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"Guns...not my thing. I'm not a huge fan of that amendment."

BBQ.Uncle said:
Ray-500, thank you. I'll take credit for my beliefs about natural selection, but I can't take credit for the "history lesson". It's been around for awhile and I believe the author is unknown. Still, it's a damn fine little essay, if tongue in cheek, about the basic differences between those two groups.
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Yes, it is a good reminder, tongue-in-cheek or not. Thank you. The differences speak for themselves.
 
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law dawg said:
I can't make someone care about guns. Hell, I'm no fan of religion for the most part, to be honest. I think organized religion has been used to do so much harm in the world.

That said, I fully support anyone's religion of choice, so long as they don't try and tell me how I should live. I expect other people to have the same opinion with my stand on guns - they may not care about the issue personally, but don't go trying to restrict my choice.

Just my bullshit opinion. I'm usually wrong, though, so take it all with less than a grain of salt.
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I kinda like your bullshit opinion. Probably because I agree with it. Funny how that happens, huh? [wink]
 
Rob87 said:
".....Second, I've noticed it's really quite difficult for some Republicans to grasp the concept that GUNS aren't the most important things on many Democrats' list of priorities...."
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Given that it's the Socialist Democrats who continually look for ways to deny us our unalienable RIGHT to bear arms, I find it rather funny that you contend that GUNS aren't the most important thing to them.

Of course one could make the argument that taking our wealth and distributing it to those who refuse to earn their own might be THE most important thing the Socialist Democrat's list of priorities.

OK I'll give you that. Extorting our money is first, taking our guns is second.
 
law dawg said:
I can't make someone care about guns. Hell, I'm no fan of religion for the most part, to be honest. I think organized religion has been used to do so much harm in the world.

That said, I fully support anyone's religion of choice, so long as they don't try and tell me how I should live. I expect other people to have the same opinion with my stand on guns - they may not care about the issue personally, but don't go trying to restrict my choice.

Just my bullshit opinion. I'm usually wrong, though, so take it all with less than a grain of salt.
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No, you're not wrong....but there are those who would FORCE their belief on you. Doesn't matter whether guns, religion, politics...or anything else. Key word is "force". [wink]
 
MassBites said:
Given that it's the Socialist Democrats who continually look for ways to deny us our unalienable RIGHT to bear arms, I find it rather funny that you contend that GUNS aren't the most important thing to them.

Of course one could make the argument that taking our wealth and distributing it to those who refuse to earn their own might be THE most important thing the Socialist Democrat's list of priorities.

OK I'll give you that. Extorting our money is first, taking our guns is second.
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Aw...c'mon now. "Spreading the wealth around" is a good thing. What do you need guns for? The govt. will take care of you. Don't you know these things? [wink]
 
Rob87 said:
First, more than half of the people I know who carry or want to carry are Liberals, vote Democratic, and about a third of them campaigned for Obama.

Second, I've noticed it's really quite difficult for some Republicans to grasp the concept that GUNS aren't the most important things on many Democrats' list of priorities. There are more issues than just the Second Amendment.

Third, some Republicans do just about everything possible they can do to alienate Democrats who want to shoot from getting into it. It's pretty disheartening when I tell people to come here, and then they end up declining once they see what the gun community thinks of them.

I think it's awful how many people in the gun community lump all Democrats and Liberals into the same boat, and thus scare those that are on our side away. What kind of message does that send about gun owners?

It's soooo nice being a Libertarian. I never feel the urge to tell others they're wrong. [laugh]
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When I run into people mouthing off about "liberals," which btw means nothing like what most people I read on this forum seem to think it means, I just shake my head.

We recently went to a gun-related event and my wife, a new and eager shooter damn near walked out because she was tired of listening to all the crap-slinging about "those stupid, spineless, lazy liberals."

I can think of plenty of people who might have been interested in shooting who would have walked away and donated to the Brady Campaign after being subjected to the crap we had to listen to at that event, which was supposed to be about guns and shooting, not a revival meeting for the GOP faithful.

With "pro-gun" idiots like the nimrod hosting the event, the antis don't need the Brady Campaign's advertising. We'll do ourselves more harm than they ever could.
 
Rob87 said:
Well, Democrats are always the ones that want to help people. They have a heart. Republicans just want to discriminate against homos and torture people.

[popcorn]
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I hope your being sarcastic. I don't know how making people slaves to the state is helping them. if the reset button was pushed tomorrow most people in blue states would not know what to do. They would just lay down and die because the state supported them and they never became self sufficient.Democrats are doing these people a disservice by wiping there mouthes for them and pampering and not to mention letting them sit on there ass and take part of my pay check while I work to survive. The only "true" Conservatives in my eyes are libertarians like Ron Paul. Even though they may have a "R" after there name that means nothing these days.
 
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Rob87 said:
Well, Democrats are always the ones that want to help people. They have a heart. Republicans just want to discriminate against homos and torture people.

[popcorn]
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Are you serious?.....or just pulling my leg? [grin] Not sure how to take you.
 
evan9201 said:
I hope your being sarcastic. I don't know how making people slaves to the state is helping them. if the reset button was pushed tomorrow most people in blue states would not know what to do. They would just lay down and die because the state supported them and they never became self sufficient.Democrats are doing these people a disservice by wiping there mouthes for them and pampering and not to mention letting them sit on there ass and take part of my pay check while I work to survive. The only "true" Conservatives in my eyes are libertarians like Ron Paul. Even though they may have a "R" after there name that means nothing these days.
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Wow, it's just amazing how much money you must make to support all the people on welfare... Seriously, "most people in the blue states" are supported by the state and not self reliant? [rofl2]

Your knowledge of the demographics of this country (not to mention the actual budget of all welfare programs) is simply...stupendous.[hmmm]
 
Bill Nance said:
Wow, it's just amazing how much money you must make to support all the people on welfare... Seriously, "most people in the blue states" are supported by the state and not self reliant? [rofl2]

Your knowledge of the demographics of this country (not to mention the actual budget of all welfare programs) is simply...stupendous.[hmmm]
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Grin, I think there may be a disconnect. As a total, there are approx. 35-40 percent of the total population who pay no income tax. Forget about the so-called "payroll tax" (FICA)...am speaking of "income tax". Are these figures incorrect?
 
I can think of plenty of people who might have been interested in shooting who would have walked away and donated to the Brady Campaign after being subjected to the crap we had to listen to at that event, which was supposed to be about guns and shooting, not a revival meeting for the GOP faithful.

With "pro-gun" idiots like the nimrod hosting the event, the antis don't need the Brady Campaign's advertising. We'll do ourselves more harm than they ever could.
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They can't be that interested in shooting or rights if they walk away as you suggest and donate to the Brady Campaign. If they are interested in our rights, they are probably not liberals as most people describe them here either. Perhaps those you described just have a liberal point of view on certain things! Donations to the Brady Bunch just makes them Asshats!
 
Bill Nance said:
Wow, it's just amazing how much money you must make to support all the people on welfare... Seriously, "most people in the blue states" are supported by the state and not self reliant? [rofl2]

Your knowledge of the demographics of this country (not to mention the actual budget of all welfare programs) is simply...stupendous.[hmmm]
Click to expand...

Actually, you will be suprised how easy it is to get on Fed. Disability for some things, and even for a State.

Alcoholic- Check (knew 3 people personally on it for this, one who was my neighbor)
Drug Addict - Check (knew 1 person on it personally)

I have had to deal with 3 separate States now and one prevalent theme of all three is that the more desire you have to work the LESS help you get to try and get off of Disability. The LESS you want to rehab. the more they want to give you.

Example, this person is personally known to me and I talk/see her frequently. She is a single mother with 2 kids and instead of staying at home collecting welfare she is out trying to earn a living with a job. State CUTS her benefits, especially the program for cheap babysitting. Now she is actually upset that she may be FORCED by the State/Gov't to go onto welfare since she can't work the amount of hours for childcare AND goto school to get a degree to get a better job.
 
Rob87 said:
Well, Democrats are always the ones that want to help people. They have a heart. Republicans just want to discriminate against homos and torture people.

[popcorn]
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Dammit, Rob, I'm beginning to really like you. But ah...you left out some of the better stuff. Don't forget that the Republicans were the real perpetrators of 9/11. It wasn't raghead terrorists at all. It was the Republican run, Federal Government and George Bush!

Maybe Carl Rove had a hand in it too. I dunno. But he has a hand in everything, so he probably pushed the plunger that set off the explosions in the WTC towers and all the other buildings that came down. And then he chartered a helicopter (dare I say a black one?[wink]) and flew to the Pentagon and pushed the plunger there too! And then, like this is rilly rilly tubular man, but then he ordered the military to shoot down UA flight 93 and then he flew over the wreckage straddling a UAV to make sure no one survived who could expose the Republican conspiracy.

And everybody knows that Republicans care about nothing but blood for oil, even though it was Jacques Chrirack who originally coined that phrase while he, and many other Socialist Euroweenies, were filling their pockets with bribe money and oil vouchers from Saddam Insane as tens of thousands of Iraqi citizen's blood flowed under the despot's terror reign. But nevermind that. Everybody knows that people died cuz Republican's lied. [wink]

Yep. I do like your wry sense of humor. Seriously. [cheers]
 
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Skald said:
Alcoholic- Check (knew 3 people personally on it for this, one who was my neighbor)
Drug Addict - Check (knew 1 person on it personally)
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Update your information. Social Security stopped paying these claims in the mid 1990s under the Clinton Administration.

Skald said:
Example, this person is personally known to me and I talk/see her frequently. She is a single mother with 2 kids and instead of staying at home collecting welfare she is out trying to earn a living with a job. State CUTS her benefits, especially the program for cheap babysitting. Now she is actually upset that she may be FORCED by the State/Gov't to go onto welfare since she can't work the amount of hours for childcare AND goto school to get a degree to get a better job.
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Yep, there are lazy people who expect a hand-out. this isn't new and it's actually improved a lot since the 1996 welfare reforms went in. If you're happy living in poverty and you qualify (meaning essentially you have kids because getting welfare as a single, able-bodied man is hugely difficult) )you can do it for five years.

As of 2008, the total cost of Medicaid, AFDC, unemployment benefits, food stamps, children's health program was about $450 billion out of a three trillion dollar budget. The vast majority of that was medicaid and unemployment benefits. Actual AFDC and food stamp spending is a relatively tiny portion of the US budget.

No one wants to support deadbeats and there are plenty out there.
There are also plenty of people who get these benefits because there are simply no jobs to be had and they don't stay on welfare for very long.

Personally I can attest that when I first became totally disabled, Social Security Disability had a 2-year waiting list. After going through my entire savings and I was forced to get welfare. I couldn't get unemployment benefits because I was unable to work. I got $330 a month plus $110 in food stamps for a year and a half until I recovered enough to go back to work. Absent a welfare program I would have starved. My employer didn't offer disability insurance and I wasn't making enough money at the time to pay for one out of pocket. After (at the time) 25 years of full time employment, about $200,000 in social security taxes paid if you count in 5% average annual return and being a good citizen there was NO other option. You'd be surprised how many people are in the same or similar boat.

I've been able to work, on and off, for 15 years now. Some years I can't work at all due to illness and I live on savings. Some years I can and I do, and I make pretty good money. I could have filed again for SSDI and made more money than I make on average as it is and I haven't because I just don't want to when I can still work enough to get by, even though it's meant some very lean times.

I think I'm far from the exception.

Making blanket statements, which is what I was objecting to, is inaccurate and only reinforces the myth that most people on welfare are lazy welfare cheats. That's not true in my experience.
 
Lets not forget about the other programs being abused

Healthcare
Food Stamps
Section 8

Even people not on the welfare system are getting these and while some may need the help there are a hell of a lot that are screwing the system with under the table, non tax reporting incomes.
 
Bill Nance said:
Update your information. Social Security stopped paying these claims in the mid 1990s under the Clinton Administration.



Yep, there are lazy people who expect a hand-out. this isn't new and it's actually improved a lot since the 1996 welfare reforms went in.
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It's improved tremendously, despite the left's opposition, nay-saying and hysterical predictions of disaster if the Welfare Reform Act were to pass.

By the way, you do know that Congressional Republicans (after they had taken control of Congress) drafted and passed the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. The national debate over welfare reform did not take shape until 1994, when the original "Personal Responsibility Act" was introduced in the House of Representatives as part of the Republican "Contract With America."

Though Clinton eventually signed it, he initially opposed it and attempted to undermine its passage.
 
Chugga chugga chugga, choo chooooooooooo.... Chooo... Whamm.... Clank.... pft... pft....
300px-Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg


[popcorn]
 
MassBites said:
It's improved tremendously, despite the left's opposition, nay-saying and hysterical predictions of disaster if the Welfare Reform Act were to pass.

By the way, you do know that Congressional Republicans (after they had taken control of Congress) drafted and passed the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. The national debate over welfare reform did not take shape until 1994, when the original "Personal Responsibility Act" was introduced in the House of Representatives as part of the Republican "Contract With America."

Though Clinton eventually signed it, he initially opposed it and attempted to undermine its passage.
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Actually Clinton ran on reforming welfare. It was one of the big promises he made during the 92 campaign.

However, I agree, I think the compromise worked out with Gingrich worked far better than the original proposal, and the Dems would never have passed it if they were still in control of the house. -Probably has a lot to do with why I voted Rep. in the 94 congressional elections:p
 
Back to the topic at hand...The far left loves to ignore three amendments: 2, 9 and 10.

-Not that the right is any better about 9 and 10. They're just as interested in telling us what to do as the left.
 

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