Had a friendly argument with a friend this weekend...

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Saturday night I was hanging out with some friends. Drinking some brews, shooting pool. And somehow the topic of gun control and the .gov came into play. the two I were arguing with are both pro 2A, one of whom is a gun owner and Ive been to the range with. basically the conversation turned into a full out debate and it was myself vs. the other two.

Long story short, their argument was despite how much we don't want the government to run our lives, its going to happen. 'they have bigger guns, blah blah.' 'even if the people resisted, they don't stand a chance, blah blah' 'the government has the power of the military' [rolleyes] now here i am trying to defend myself and stand up for what i believe in and how id rather die defending myself and the rights i were born with, then take orders from big brother trying to shelter me more and more as i get older. then the words 'the constitution is a 200+ year old document and times were different' came out of my friends mouth. (the one who owns a handgun) this sent me over the edge.

at this point i feel almost betrayed, i guess you could say, by this particular friend. After all the firearms conversations that we've had, i thought we met eye to eye. it seems as though he has the mentality that hell just abide by whatever the higher power has to say as long as he can still own a firearm. i spoke with his father once who is a veteran and also owns many firearms. Interestingly enough, his father doesn't 'understand why anyone would need or want a 30rd magazine' the conversation ended shortly after that. for obvious reasons.

so its not much of a shock that he would think this way when we had the argument. but i made it a firm point to them, that i STRONGLY disagree with all of his statements.

just had to let that out. and id like to hear anyones input. anyone else have friends like that?
 

milktree

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Times have changed? So the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th amendments aren't relevant anymore too?

I hate that argument.
 
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just had to let that out. and id like to hear anyones input. anyone else have friends like that?

Friday, my friend told me he believes that the 2A only allows for "hunting muskets", but he'll go so far as to allow bolt action rifles that are not magazine fed. I told him that the 2A exists so that if he tries try to take away my AR, I am obligated to, and have the right to shoot him on the spot. I'm not sure he got the point. But, I didn't feel like debating that that moment.
 

drgrant

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People like that talk shit all the time until they've tasted the pointy end of the spear. They don't get that the "as long as he can still own a firearm" thing can change overnight, and it will only get that way with a**h***s like him rubber stamping all the bullshit the gov does.

-Mike
 

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Friday, my friend told me he believes that the 2A only allows for "hunting muskets", but he'll go so far as to allow bolt action rifles that are not magazine fed. I told him that the 2A exists so that if he tries try to take away my AR, I am obligated to, and have the right to shoot him on the spot. I'm not sure he got the point. But, I didn't feel like debating that that moment.

+1
 
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and yet, through all of this...they're firmly stating 'WERE ON YOUR SIDE!!!'

and all i had to say to that, is your not on my side if were disagreeing. and i disagree with everything you just said to me. haha
 

Picton

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This is why "friends" shouldn't argue about things they won't agree on. I've found that, a lot of times, 2A is like abortion or religion: arguing about it is more than the friendship is worth. Strangely, I always get farther argung 2A with acquaintances, not friends; it's best to keep emotion out of it. JMO.
 

drgrant

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Have a friend who shoots. Shotguns and handguns mostly. He mentioned the words "sensible restrictions" the other day in a text. I value our friendship, so I just let it go.

I wouldn't. That's a good opportunity for a teachable moment. Morons need to be taught that "reasonable restrictions" are typically used by the government as a vehicle to deprive people of their rights.

The other problem with that rabbit hole is whenever someone says "reasonable restrictions" when you uncover what they think is reasonable, it hardly is. I've never had that conversation and had someone say something like "Well, I don't think people should be able to fire guns (with live ammunition) in the air in a crowded city" or something that might possibly be construed as a truly non-infringing reasonable restriction. It's always some heinous shit like "I think people should have to get a license and a background check and psych eval before being able to own a gun." or "I don't think people need 30 round clips and assault weapons" (or some such blunder/BS).

Most of the a**h***s that want "reasonable restrictions" have no clue about the phone book sized tomes of federal and state gun laws that already exist, either. It's usually a cauldron of ignorance.

-Mike
 
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Very true. The thing is, he has no problem shooting 30 rounders from my rifle.

I have a similar friend, that I have mentioned on here before. He doesn't hunt, but he owns one handgun that he shoots and carries daily. He said assault weapons have no place in society and he doesn't see the need. I told him that when the focus is off assault weapons and on the firearms responsible for the vast majority of gun deaths, which are handguns, he will feel differently. The people that want the assault weapons banned, want handguns banned more. They just can't do it right now.
 

drgrant

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Very true. The thing is, he has no problem shooting 30 rounders from my rifle.

Then next time bring him only 5 or 10 round mags and leave the others at home. Tell him that someone who is OK with the others being banned doesn't deserve to be able to touch them. "Yes, of course, they suck. Well you told me last week you had no problem with them being banned, so I figured you'd like these shitty mags just fine." Maybe he'll get the drift then.

-Mike
 
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well i dont want anyone to think i lost a friend over this. haha. i took the higher road and just said, hey...i respect your opinion..but i strongly disagree with everything youve said. and ill be damned if i let someone try to infringe upon my rights.
 

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I wouldn't. That's a good opportunity for a teachable moment. Morons need to be taught that "reasonable restrictions" are typically used by the government as a vehicle to deprive people of their rights.

The other problem with that rabbit hole is whenever someone says "reasonable restrictions" when you uncover what they think is reasonable, it hardly is. I've never had that conversation and had someone say something like "Well, I don't think people should be able to fire guns (with live ammunition) in the air in a crowded city" or something that might possibly be construed as a truly non-infringing reasonable restriction. It's always some heinous shit like "I think people should have to get a license and a background check and psych eval before being able to own a gun." or "I don't think people need 30 round clips and assault weapons" (or some such blunder/BS).

Most of the a**h***s that want "reasonable restrictions" have no clue about the phone book sized tomes of federal and state gun laws that already exist, either. It's usually a cauldron of ignorance.

-Mike

My friend is a unique individual.Highly educated, world traveler, and from Atlanta. He's one of those southern liberals that grew up shooting. He has zero fear of firearms, his father carries. He has expressed interest in getting his LTC here in MA. He casually threw out the "reasonable restrictions" line to me when I mentioned I was headed to the state house rally. I didn't have the time or inclination to text debate with him. One of these evenings, we'll have to get together face to face. I think he just hasn't put much thought into it.
 

milktree

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I think he just hasn't put much thought into it.

There's the problem.

There's lots of people who are perfectly happy to restrict guns (or magazines, or soda cups, or cribs) based on what mouth flapping moonbat says because they don't bother to think about it themselves.
 

n1oty

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Your friends fail to recognize the inherent weakness of government and a professional army. Our forefathers defeated the preeminent power of their day. The British had the world's most powerful navy AND arguably the most powerful army as well. Don't put a lot of faith into so-called more powerful weapons or a supposed mightier army.
 

drgrant

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My friend is a unique individual.Highly educated, world traveler, and from Atlanta. He's one of those southern liberals that grew up shooting. He has zero fear of firearms, his father carries. He has expressed interest in getting his LTC here in MA. He casually threw out the "reasonable restrictions" line to me when I mentioned I was headed to the state house rally. I didn't have the time or inclination to text debate with him. One of these evenings, we'll have to get together face to face. I think he just hasn't put much thought into it.

Probably because in GA he's never really faced oppression in regards to gun laws. Hopefully this isn't the case for his sake, but if he lives in the wrong town in MA and he wants an LTC, he's probably about to taste a shit sandwich. His perspective on "what is reasonable" would probably change in about 10 seconds if he was forced to get an LTC in a town like Canton.

-Mike
 
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Indeed times have changed. As a Human race we have become more stupid by the day. I blame nobody but ourselves.
 
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I have a similar friend, that I have mentioned on here before. He doesn't hunt, but he owns one handgun that he shoots and carries daily. He said assault weapons have no place in society and he doesn't see the need. I told him that when the focus is off assault weapons and on the firearms responsible for the vast majority of gun deaths, which are handguns, he will feel differently. The people that want the assault weapons banned, want handguns banned more. They just can't do it right now.

This is such a strong point that a lot of these gun owner/antis just don't seem to comprehend! It truly makes me want to puke when I here this shit from fellow gun owners, just because they feel the restrictions are "reasonable" just because it happens to be on something that "they" don't personally own, or feel the need to own. What is most sad, is that I truly believe that when you have a good amount of actual gun owners buying into the drivel about "reasonable" restrictions, then it won't be more than a generation before the vast majority will feel this way. I can't help but feel we are a generation that is slowly dying off and becoming a serious minority who really "get it" that it all basically comes down to the fact that we either have rights, or we don't - period!
 

Realtor MA

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This is why "friends" shouldn't argue about things they won't agree on. I've found that, a lot of times, 2A is like abortion or religion: arguing about it is more than the friendship is worth. Strangely, I always get farther argung 2A with acquaintances, not friends; it's best to keep emotion out of it. JMO.

I couldn't disagree more with this post. If you can't argue and discuss things with your friends then you really don't have friends. Furthermore if you care about them then you would want them to understand your point of view and ideally you would want them to see that what you are saying makes sense. And if those friends turn out to be the type that would trample your rights then you had better look long and hard at that friendship.
So you're basically saying that a friendship is more important than the principles upon which this country was founded.
 
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Probably because in GA he's never really faced oppression in regards to gun laws. Hopefully this isn't the case for his sake, but if he lives in the wrong town in MA and he wants an LTC, he's probably about to taste a shit sandwich. His perspective on "what is reasonable" would probably change in about 10 seconds if he was forced to get an LTC in a town like Canton.

-Mike

I hope he IS in the wrong town. Let him eat reasonable restrictions and learn from it. :D
 
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Well...I really think a lot of gun owners are at where you friend and where your friend's father are coming from. I am not condoning their beliefs, but there are a lot of Americans that despite it all, still believe in a sort of 1950's Eisenhower style America where big government was seen as good. You would think that after 60 years of drastic social change, this would all have changed, but it hasn't. Then too, many historians claim that no more than 1/3 of the population supported the American Revolution at any given time.

IMO, it would take something really radical to bring about some kind of great awakening amongst the American people. To me, it would have to be something on the order of a total economic catastrophe worse than the Great Depression of 1929; something akin to the Weimar Republic in Germany where people would literally bring wheelbarrows of money to the store to buy bread.

I think that many people too, talk big, but when their own survival or livelihood is on the line, conform to whomever or whatever is in charge. We aren't talking about the so-called Fudds here, because a lot of gun owners aren't hunters or trap and skeet shooters. Like your friend, they own a handgun. Think of his father, in the mindset of his world, why would somebody need a thirty round magazine? That is something for war, and wars happen far away, fought by our brave soldiers who protect us, and maybe some times are needed by the police who also protect us from all the bad people that shoot little children. It's a different mindset created by a different America, with a different set of values and a different way of looking at government. When I was growing up, the M1 Rifle was still the standard military issue main battle rifle of the US Military, the police had revolvers, maybe M1 Carbines. I've been told that each MSP Barracks had a 1903 Springfield...One. A long arm in the police inventory was a pump shotgun not too different than the ones used for duck and deer hunting, and departments that issued long arms, frequently relied on the 30-30 Winchester Model 94, the identical guns that civilians used. This mindset still lingers in older shooters and even to a degree in younger shooters. Where did your friend get his attitudes about shooting? Why from his dad, of course.

America was a great place for a lot of people, and a wealthy, strong, vibrant country, Ike was our friend and so was Officer Friendly, all we had to do was run duck and cover, FDR saved us and we became the arsenal of democracy and eventually defeated communism in the Cold War, and in the process sold almost everything to the Chinese and the Progressives, but people don't realize this, or if they do, they are scared and overwhelmed. A lot of people at their core still believe this older world world view and for "reasonable gun control, because the government isn't here to hurt us but to help us just like it did with the WPA in the 30's or the War on Poverty in the 60's or conversely believe that they cannot fight big government and in the end have to learn to love Big Brother. When you look at all the bad government and bad leaders that people have tolerated over the centuries it really isn't too hard to figure out that most people will fall in line once they perceive that the iron boot is about to kick them in the arse.
 
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I have a similar friend, that I have mentioned on here before. He doesn't hunt, but he owns one handgun that he shoots and carries daily. He said assault weapons have no place in society and he doesn't see the need. I told him that when the focus is off assault weapons and on the firearms responsible for the vast majority of gun deaths, which are handguns, he will feel differently. The people that want the assault weapons banned, want handguns banned more. They just can't do it right now.

They're already going for it. I'm hearing about so-called "assault pistols" and "military-style pistols" on the tube for pretty much anything semi-automatic. So, there is a good chance that your friend's gun will eventually need to be confiscated - "sensible restrictions".

"No one needs a 30 round clip" programming to get all the sheep nodding, IS "seven round magazines" when the words hit paper and the bill gets passed. How's he feel about 7 round magazines?
 

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I couldn't disagree more with this post. If you can't argue and discuss things with your friends then you really don't have friends. Furthermore if you care about them then you would want them to understand your point of view and ideally you would want them to see that what you are saying makes sense. And if those friends turn out to be the type that would trample your rights then you had better look long and hard at that friendship.
So you're basically saying that a friendship is more important than the principles upon which this country was founded.

Well... but this friend, if he's arguing anti-2A, would probably say he, too, is doing you a favor by educating you. He'd want you to "understand" his point of view, as well. How far would he get? Honestly?

So if he's not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change his... then why lose a friendship over it? I'm assuming the OP wants this friendship to continue. The friend, in this case, might not see 2A as a founding principle (which I don't understand, but I've had friends try to get me to), so the conflict between it and friendship might not even arise in the eyes of his friend.
 
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