Guy points gun at robber, robber shoots good guy

headednorth · May 31, 2017

Just posting as food for thought for anyone who carries concealed. I like to think I dont obsess about things, but I do try to imagine different scenarios and think about how I may react.

Guy draws on the bad guy who was attempting to rob a group of people. Robber initially lowered his gun, then quickly raised it again and shot the good guy who later died.

http://pilotonline.com/news/local/c...cle_ce12f820-d416-5a8a-a154-882d54619c39.html

Caveman · May 31, 2017

i've always been taught to draw and shoot. not draw and negotiate. Sorry to hear a good guy got the short straw.

Admin · May 31, 2017

Robber initially lowered his gun, then quickly raised it again and shot the good guy who later died.

As soon as a gun is introduced it's lead delivery time. I'm not telling bad guy armed robber to drop his gun. A gun in his hand is enough to justify deadly force. Cops can shot you for a fricken furtive movement.

If a gun is pointed at you during a crime, lethal force is justified. If you're gonna hesitate you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun.

bfm · May 31, 2017

Caveman said:
i've always been taught to draw and shoot. not draw and negotiate. Sorry to hear a good guy got the short straw.

Yeah, if you are justified in drawing, you are justified in shooting, so shoot.

Radtekk · May 31, 2017

"He was pointing the gun at me and had his finger on the trigger, it was him or me." Of course, that is AFTER you get approval from your attorney. Before that: "I don't feel so well, I need an attorney and an ambulance ride to the ER, my chest hurts and I can't breathe." And STFU!

Rider · Jun 1, 2017

bfm said:
Yeah, if you are justified in drawing, you are justified in shooting, so shoot.

The converse is also true: IF you are not justified in shooting, you should not have your gun out.

The other thing is 'the magic talisman' thinking. It may be that the good guy in this case really wasn't prepared mentally to shoot, and in his head he pulls his gun, the other guy surrenders, then move on to the TV interviews.

I obviously don't know anything about the good guy here, or the bad guy, but it seems his training was incomplete - or the bad guy had the correct mindset and/or more experience.

ETA: Reading the story again, it seems a bit shady. Guy senses danger, so he goes home and gets a gun, then comes back?

goodlife30 · Jun 1, 2017

Don't forget to render "first aid" to the scumbag-for legal defense purposes.

xtry51 · Jun 1, 2017

Admin said:
As soon as a gun is introduced it's lead delivery time. I'm not telling bad guy armed robber to drop his gun. A gun in his hand is enough to justify deadly force. Cops can shot you for a fricken furtive movement.

If a gun is pointed at you during a crime, lethal force is justified. If you're gonna hesitate you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun.

This.

Terminator03 · Jun 1, 2017

Rider said:
The converse is also true: IF you are not justified in shooting, you should not have your gun out.

The other thing is 'the magic talisman' thinking. It may be that the good guy in this case really wasn't prepared mentally to shoot, and in his head he pulls his gun, the other guy surrenders, then move on to the TV interviews.

I obviously don't know anything about the good guy here, or the bad guy, but it seems his training was incomplete - or the bad guy had the correct mindset and/or more experience.

ETA: Reading the story again, it seems a bit shady. Guy senses danger, so he goes home and gets a gun, then comes back?

WTF? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes comes to mind...

Chevy 2 65 · Jun 1, 2017

Admin said:
As soon as a gun is introduced it's lead delivery time. I'm not telling bad guy armed robber to drop his gun. A gun in his hand is enough to justify deadly force. Cops can shot you for a fricken furtive movement.

If a gun is pointed at you during a crime, lethal force is justified. If you're gonna hesitate you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun.

Close the thread !

amm5061 · Jun 1, 2017

Admin said:
As soon as a gun is introduced it's lead delivery time. I'm not telling bad guy armed robber to drop his gun. A gun in his hand is enough to justify deadly force. Cops can shot you for a fricken furtive movement.

If a gun is pointed at you during a crime, lethal force is justified. If you're gonna hesitate you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun.

Yup. No drawing without shooting. In MA it's pretty even money you'll go to jail for defending yourself either way, so you might as well make it a one-sided story.

Chet0729 · Jun 1, 2017

When you have to shoot, shoot, dont talk

Oldarmy · Jun 1, 2017

He who hesitates is lost. RIP foolish good guy. Pull and pop!

Vagrant · Jun 1, 2017

Serious question, should you draw your gun if bad guy already had his gun pointed at you? I'm no Tom Cruise from the movie Collateral.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Carl in Ct · Jun 1, 2017

Chet0729 said:
When you have to shoot, shoot, dont talk

Listen to Tuco.

Carl in Ct · Jun 1, 2017

Vagrant said:
Serious question, should you draw your gun if bad guy already had his gun pointed at you? I'm no Tom Cruise from the movie Collateral.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I wouldn't, not unless he got distracted enough that I thought I could draw and shoot accurately before he could shoot at me.

Personally I am not trained well enough yet to attempt that unless he completely turned his back to me first. Then I would go to jail because if he wasn't pointing a gun at me anymore CT would probably say I was not under imminent threat anymore. You know, he decided to stop pointing his gun at me because he was just turning his life around right at that moment.

Rider · Jun 1, 2017

Vagrant said:
Serious question, should you draw your gun if bad guy already had his gun pointed at you? I'm no Tom Cruise from the movie Collateral.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

It depends on the situation. If the guy is robbing you, give him your stuff. If the guy is trying to hurt your family or take you away, it's go time. The vast majority of the time, bad guys just want your stuff. If the bad guy is a hard core predator, you're probably screwed before you know he's there.

cockpitbob · Jun 1, 2017

Vagrant said:
Serious question, should you draw your gun if bad guy already had his gun pointed at you? I'm no Tom Cruise from the movie Collateral.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

You'd be amazed how slow a draw that feels fast is. Practice drawing from your CCW holster. Set up your phone and record it. You'll be better mentally armed to make the "do I have time" decision.
With snap caps and a shot timer phone app you can time yourself and work on improving speed. Many apps can be set to hear the snap of dry firing.

Dennis in MA · Jun 1, 2017

dEX · Jun 1, 2017

He who hesitates has lost.

Drunder40 · Jun 1, 2017

headednorth said:
Just posting as food for thought for anyone who carries concealed. I like to think I dont obsess about things, but I do try to imagine different scenarios and think about how I may react.

Guy draws on the bad guy who was attempting to rob a group of people. Robber initially lowered his gun, then quickly raised it again and shot the good guy who later died.

http://pilotonline.com/news/local/c...cle_ce12f820-d416-5a8a-a154-882d54619c39.html

If the BG had a knife at a reasonable distance that would have been a situation to maybe draw in an attempt to remove the threat.. But with a gun.. like others have said, draw and shoot..

Palladin · Jun 1, 2017

Derek nailed this

Bt74 · Jun 1, 2017

Admin said:
Cops can shot you for a fricken furtive movement.

In New Hampshire lately, the new "throwdown" when you don't have a throwdown, is "the guy made a gun "gesture" with his finger." Salem Cops got away with it and just the other day that was the claim made by cops shooting an unarmed guy.

jhblaze1 · Jun 1, 2017

Admin said:
As soon as a gun is introduced it's lead delivery time. I'm not telling bad guy armed robber to drop his gun. A gun in his hand is enough to justify deadly force. Cops can shot you for a fricken furtive movement.

If a gun is pointed at you during a crime, lethal force is justified. If you're gonna hesitate you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun.

yup...can't second guess yourself. Don't pull a gun if you're not ready to use it.

Rider · Jun 1, 2017

Bt74 said:
In New Hampshire lately, the new "throwdown" when you don't have a throwdown, is "the guy made a gun "gesture" with his finger." Salem Cops got away with it and just the other day that was the claim made by cops shooting an unarmed guy.

The supreme court's ruling this week doesn't help the situation.

drgrant · Jun 1, 2017

headednorth said:
Just posting as food for thought for anyone who carries concealed. I like to think I dont obsess about things, but I do try to imagine different scenarios and think about how I may react.

Guy draws on the bad guy who was attempting to rob a group of people. Robber initially lowered his gun, then quickly raised it again and shot the good guy who later died.

http://pilotonline.com/news/local/c...cle_ce12f820-d416-5a8a-a154-882d54619c39.html

"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."

A would be good Samaritan got plugged by a mall shooter type doing this same kind of dance, too, he thought he was being a "good christian" or some bullshit by giving the guy a chance, who then used his kindness against him.

I always tell people, if you're not going to train to shoot the prick, leave the gun at home, don't carry one, don't even bother.

-Mike

Chevy 2 65 · Jun 1, 2017

Rider said:
The supreme court's ruling this week doesn't help the situation.

Link? you can't just make statement like that, come on man !

mibro · Jun 1, 2017

From the article:

Jonathan Cain said he got a look at the shooter’s face and, even though part of it was covered by the bandana, it didn’t look like the mug shots for the four adults. So he assumes the 17-year-old was the shooter.

You can not bet your life on rational thinking from a "teen."

Cabinetman · Jun 1, 2017

Quote:........... ran back to his apartment, got his handgun from a drawer, loaded a clip and returned to his neighbor’s.

After coming back, a man wearing a bandana pointed a gun at them, Jonathan Cain said.....unquote.

First of all, if he had time to grab a heater and a "clip" he had time to dial 911.

Second, as soon as he saw a bad guy with a gun out, his comes out and fires, no warnings, no demands, nothing. I practice this as much as I can at the range, hoping against hope that I'll never, ever have to do this. I set up a target at about 15' and "calmly" pull my carry piece from my pocket and shoot center mass. The idea is to do this smoothly and deliberately. The only reason I carry is in case I find myself in this situation where deadly force has been brandished against me or those with me. I'm not a cop and I don't have to identify myself. I only have to defend life, period. The exercise is remembering to remain calm as possible and just do it as mechanically as possible. There is no time to make a decision or form the perfect stance. The idea is to eliminate a life-threat. That decision to act has to be made many months before it ever happens.

jkelly1229 · Jun 1, 2017

Vagrant said:
Serious question, should you draw your gun if bad guy already had his gun pointed at you? I'm no Tom Cruise from the movie Collateral.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I mean what else are u gunna do piss your pants and hide in the corner. Obviously each situation is different but I'd rather my obit say died going for his gun than died with a gun on him

Guy points gun at robber, robber shoots good guy

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