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H&K Germany is in dire financial straits

They make some very nice firearms, but they never miss a chance to stick it to the American public. I'd give my left nut for a 416 upper, instead they give us the MR556 - no chrome lined barrel, different barrel profile, etc, etc. They are such dicks.
 
taz-2005 said:
HK makes fine pistols, I just don't get the pricing. 850 for a polymer gun compared to where Glock and S&W are which you'd think is their competition.
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The cost of the gun is not the real problem, it's just the ergos and some marketing decisions. The guns are REALLY nice quality wise but they are just too damned big, particularly their mid size and compact guns. When the market has like Springfield, S&W, and Glock in it as contenders, all 3 of those are skinnier than most HKs are and they hold more ammo. Even the plump XDs and M&Ps are still easier to carry than any HK product.
The magazines for all 3 of those generally cost 20% less than HK too, and they're way easier to come by. That's why getting HK mags is a bitch even at stores that sell HK pistols all the time.

Their customer service in the US is best described in two words... "****ing Terrible". Even Sig, on the whole, is not nearly as bad, not even post-kimberization. There are also not that many parts in the chain and parts are hard to come by. Contrast this with, say, Glock where I can get in touch with 4 different Glock armorers within an hour of my house that have Glock parts in stock. HK would do well to sell a spares kit for like $50 that has all the shit that breaks in it. (EG, Trigger bar, sear spring, extractor) People would actually buy them.

-Mike
 
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atilla said:
sweet, when i am done with my G3/CETME bastardization it will be worth more reichmarks.
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Not really, a CETME is just a CETME, and it will always be viewed as such. HK purists won't even touch them. If we were women, the CETME is the fake coach bag while the G3 /HK91 is the real deal. I know this because I am a reformed HK nutbag myself.

-Mike
 
Only thing I like from hk is the ump in .45.
The usc is a slap in the face . The color and the stupid ass stock . Thing pisses me off to look at . Basicaly goes for every civ version of the guns .

Lets make them so ugly and cripple them so no one wants to buy them but people can't bitch we don't offer semi versions.
 
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warwickben said:
Only thing I like from hk is the ump in .45.
The usc is a slap in the face . The color and the stupid ass stock . Thing pisses me off to look at . Basicaly goes for every civ version of the guns .

Lets make them so ugly and cripple them so no one wants to buy them but people can't bitch we don't offer semi versions.
Click to expand...

Wat???

mr762_lg.jpg


Drool
 
edmorseiii said:
Meh, I could think of 5 rifles I would rather have.
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This. It's the type of thing where if someone gave me one for free I wouldn't complain but I'm not spending money on any HK products... particularly not considering there's all kinds of nice stuff from Noveske, Larue, etc, around... for less money.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Not really, a CETME is just a CETME, and it will always be viewed as such. HK purists won't even touch them. If we were women, the CETME is the fake coach bag while the G3 /HK91 is the real deal. I know this because I am a reformed HK nutbag myself.

-Mike
Click to expand...


Mike knows his handbags too! [smile]
 
drgrant said:
The cost of the gun is not the real problem, it's just the ergos and some marketing decisions. The guns are REALLY nice quality wise but they are just too damned big, particularly their mid size and compact guns.
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Yup. My USPc .45 has a slide that is simply stupidly large. The damn thing is huge. With 8 round magazines, the USPc 45 just isn't a very good size/capacity proposition.

While the mag release is ambidextrous (good), it is equally hard to reach by rightys and leftys (bad). Yes, you can operate the mag release with your trigger finger, but I find that slower and more awkward than using my thumb. In addition, I'm just not keen on messing around with my trigger finger right next to the trigger when I'm not actually trying to pull the trigger.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the trigger is bad. The SA trigger pull is fair, but the DA trigger pull is absolutely horrid -- it is very heavy and stacks a lot. Out of the box, SIG DA/SA triggers aren't great, but they are usable -- better than the USP.

The USPc has a high bore-axis, which increases muzzle flip. As drgrant mentioned, getting parts out of HK has been horrible in the past, and HK magazines are stupidly expensive. Some years back, a gunsmith was trying to replace a spring on my USPc for me. HK wouldn't sell him the spring. HK wanted him to order $10,000 in guns instead. I called HK and finally received the spring after 2 months. My USPc was down during that time.

It isn't all bad, as mine has been reliable and accurate. The stock sights are decent, in comparison to the stock Glock sights which are horrid. The slide release is in the correct place and is generously sized.

My HK USPc is a safe queen. I regularly carry a full size 1911, a Glock 23, or a PM9. YMMV.
 
warwickben said:
Do the even make a civ m417?
I looked and only could find semi auto m416 and uppers no .308 uppers etc .
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This is their civilian model IIRC. But $3199 is a bit too high for me. Rather have a SCAR if I'm going that route.

edmorseiii said:
Meh, I could think of 5 rifles I would rather have.
Click to expand...

Same here. Just saying they still make cool rifles, just ridiculously overpriced.
 
I bet there .308 only works with there mags , and they won't ever make a upper by it self that would work on most .308 lowers . Cause its just such amazing game changer ......

Now that I think of it does any one make a piston setup for ar10 style guns besides them?



If I could get a ump or a converted usc that takes grease gun mags for 1000$ I'd buy it.
 
warwickben said:
I bet there .308 only works with there mags , and they won't ever make a upper by it self that would work on most .308 lowers . Cause its just such amazing game changer ......

Now that I think of it does any one make a piston setup for ar10 style guns besides them?
Click to expand...

I think LWRC does?
 
M1911 said:
Yup. My USPc .45 has a slide that is simply stupidly large. The damn thing is huge. With 8 round magazines, the USPc 45 just isn't a very good size/capacity proposition.

While the mag release is ambidextrous (good), it is equally hard to reach by rightys and leftys (bad). Yes, you can operate the mag release with your trigger finger, but I find that slower and more awkward than using my thumb. In addition, I'm just not keen on messing around with my trigger finger right next to the trigger when I'm not actually trying to pull the trigger.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the trigger is bad. The SA trigger pull is fair, but the DA trigger pull is absolutely horrid -- it is very heavy and stacks a lot. Out of the box, SIG DA/SA triggers aren't great, but they are usable -- better than the USP.

The USPc has a high bore-axis, which increases muzzle flip. As drgrant mentioned, getting parts out of HK has been horrible in the past, and HK magazines are stupidly expensive. Some years back, a gunsmith was trying to replace a spring on my USPc for me. HK wouldn't sell him the spring. HK wanted him to order $10,000 in guns instead. I called HK and finally received the spring after 2 months. My USPc was down during that time.

It isn't all bad, as mine has been reliable and accurate. The stock sights are decent, in comparison to the stock Glock sights which are horrid. The slide release is in the correct place and is generously sized.

My HK USPc is a safe queen. I regularly carry a full size 1911, a Glock 23, or a PM9. YMMV.
Click to expand...

FWIW the DA in the USP series can be improved considerably, but you need some patience and a gentle hand, and an hour of time... The USP .40 fullsize I had, I was able to turn the DA into a buttery smooth pull... it was still like 10 pounds but it stacked/stuttered a lot less when I was done. The Wolff 12lb mainspring helps a lot too... (and it's still reliably ignites all common ammo.) The problem is there is a bunch of molding flash and other crap in the frames of these guns that needs to be gently filed/polished off. Polishing the friction points between the moving parts helps considerably. Putting a little lube in the right places helps, too. I had other HKs I wanted to do this to, but I didn't bother because I sold them all before I got the chance.

The LEM trigger was also a great idea but it would have sucked a lot less if the reset wasn't so damned long.

-Mike
 
I don't know enough about .308 platform ar's I wouldn't mind building one but ill be happy once my psl shooting cheap ammo when Im sons with it .

But that said I would really like a .308 ar a still .
 
no one builds HK parts kits.

Yet, somehow, they are the most expensive parts kit you can possibly buy.

It's all in the "branding." They did a good job of making their shit expensive, but god damn- an HK91/93/33/53/etc is about as simple as a AK. Nothing special about it. In fact- it's more simplified, which makes it more mechanically beautiful.

So I take that back. It is more badass. But it was also designed 60 years ago along with the AK. It's about time they designed something else that wasn't just a Stoner knock off rifle. Cuz das gay.

- - - Updated - - -

warwickben said:
Only reason I gave a piston in my ar15 cause I found a kit for 150$
Not a deal breaker at all for me .
Click to expand...

buy an AK and stop liking it in your ass.
 
The MP5 is a pretty sweet sub gun. Of course they can't sell me one so....
 
taz-2005 said:
HK makes fine pistols, I just don't get the pricing. 850 for a polymer gun compared to where Glock and S&W are which you'd think is their competition.
Click to expand...

This. Sig is a European manufacturer like HK and their metal pistols cost as much as HK polymers. If Sig can profitably manufacture metal pistols at that price point, then HK should be able to drop their prices on polymer pistols. I'll take my Sig220 and Sig229 over any of the HK's.
 

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