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H&K Legal, scratch that, MA Compliant... As Of......

MichaelJR said:
They are all over gunbroker for under 800. There's a REAL nice grade A for 750 right now, but it's the one with the warning statement on it, not quite as "ooooo aaahhh" as the other ones.
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Those must be PSPs, not the P7M8. PSPs are way cheap because of all the border guard imports that flooded the market. A lot of them have a huge mill mark on the slide where some kind of logo or internal serial number was milled off the slide. Still a decent gun if you can tolerate the heel release, and the fact that they don't have a heat shield.

Decent P7M8s are generally always $1200+ Not that long ago when they were still in production, the new ones were like $1250-1300, and they had the ugly trussville warning and import marks on them.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Those must be PSPs, not the P7M8. PSPs are way cheap because of all the border guard imports that flooded the market. A lot of them have a huge mill mark on the slide where some kind of logo or internal serial number was milled off the slide. Still a decent gun if you can tolerate the heel release, and the fact that they don't have a heat shield.

Decent P7M8s are generally always $1200+ Not that long ago when they were still in production, the new ones were like $1250-1300, and they had the ugly trussville warning and import marks on them.

-Mike
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I will further look into this. Thanks for the heads up though, I thought I found a steal
 
glockstar said:
Is the P200sk in .357 not a decent gun? that would be my personal choice unless I hear too much to the contrary. any thoughts?
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Good luck finding one. It might be on the Approved Firearms Roster, but it isn't available new in MA because it doesn't meet the AG's regulations.

I'm sure it is a decent gun. Have you shot .357Sig? It has quite a report, a large muzzle flash and perceived recoil, particularly in a smaller gun.
 
glockstar said:
Is the P200sk in .357 not a decent gun? that would be my personal choice unless I hear too much to the contrary. any thoughts?
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Most reviews say it's excellent for the role it's supposed to play. It's essentially the size of a Glock 26 or 27 though a bit larger in one or two dimensions.

Like M1911 said, .357 SIG has quite a report. Personally, if it were available, I'd just go with the 9mm version and run a good +P ammo in it. Martha has said these guns are dangerous though so I'll take her advice and stick with a safe gun.
 
Dumb question: So I have read the FAQs and I understand the two tiers of BS that guns must get through before being sold here. However, since the AG doesn't actually publish a list and just seems to arbitrarily decide "hey Im not gonna allow that gun to be sold here" why aren't gun shops stocking the H&K's if they are on the EOPS list? Is the assumption that the AG has raised issues behind the scenes that the public just doesn't know about? The Sig P238 gets on the list and is immediately in shops...the H&Ks have been on the list and are not in shops. Is there some approval step I am missing, or is there just absolutely zero transparency in how the AG operates?

I guess my question is really, how does a gun shop know that they're not supposed to sell H&K if it's on the EOPS list and there is no AG list?
 
endus said:
Dumb question: So I have read the FAQs and I understand the two tiers of BS that guns must get through before being sold here. However, since the AG doesn't actually publish a list and just seems to arbitrarily decide "hey Im not gonna allow that gun to be sold here" why aren't gun shops stocking the H&K's if they are on the EOPS list? Is the assumption that the AG has raised issues behind the scenes that the public just doesn't know about? The Sig P238 gets on the list and is immediately in shops...the H&Ks have been on the list and are not in shops. Is there some approval step I am missing, or is there just absolutely zero transparency in how the AG operates?

I guess my question is really, how does a gun shop know that they're not supposed to sell H&K if it's on the EOPS list and there is no AG list?
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The gun shops rely on the distributors who rely on the OEMs to state whether they think their firearms comply with the regulations. If the OEM doesn't assume the risk of stating their guns comply, they don't get sold by the distributors for general purchase.
 
endus said:
Dumb question: So I have read the FAQs and I understand the two tiers of BS that guns must get through before being sold here. However, since the AG doesn't actually publish a list and just seems to arbitrarily decide "hey Im not gonna allow that gun to be sold here" why aren't gun shops stocking the H&K's if they are on the EOPS list? Is the assumption that the AG has raised issues behind the scenes that the public just doesn't know about? The Sig P238 gets on the list and is immediately in shops...the H&Ks have been on the list and are not in shops. Is there some approval step I am missing, or is there just absolutely zero transparency in how the AG operates?

I guess my question is really, how does a gun shop know that they're not supposed to sell H&K if it's on the EOPS list and there is no AG list?
Click to expand...

They rely on a letter from the manuf stating the gun is AG compliant, or they rely on their distributor to tell them "yes this is fully MA compliant". At least that's how many in MA do it.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
They rely on a letter from the manuf stating the gun is AG compliant, or they rely on their distributor to tell them "yes this is fully MA compliant". At least that's how many in MA do it.

-Mike
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Yea, it's kinda strange that H&K would put up the weapons to get the testing done but then let things drop. I'm sure they ran into a bunch of political BS (read: some kind of shakedown) though. Explains why you guys are so skeptical about this...I won't hold my breath for any HKs.

Thanks!
 
endus said:
Yea, it's kinda strange that H&K would put up the weapons to get the testing done but then let things drop. I'm sure they ran into a bunch of political BS (read: some kind of shakedown) though. Explains why you guys are so skeptical about this...I won't hold my breath for any HKs.

Thanks!
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The problem is that the AG's office will not tell a vendor if their gun is compliant or not. All HK can do is send them a certified letter saying "we are going to sell this and we think it is CMR 940 compliant blah blah " and the AGs office either never responds to that nofification, or they wait a couple of months and then go start wailing on dealers... that's how it works. The entire process on the AG regs end is a black box.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
The problem is that the AG's office will not tell a vendor if their gun is compliant or not. All HK can do is send them a certified letter saying "we are going to sell this and we think it is CMR 940 compliant blah blah " and the AGs office either never responds to that nofification, or they wait a couple of months and then go start wailing on dealers... that's how it works. The entire process on the AG regs end is a black box.

-Mike
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If I hadn't lived in this state all my life I wouldn't believe it. As is, though, it sounds like par for the course.

I wonder what happened with HK, then? I guess we'll never know.
 
M1911 said:
I'm sure it is a decent gun. Have you shot .357Sig? It has quite a report, a large muzzle flash and perceived recoil, particularly in a smaller gun.
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You sound like the guys telling me that a Glock 29 for my first handgun and as a carry gun was a horrible choice because it's nearly uncontrollable. Seriously, it's a .40 necked down to a 9, not a .40 necked up to a .500 mag [rolleyes]
 
endus said:
Yea, it's kinda strange that H&K would put up the weapons to get the testing done but then let things drop. I'm sure they ran into a bunch of political BS (read: some kind of shakedown) though. Explains why you guys are so skeptical about this...I won't hold my breath for any HKs.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

For further understanding . . .

The MGL testing requirements are almost identical as those for CA, so it pays for a mfr to get it tested and submit to both states for inclusion in their lists. At that point, individual LEOs can purchase the gun new, so if they want the LE market, this is their ticket in the door.

The AG stuff is much trickier, as it is a self-certification by the mfr with no AG input UNTIL THEY OBJECT and threaten legal action . . . or require recovery of all guns sold (which again is costly to the mfr/dealers/distributors). So most companies make the sensible decision not to play "Russian Roulette with a Semi-Auto" <joke> and end their adventure into the MA morass at that point.
 

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