SpaceCritter
NES Member
Well, by your logic Mr. Tomasie would have to shoot a bunch of people to be sure it worked!
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hand to hand fighting
- Thread starter AngelKing
- Start date
Well, by your logic Mr. Tomasie would have to shoot a bunch of people to be sure it worked!
Well, by your logic Mr. Tomasie would have to shoot a bunch of people to be sure it worked!
i don't understand your comment.. He competes, and proves he is one of the best.. against the best.
You drill fake moves, conjur fireballs made of mystical chi, dance around a stage, and make excuses as to why you can't compete.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
I don't need to be one of the best. I need to get home in one piece... as do most people.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of charlatans and cult leaders in the traditional and hybrid martial arts world, but be warned, they are creeping into the MMA/BJJ world too. Wherever there is money to be made, the BS artists will set up shop. Unfortunately, New England is ground zero for this crap.
Dude, I just looked you up, and you seem to have the goods to back you up. If you didn't come across as such a douchecoozie, people might not dismiss you. Lighten up.
There are plenty in MMA or real combative sports yes.. the difference they don't last long. Their students fight/compete and they get trounced.. the gym closes shortly after cause everyone going there realizes they can't break an egg.
In TMAs they don't do anything but dance and talk so these guys turn out 400 black belts, end up in Martial Arts magazine and guys like you are name dropping them like they can actually fight.
You should attempt to be the best with the time and tools you have available to you. Wherever you end up in between the best and the worst is still better than shooting for mediocre.
And I get it.. your old, busy, out of shape, married with kids.. whatever. That's all the reason more you shouldn't waste your time with ineffective and unproven systems.
Fake martial arts is a sensitive topic. And scamming people out of their time and money is not alright. Especially when that person might try to defend themselves or their family with it someday. If someone was asking about carrying a gun for defense and everyone was suggesting a rape whistle you'd be losing your shit. This is no different.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
What is effective for a professional athlete in the octagon isn't necessarily effective for a non-professional athlete on the street. The system that works well under the former circumstances doesn't necessarily do so under the latter.
I get that, similar to shitty firearms trainers. I can't really compare the two totally since I'm completely ignorant of martial arts, I suspect there're some parallels.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
If someone was asking about carrying a gun for defense and someone suggested a competition target rifle, we'd be losing our shit as well.
Just imagine you dropped $300 on a combative pistol course and they taught you how to Salsa dance, and then ontop of that people like Spacecritter where telling all their friends they found a great firearms class and they should go. Its exactly like that.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
Just imagine you dropped $300 on a combative pistol course and they taught you instead how to hit paper targets at a hundred yards.
How would it not be effective? You may not be as proficient with the strike or submission but it works in a real world application, there are countless hours of actual fights showing this.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
...but not better than an actual combative pistol course.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
Because I'm not interested in getting an assailant - let along a throng of "teens" - to submit. I'm interested in doing the very same thing I'd do with a gun: ending the threat against me or a loved one. Doing so may - and likely will - require the attacker(s) incurring life-changing, or life-ending, injuries, just as would be the case if I pulled the pistol.
That is true, but like one of the coaches at my gym says, "everyone thinks they are 500% better fighters in their minds than they actually are" I used to think I was capable, that I could handle myself. Since training and learning Muay Thai and other MMA forms, boy.....was I freakin wrong. Learning how to strike and be effective at it, IMO is absolutely crucial to good self defense.
You have to be trolling... Listen Spacebunny, the guys that fight professionally on TV are tougher than you or anyone you've ever met. They don't submit to pain or dmg they "Submit" because if they don't they will get strangled to death, or their arm broken or their leg snapped etc. Mixed Martial Arts is more lethal than any Candy Land bs you guys are talking about. The reason the ref is in there is so when I go unconscious or I tap he can tear the other guy off of me and save my life.
I once had an instructor tell me there is no such thing as unarmed combat. Whether it's a chair or the radio you're carrying , everything is a weapon. Don't overlook your options because of the training in a particular discipline you may have had. And there is no such thing as a fair fight, you're there to win, not play nice.
I once worked with a guy training in krav maga. He'd show up sore and bruised from his training. He'd describe drills designed to learn how to ignore pain. And how every move was basically about killing the other guy, that's why there is no sport associated with it. This guy was no wimp, he served in the Isreali military and walked the border of a country they weren't at war with while the other side would take random shots at them. Best hire I ever made, could handle stress like it was nothing. Train in this and you have my respect.... and a little healthy fear. krav maga isn't about defense, it's about killing the other guy.
Also, careful who you train with. Years later I met a guy who said he was training in krav maga but it didn't sound right. Turns out it was some martial arts guy who failed as a krav maga instructor making up his own thing.
I once worked with a guy training in krav maga. He'd show up sore and bruised from his training. He'd describe drills designed to learn how to ignore pain. And how every move was basically about killing the other guy, that's why there is no sport associated with it. This guy was no wimp, he served in the Isreali military and walked the border of a country they weren't at war with while the other side would take random shots at them. Best hire I ever made, could handle stress like it was nothing. Train in this and you have my respect.... and a little healthy fear. krav maga isn't about defense, it's about killing the other guy.
Also, careful who you train with. Years later I met a guy who said he was training in krav maga but it didn't sound right. Turns out it was some martial arts guy who failed as a krav maga instructor making up his own thing.
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Since there's no submitting in a street fight to stop the fight... Your argument falls on itself.
Having your attacker incur life-changing, or life-ending injuries, means you don't let go of the submission, you crank it harder, producing the desired result.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
Effective striking is fine. What do you do with multiple attackers? What's your strategy? What if one or several are better Thai boxers or grapplers than you are? What if one (or more) has a blade? What if you're a 110 pound female? (Or a clumsy 165 pound SpaceCritter?) You'd better have more tools than just the guard and a healthy Thai round kick.
Travis is an excellent shooter and instructor, I would take a class from him to learn to be a better gun shooter, but not to be a better gunfighter
Competition shooters are just that, competition shooters
If you are an effective striker, chances are pretty good you'll be dropping your street attackers pretty damn quick. Ever seen an experienced fighter go against someone who thinks they're tough? Usually ends pretty fast.
I'm not saying don't have other tools in the tool box, but effective striking is absolutely crucial
I've trained with some tiny ass girls. Look the **** out cause they tend to be the most brutal. No joke.
Absolutely, but striking should be the first tool in your bat belt.
Unarmed? If you have several attackers who are better than you.. if you can't run away your screwed. If your 110lb female your definitely screwed. I don't care what you know. Do you live in real life?
SpaceCritter
NES Member
(Sigh.) When it's you (or me, or your kid sister, or whomever) against one or more attackers on the street, there's NO referee to pull anyone off. Maybe the cops... twenty minutes after the fact.
I'm not interested in proving I'm some sort of tough guy. I'm interested in getting home in one piece. I don't know how much clearer I can state that.
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SpaceCritter
NES Member
Combat arts (including the Filipino arts) train multi-man. And yes, I know people who have pulled it off.
Are you implying the 110-pound woman shouldn't bother fighting back?
Evadd
NES Member
I think he was saying if you're surrounded by a group of guys who can fight better than you, then you're screwed.
I checked out some of MMArtist's fights. No joke. As an aside, Jimmy Pedro Jr and Sr were my wrestling/judo coaches in high school. I recently started up with BJJ and Muay Thai; Jake Dellagrotte teaches about once/week where I go. Unfortunately I can rarely make it to the class he teaches due to timing. I suck at everything so far, but it's a small world.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
It can, but she's going to need more than jab-cross, Thai round kicks, double-leg takedowns, the guard and breaking it, ...
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