontations justify using a firearm. You may walk away, but you will likely end up in prison.
 
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Combat arts (including the Filipino arts) train multi-man. And yes, I know people who have pulled it off.

Of course you do.[rolleyes]

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It can, but she's going to need more than jab-cross, Thai round kicks, double-leg takedowns, the guard and breaking it, ...
What do you suggest? Krav Maga eye plucking? How many eyes do they pluck out in training?
 
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I agree 100%. My first BJJ class was intimidating and the first lesson is humility. If you can't be humble you won't last. I've been training for almost three years, and while I can destroy newbies regardless of size or age(I’m 51, 170lbs), I get my ass handed to me regularly by more senior students. It's never been anything but good natured. There is some competitiveness, especially among the close friends at the gym, but always friendly. The people at my gym have become my circle of friends and I see them as a second family.

If anyone is interested, my gym is in Nashua. The owner will let you train for a week or two for free to see if you like it. The owner is also the chief defensive tactics instructor at SIG. His BJJ has a great lineage, which is important in BJJ. My instructor John Fain, under Roberto Mia, under Carlos Gracie JR.
http://teamtriumphbjj.com/
That's where I train as well! Great school.

You put it very well. Very easy to destroy noobs at 3+ years, just goes to show how much people don't know about grappling. My former instructor put it like this once- "The mat is the ocean, and you're a shark. Most people, have no idea how to swim."

I rolled with John yesterday morning during class... Literally felt like I was being mauled by a polar bear.

THAT is the kind of power I want.
 
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Ditto. And I sent an email to Worcester MMA about the free trial, so thank you for the heads up.

At the end of the day, I just want an edge. In my comfortable rural life where confrontations sometimes occur, but its limited to chest puffing and liberal sprinklings of profanity, I just want to be prepared for it should things ever go sideways. Having grown up in Boston, I've had my share of ass kickings and delivered a few as a kid (always in self defense or my dad would have kicked mine), I know what it is to take a punch....from what I've known of those who train in martial arts, its a mindset that is developed, much like the situational awareness so often preached amongst the armed population.

I hope never to use a gun in a fight. I hope now at 39, never to BE in a fight, but being prepared to do both and knowing when to deploy what I call Duke Nukem mode, is what I'm after now.

That's where I train as well! Great school.

You put it very well. Very easy to destroy noobs at 3+ years, just goes to show how much people don't know about grappling. My former instructor put it like this once- "The mat is the ocean, and you're a shark. Most people, have no idea how to swim."

I rolled with John yesterday morning during class... Literally felt like I was being mauled by a polar bear.

THAT is the kind of power I want.
 
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I think it's possible to avoid 99% of trouble - it's the remaining 1% that can pose a problem. I think it's also not a bad idea to have some form of hand to hand in one's quiver as one never knows. Michael de Bethencourt's defensive folding knife (for LTC holders) is phenomenal, IMHO. Good luck to all.
 
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That's where I train as well! Great school.

You put it very well. Very easy to destroy noobs at 3+ years, just goes to show how much people don't know about grappling. My former instructor put it like this once- "The mat is the ocean, and you're a shark. Most people, have no idea how to swim."

I rolled with John yesterday morning during class... Literally felt like I was being mauled by a polar bear.

THAT is the kind of power I want.
I must know you. I usually train Mon, Wed, and Fri mornings. I had hernia surgery last Wednesday and I'm out of BJJ for four weeks. You must have rolled with my son, Paul jr, yesterday. I think you nearly got him with an ezechial (spelling).
 
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There are more than a few videos out there that show these "masters" getting curb stomped by someone with only a few years MMA.
Of course there is. How many "true" traditional masters do you believe put themselves on youtube? I suppose you are the type that believes everything someone like Michael Moore puts in his "documentary" films too, right? Because no one can make a movie with a spin or slant in their favor, right? Look, I'm not in any way trying to diminish the effectiveness of BJJ, Krav, etc., but I do believe it's very ignorant to believe that a) any of those are the be all, end all, or that b) other things don't exist, or aren't possible just because you haven't seen it done, or it isn't on youtube. Great discussion, or at least it started that way, but like everything on NES it has gone the way of full retard circle jerk, so I'm tapping out at this point.

Oh yeah, one last thought... for those of you that believe TMA is not an effective method of combat just because you haven't seen high levels in competition at octagon events here in the states, you may want to ask yourself a question... Why would these "useless techniques" that were employed in battles of mostly hand to hand, cavalry, and bladed weapons have survived centuries if they didn't actually work in real combat? The answer is pretty basic to me. We live in a fast food nation of instant gratification, where people aren't willing to devote their lives to mastering ANYTHING, and quite frankly our lifestyles don't really allow for it anyway. With the popularity of MA movies starting in the 70's through today, it just created a market for schools to open and teach things that appear to be authentic since they have the movements, but lack true martial application and knowledge. To use a familiar analogy, you can build an AR-15 that looks virtually identical to a military M4, M16, etc., but that doesn't mean it IS one.
 
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I trained Muay Thai for a little over a year and really loved it. The sparring was a little too hard for someone who makes his living with his head, though, unfortunately. I also needed to do a separate cardio program to maintain the overall fitness I needed to train, and I just did not have the extra time and energy. Muay Thai can really take a lot out of you...injuries were a constant.

I think the overall toughness Muay Thai cultivates is good for practical fighting. It's not going to teach you how to take a gun or knife away from someone, but it will definitely get you fit and dramatically increase your confidence. You can certainly use BJJ on the street, but most street fights are going to be a couple of big winging punches and its over. Kicking someone creates problems in MA, but it will certainly end a fight like that pretty quickly.

I would kill to train again but I have back problems now. Hopefully I can recover enough from this to do boxing or Muay Thai again. I can't go back to hard sparring again, as much as I enjoyed it, but I would love to improve the skills I started to learn.
 
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I must know you. I usually train Mon, Wed, and Fri mornings. I had hernia surgery last Wednesday and I'm out of BJJ for four weeks. You must have rolled with my son, Paul jr, yesterday. I think you nearly got him with an ezechial (spelling).
He's a one stripe blue belt, correct? I had two fingers in, couldn't finish it. My third slipped out when I applied it! Lol...

...then he nails ME with an Ezekiel! Haha!

I try and get there in the mornings during the week, but I usually end up there Saturday and Sunday mornings for the 10am class.
 
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Of course there is. How many "true" traditional masters do you believe put themselves on youtube? I suppose you are the type that believes everything someone like Michael Moore puts in his "documentary" films too, right?
Weird how there's never been even one "true master" that wanted to showcase the effectiveness of his art. I never said TMA can't be effective. There's just better out there. Someone with only karate or tae kwon do will likely do better against an opponent with no training. Even if that training only added confidence they lacked prior to training.

In true NES fashion someone with an opposing opinion gets compared to anti-gunners like those that watch Michael Moore films.

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He's a one stripe blue belt, correct? I had two fingers in, couldn't finish it. My third slipped out when I applied it! Lol...

...then he nails ME with an Ezekiel! Haha!

I try and get there in the mornings during the week, but I usually end up there Saturday and Sunday mornings for the 10am class.
An Ezekiel is Paul's go to move.

Though my groin is still really screwed up I'll probably be by tomorrow morning to talk to John. Ryan, right?
 
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Weird how there's never been even one "true master" that wanted to showcase the effectiveness of his art. I never said TMA can't be effective. There's just better out there. Someone with only karate or tae kwon do will likely do better against an opponent with no training. Even if that training only added confidence they lacked prior to training.

In true NES fashion someone with an opposing opinion gets compared to anti-gunners like those that watch Michael Moore films.

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An Ezekiel is Paul's go to move.

Though my groin is still really screwed up I'll probably be by tomorrow morning to talk to John. Ryan, right?
I actually used Michael Moore as an example not to paint you as an anti, but simply because he was the first to pop into my head to illustrate my example. I don't have a good explanation for "why" the old masters choose not to showcase exhibitions of skill on youtube, other than just assuming that they are simply too old at this point to effectively compete with a 20's, or 30's competitive fighter. There reaches a point when we all age out of that game, no matter how skilled we "were" at one time, which is why I carry a gun these days rather than scrap on the street as I once enjoyed. Things like family, occupation, etc. take precedence over proving to be a tough guy at some point. Not saying I can't hold my own for being 47 years old, but I'm certainly not foolish enough to engage with anyone who currently trains as avidly as I once did! The guys that I referred to as old masters were already at least in their 60's 20 years ago! I'm not sure how old Park currently is, but I can tell you that he was at least in his 50's back in the late 90's, and some of the others were in their mid 70's back then. Just the fact that they could/would go toe to toe with a young, cocky bastard like myself at the time impressed me enough to change my thinking entirely about internal versus external training, especially as we age. Sure, a guy such as MMArtist can be a bit cocky now because he is somewhat in his prime, but I don't believe he is foolish enough to think he will be able to step into the ring with a fighter of his current level when he is 20, or 30 years older than he is now!
 
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I don't have a good explanation for "why" the old masters choose not to showcase exhibitions of skill on youtube, other than just assuming that they are simply too old at this point to effectively compete with a 20's, or 30's competitive fighter.
Helio gracie rolling at 91 years old.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQmz1YDVt3cI read of a blue belt that was 91. That guy probably didn't start training until his very late 80's.

I'm not saying that Helio, were he still alive, could compete with a young BJJ black belt, but with the proper training and a desire to maintain some kind of fitness, a much older person could effective defend themselves against an untrained attacker. Most thugs are untrained or under the influence. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure the OP's intent is to learn something for unarmed self defense, not competition.
 
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Helio gracie rolling at 91 years old. I read of a blue belt that was 91. That guy probably didn't start training until his very late 80's.

I'm not saying that Helio, were he still alive, could compete with a young BJJ black belt, but with the proper training and a desire to maintain some kind of fitness, a much older person could effective defend themselves against an untrained attacker. Most thugs are untrained or under the influence. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure the OP's intent is to learn something for unarmed self defense, not competition.
Absolutely based on what I read, that is the OPs intent. Not quite sure how/when/or why the thread devolved into a pissing contest of what style is best to compete with in the octagon, but in true NES fashion it turned into sort of a train wreck WAY off from where it started. Either way most of it was a good discussion and hopefully the OP was able to pick up some info he didn't have before.
 
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