H&K Will Not Sell to Israel

[SpeedOften]

Tell that to a pile of dead arabs

H&K makes nice guns but how shall I say......IMI has a substantial live fire dev/test program.....

As though H&K's don't also have an equal history of warfare?...

 

[kalash]

It was a more or less self contained issue before we decided to play Dictator Dominos.

Anything Israel is involved in is still contained to the ME (and caused single-handed by Arabs). What, was 9.11 Israel's fault now?

 

[Laura]

Screw Germany...they're self righteous and full of themselves - so much for history not repeating itself. First the German Jews couldn't own a gun and had to turn them in - now they won't sell to Israel. I guess people will think this is an edgy, hip move on the Liberal German end.... I see it for what it is - Germany's long stance and equally long held hatred of the Jewish people....and I'm Catholic.

 

[SpeedOften]

Wikipedia....really?

Cant you do better than that?

Isreal hasnt even acknowledged that they have the bomb in all the decades that its been well known that they posess it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...etonate-nuclear-bomb-egypt-risked-losing-six/

 

[ColdDeadHands]

I think first someone would have to pony up a valid/legitimate source other than wikipedia if they want to someone else to disprove it.....

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/apr/07/opinion/op-perlmutter

This one has a nice quote "Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow--it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Sampson in Gaza? With an H-bomb? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens?

For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away--unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans--have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/21/israelandthepalestinians.bookextracts

[FONT=&quot] 'That depends on who does it and how quickly it happens. We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.'


[/FONT]Back to you Tom.

- - - Updated - - -

Anything Israel is involved in is still contained to the ME (and caused single-handed by Arabs). What, was 9.11 Israel's fault now?

The migrant crisis and increase in Islamic attacks on European soil are a result in part of our ridiculous Middle Eastern adventures. Our unwavering support of Israel was certainly one of the aggravators that lead to 9/11.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

As though H&K's don't also have an equal history of warfare?...

Exactly. How many IWI guns do our special forces use. I'll wait.

 

[JimmyRussell]

Screw Germany...they're self righteous and full of themselves - so much for history not repeating itself. First the German Jews couldn't own a gun and had to turn them in - now they won't sell to Israel. I guess people will think this is an edgy, hip move on the Liberal German end.... I see it for what it is - Germany's long stance and equally long held hated of the Jewish people....and I'm Catholic.

Modern liberal german government appropriating hatred of the Jews... do you not see the conflict there?

HK is right on point with this one. And the rest of us need to recognize this victimhood for what it is and stop fighting Israels wars for them.

 

[SpeedOften]

I think first someone would have to pony up a valid/legitimate source other than wikipedia if they want to someone else to disprove it.....

Did you scroll down? Wikipedia has these things called footnotes now.

 

[ColdDeadHands]

So what you're trying to convey....this time with something slightly more reputable than wilipedia shite is that IF Isreal had Nukes that they would enguage in exactly the same doctrine of mutual assured destruction that every other westerm nation, the USSR/Russians and the Chi-Comm's have played by for over 50 years?

Our MAD involves destroying the country that is destroying us. Israel's MAD involves destroying Europe for not saving them.

 

[SpeedOften]

So what you're trying to convey....this time with something slightly more reputable than wilipedia shite is that Isreal haS Nukes that they would enguage in exactly the same doctrine of mutual assured destruction that every other westerm nation, the USSR/Russians and the Chi-Comm's have played by for over 50 years?

You can end the "if". They have nukes.

 

[ColdDeadHands]

You can end the "if". They have nukes.

Hell, they were key to helping South Africa get the bomb.

 

[JimmyRussell]

Whats next....is someone going to try to assert that the National Socialist Party (NAZI) wasnt a left wing party?

We aren't arguing left or right wing here.... but to compare modern day "refugees welcome" Germany with the third Reich just shows how much you actually don't understand what you're talking about....

 

[SpeedOften]

I think you and others interpret that incorrectly

Everyone from the UK to Germany to a raft of other western nations have and continue to actively work to undermine/oppose Isreal.

Dont get me wrong, Isreal has and continues to act in ITS best interests as does every other nation......but lets not fool one another....the UK, Germany, France and a raft of other countries continue to be embarrassed by their actions/lack of actions that led to the german genocide.....and they would be perfectly happy to allow Isreal to "Go Away" and be erased from the history books

Can you support such assertions? That all those countries want Israel to "go away"?

 

[ColdDeadHands]

I think you and others interpret that incorrectly

Everyone from the UK to Germany to a raft of other western nations have and continue to actively work to undermine/oppose Isreal.

Dont get me wrong, Isreal has and continues to act in ITS best interests as does every other nation......but lets not fool one another....the UK, Germany, France and a raft of other countries continue to be embarrassed by their actions/lack of actions that led to the german genocide.....and they would be perfectly happy to allow Isreal to "Go Away" and be erased from the history books

You can't be serious. You are actually arguing that the governments of Europe want Israel to be destroyed because they're embarrassed about the Holocaust? Am I interpreting that correctly? They want to wipe out knowledge of the Holocaust they they spend literally millions yearly engaging in self-flagellation about? Germany opened it's gates to migrants that rape and murder it's people because of the persistent guilt, and you're saying that they want Israel destroyed?

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Ok so calling people Nazi's isn't a leftist tactic? And him doing so was an accurate assessment of H&K? Are people to the right of Karl Marx Nazi's? Is Yair Netanyahu a Nazi? Are people upset about the 34 United States Military men killed on the USS Liberty by the Israeli Military Nazi's?

What is a Nazi JpK?

Still awaiting a response

 

[MichaelJames1971]

I think you and others interpret that incorrectly

Everyone from the UK to Germany to a raft of other western nations have and continue to actively work to undermine/oppose Isreal.

Dont get me wrong, Isreal has and continues to act in ITS best interests as does every other nation......but lets not fool one another....the UK, Germany, France and a raft of other countries continue to be embarrassed by their actions/lack of actions that led to the german genocide.....and they would be perfectly happy to allow Isreal to "Go Away" and be erased from the history books

I wouldn't go that far - I believe they're all well-aware that the existence of Israel is a byproduct from their "actions/lack of actions" that led to the Holocaust. After the camps were opened, Jews weren't exactly welcomed back to western Europe with 'open-arms' - all of their real estate was confiscated, and post-war Europe was VERY liberal in allowing people to keep the homes of Jews who were sent-away....there really was no place for most of them to go.

However, it is fair to say that Europe and the West continue to pay a VERY heavy price for "The Palestinian Issue" - Al Qaeda didn't exist prior to Rabin's assassination and Benny walking-away from the Clinton-brokered peace deal.....coincidence? NOPE - Muslim Terrorist organizations the world over are motivated by Israel's actions, after-Rabin.

 

[sbi]

This is fine by me. Israel is not a friend of the West, no matter what the neocons tell you.

How not? Care to elaborate?

 

[MichaelJames1971]

How not? Care to elaborate?

Unless you hold an active Security Clearance, you might not be aware that the Nation of Israel currently has an active, and ongoing Espionage program targeting the United States.....

 

[Mr. Wolf]

JPk, you gonna double down or nah, I've asked you to clarify twice and you've posted 8 times since then.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Did you post something worth responding to or was it wikipedia like?

I posted it twice, you know the answer. I'm just waiting to see if you're going to double down and agree with the leftist tactic of calling people Nazi's out of context because you don't agree with them.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

The "Allies" treated Jews like shit....look at the history of the FDR administration turning away jewish refugees that did make it to the US.....only to be killed in german concentration camps

the NY Times was notoriously anti semetic throughout the 30's and 40's.....one could argue they still are today

The West did not know about the Holocaust during FDR's entry into the war. Had it known, different decisions would certainly have been made. I agree that the result of the Evian Conference was a massive Black Mark on the morality and humanity of the West - it was one of the large reasons why the US supported the existence of Israel at the UN.

Isreal is the equivalent of a cup of gas thrown on a multi story bonfire

The problem is Islam and its intolerance for anyone else....Islam has been invading everyone else since the days of the prophet.....nearly every current conflict in the world is between Islam and somebody else.

Isreal is a pimple on the arse of an elephant

Greatly Disagree - the Six Day War and the trapped Palestinians reshaped the Arab view of Israel permanently. The US has been 'tainted' through our support since the late 1940s, but we REALLY fell under the gun when the Arabs figured-out that those were US-made planes, bombs, and guns used against them. Before that, Arabs didn't care about the West very much - there was oil money to be made and enjoyed. The Arab states weren't nearly as Muslim then as they are now....supporting the Shah didn't help matters much, either. But it all goes back to the 'fall' of Palestine.

BTW, does England or Australia spy on the US? Nope....

 

[kalash]

Unless you hold an active Security Clearance, you might not be aware that the Nation of Israel currently has an active, and ongoing Espionage program targeting the United States.....

Sounds like something you shouldn't post about then. Did you just commit treason by releasing classified information?

 

[sbi]

Unless you hold an active Security Clearance, you might not be aware that the Nation of Israel currently has an active, and ongoing Espionage program targeting the United States.....

right...so does the US and pretty much every country. Please try again.

 

[goodlife30]

The West did not know about the Holocaust during FDR's entry into the war. Had it known, different decisions would certainly have been made. I agree that the result of the Evian Conference was a massive Black Mark on the morality and humanity of the West - it was one of the large reasons why the US supported the existence of Israel at the UN.

America was aware of what was happening to the Jews. Between the spies, the code breaking, the Russians, refugees, captured Germans, and stripping Jews of their citizenship you would have to be a moron to think all the Jews disappeared on their own. Hitler was pretty clear about his hatred for them. America looked the other way to keep us out of the war. Don't ask don't tell. America would not of gone to war for the Jews. Lindbergh was pretty adamant and popular with keeping us out of another world war. Only Japan changed that. Hitler declared war on America. Pretty telling.

Even today we let the Bosnians get slaughtered as well as the Syrians. Nothing changes.




Greatly Disagree - the Six Day War and the trapped Palestinians reshaped the Arab view of Israel permanently. The US has been 'tainted' through our support since the late 1940s, but we REALLY fell under the gun when the Arabs figured-out that those were US-made planes, bombs, and guns used against them. Before that, Arabs didn't care about the West very much - there was oil money to be made and enjoyed. The Arab states weren't nearly as Muslim then as they are now....supporting the Shah didn't help matters much, either. But it all goes back to the 'fall' of Palestine.

BTW, does England or Australia spy on the US? Nope....

Xxx

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Like I said.

Did you post something worth responding to?

Avoiding healthy discourse, how cute. It's like you're sitting there at your keyboard with the leftist playbook.

Did you really not expect such an absurd statement like the one you made to go unchallenged?

If you dont want to then next time sit the next thread out instead of posting on a public forum.

 

[tuna]

It was a more or less self contained issue before we decided to play Dictator Dominos.

Israel can't claim to be part of destabilizing an unstable region. That began (in earnest, anyway) after WWI when the Allied powers carved up the region in a way that looks like signatures of Michael J Fox and Mohammed Ali. Adding Israel after WWII just ratcheted up the crazy - and gave everyone someone to band together against.

 

[ColdDeadHands]

Israel can't claim to be part of destabilizing an unstable region. That began (in earnest, anyway) after WWI when the Allied powers carved up the region in a way that looks like signatures of Michael J Fox and Mohammed Ali. Adding Israel after WWII just ratcheted up the crazy - and gave everyone someone to band together against.

The Balfour Declaration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration), which laid the ground for modern Israel and happend DURING WW1, was a large part of the carving up of the region, but I don't entirely disagree with your point.

 

[ColdDeadHands]

Bottom line that I hope no one will disagree with is that the Jews have many thousands of years of history on that land.....over 1000 years before the prophet was born or islam ever existed......

Folks have been fighting over that patch of dirt for thousands of years and thats not likely to end in any of our lifetimes

Sure, I agree with both of those statements. Both sides will fight until one wipes the other out.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Is that how you enguage in healthy discourse?

I could just as easily point out post #2

The German's wont sell guns to the Jews?

Shocked I tell you.......

IMI makes better guns anyway....**** the huns

"**** The Huns" So healthy.

My response was in regards to where you immediately jump the gun and see this BLANKET POLICY DECISION as some sort of anti-semitic attack on Israel. I would understand that could be viewed as being a possibility had this been without reason and not a blanket policy decision, but the title of this thread and the article unfairly tries to fuel an unnecessary fire by leaving out 60 some odd countries it also refuses to sell guns to under this policy.

But that's irrelevant because you still haven't addressed that it's not ok to label H&K as nazi's.

 

[rwl1955]

Unless you hold an active Security Clearance, you might not be aware that the Nation of Israel currently has an active, and ongoing Espionage program targeting the United States.....

******
as do all other countries. Didn't we get caught tapping Merkel's cell phone?