yanici
NES Member
Hate burst your bubble. Ain't gonna happen. Even if it made it through the General Court, do you really think the Governor would sign it?
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Gun Violence report in the hands of DeLeo
- Thread starter Satcom
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Hate burst your bubble. Ain't gonna happen. Even if it made it through the General Court, do you really think the Governor would sign it?
Does it matter? Return some of the pressure. We have a motivated group right now, time to leverage it.
Quiet
Banned
It was a Pyrrhic victory for the antis. They got next to nothing and schooled and mobilized the opposition like never before.
yanici
NES Member
I think the next thing up will be the election. We really need to watch for the AG candidates. The smart gun issue is looming.
From GOAL
There is no Massachusetts law that allows the state to create a database on firearms.
It is a common myth that gun registration is mandatory in Massachusetts. In fact, there is no such law that allows any agency to create a database on the private possession of firearms. There is transfer reporting law, but that is only so the state can make sure you have the correct license for the gun you have purchased.
There is no Massachusetts law that allows the state to create a database on firearms.
It is a common myth that gun registration is mandatory in Massachusetts. In fact, there is no such law that allows any agency to create a database on the private possession of firearms. There is transfer reporting law, but that is only so the state can make sure you have the correct license for the gun you have purchased.
Horrible
NES Member
When does the Senate vote on this crap?
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And all of those records of transfers are deleted once that is verified?
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And all of those records of transfers are deleted once that is verified?
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I would suggest focusing on the Senate. They still need to vote on this bill, lets not get distracted.
yanici
NES Member
Is it clear now that the Class B LTC is gone, with the passage of this bill or not?
E-FA 10 Issue
October 24, 2011 Update:
GOAL has received a letter from EOPS/FRB in regard to the use of paper FA10 forms. They wanted us to know that the only accepted paper form going forward will be the "official" numbered 3-part forms.
Please see the letter informing GOAL of this change here.
They also recommended the use of the electronic form available on their website.
At this time GOAL recommends that the online form is not used. Should you have any difficulties obtaining the official 3 part FA10 form, please contact the FRB here. or call them (617) 660-4782
June 22, 2011 Update:
We had a chance to review the new system and found many more concerns. What should have been a simple electronic version of the FA-10 form turned out to be an entire new website designed to gather information on lawful gun owners. As we reviewed the site, we quickly made a list of concerns:
There is no Massachusetts law that allows the state to create a database on firearms.
It is a common myth that gun registration is mandatory in Massachusetts. In fact, there is no such law that allows any agency to create a database on the private possession of firearms. There is transfer reporting law, but that is only so the state can make sure you have the correct license for the gun you have purchased.
What legislation gave the agency the authority to create the system?
To our knowledge there was no legislation mandate to create a brand new online system to track transfers. This seems very reminiscent of the MIRC’s system several years ago that suddenly came into existence with no legislative authority.
What funds were used and how were they allocated to create the system?
We cannot recall a line item or budgetary means by which such a project was authorized or funded.
When we tried to log on to the new system this is the message that appeared on the screen:
This Connection is Untrusted
You have asked Firefox to connect securely to mircs.chs.state.ma.us, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
Normally, when you try to connect securely, sites will present trusted identification to prove that you are going to the right place. However, this site's identity can't be verified.
What Should I Do?
If you usually connect to this site without problems, this error could mean that someone is trying to impersonate the site, and you shouldn't continue.
On the home page there is the following statement:
“It is unlawful to conduct a personal sale or transfer of a weapon to anyone other than an individual lawfully licensed in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.”
This statement is not accurate. Lawful persons may transfer firearms to FFLs in other states under certain circumstances. To imply that is no longer legal is very deceptive and confusing to gun owners.
On the following page there are several problems,
Personal Sale or Transfer
“Use this option if you are a Massachusetts resident and you sold or transferred a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun to another person or to a dealer, and you conducted the sale or transfer personally or through an agent.”
To our knowledge all Massachusetts Firearm Retailers are required to report any transfers to the state via the existing online system. Why would someone need to file through this system if they have already gone through a licensed retailer?
Registration
“Use this option if 1) you are a Massachusetts resident and you obtained a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from out of state 2) you recently moved to Massachusetts and you wish to record ownership of a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun or 3) you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.”
Again, there is no requirement in Massachusetts to “Register” any gun. There is only a reporting requirement to match the sale with the type of license. There is no law that allows agencies to compile databases on firearms that are owned.
In regard to 1), anyone who obtains a firearm (meaning handgun) from outside the state must do so through a dealer in Massachusetts and thus the reporting requirement should already have been met.
On 2), there is absolutely no statutory authority to collect information on firearms from people moving into the Commonwealth. Just because the FRB is stating “and you wish” does not make it legal to ask or to collect this information.
On 3), there is no requirement that anyone’s firearms be recorded with the state. It is only a requirement to report a transfer if it was done so after the date of the new law. If a person happens to own a gun that was in his/her possession prior to these laws being established, there is no statutory authority to collect that information.
Surrender Weapon to Police
“Use this option if you surrendered a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun to a police department because your firearms license has been denied, suspended, revoked or expired.”
There are no statutory matters dealing with a personal requirement to report confiscations to the state. Several years ago a GOAL supported bill required police to finally provide receipts.
Chapter 140, Section 131(m) The officer shall, at the time of confiscation, provide to the person whose firearm, rifle or shotgun has been confiscated, a written inventory and receipt for all firearms, rifles or shotguns confiscated and the officer and his employer shall exercise due care in the handling, holding and storage of these items. Any confiscated weapon shall be returned to the owner upon the renewal or reinstatement of such expired or suspended license within one year of such confiscation or may be otherwise disposed of in accordance with the provisions of section 129D. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply if such person has a valid license to carry firearms issued under section 131F.
Generate Firearms License Validation
“Use this option to produce proof that your license is valid before you purchase a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from another individual or before you purchase a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun at a gun show or other non-gun shop location.”
October 24, 2011 Update:
GOAL has received a letter from EOPS/FRB in regard to the use of paper FA10 forms. They wanted us to know that the only accepted paper form going forward will be the "official" numbered 3-part forms.
Please see the letter informing GOAL of this change here.
They also recommended the use of the electronic form available on their website.
At this time GOAL recommends that the online form is not used. Should you have any difficulties obtaining the official 3 part FA10 form, please contact the FRB here. or call them (617) 660-4782
June 22, 2011 Update:
We had a chance to review the new system and found many more concerns. What should have been a simple electronic version of the FA-10 form turned out to be an entire new website designed to gather information on lawful gun owners. As we reviewed the site, we quickly made a list of concerns:
There is no Massachusetts law that allows the state to create a database on firearms.
It is a common myth that gun registration is mandatory in Massachusetts. In fact, there is no such law that allows any agency to create a database on the private possession of firearms. There is transfer reporting law, but that is only so the state can make sure you have the correct license for the gun you have purchased.
What legislation gave the agency the authority to create the system?
To our knowledge there was no legislation mandate to create a brand new online system to track transfers. This seems very reminiscent of the MIRC’s system several years ago that suddenly came into existence with no legislative authority.
What funds were used and how were they allocated to create the system?
We cannot recall a line item or budgetary means by which such a project was authorized or funded.
When we tried to log on to the new system this is the message that appeared on the screen:
This Connection is Untrusted
You have asked Firefox to connect securely to mircs.chs.state.ma.us, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
Normally, when you try to connect securely, sites will present trusted identification to prove that you are going to the right place. However, this site's identity can't be verified.
What Should I Do?
If you usually connect to this site without problems, this error could mean that someone is trying to impersonate the site, and you shouldn't continue.
On the home page there is the following statement:
“It is unlawful to conduct a personal sale or transfer of a weapon to anyone other than an individual lawfully licensed in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.”
This statement is not accurate. Lawful persons may transfer firearms to FFLs in other states under certain circumstances. To imply that is no longer legal is very deceptive and confusing to gun owners.
On the following page there are several problems,
Personal Sale or Transfer
“Use this option if you are a Massachusetts resident and you sold or transferred a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun to another person or to a dealer, and you conducted the sale or transfer personally or through an agent.”
To our knowledge all Massachusetts Firearm Retailers are required to report any transfers to the state via the existing online system. Why would someone need to file through this system if they have already gone through a licensed retailer?
Registration
“Use this option if 1) you are a Massachusetts resident and you obtained a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from out of state 2) you recently moved to Massachusetts and you wish to record ownership of a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun or 3) you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.”
Again, there is no requirement in Massachusetts to “Register” any gun. There is only a reporting requirement to match the sale with the type of license. There is no law that allows agencies to compile databases on firearms that are owned.
In regard to 1), anyone who obtains a firearm (meaning handgun) from outside the state must do so through a dealer in Massachusetts and thus the reporting requirement should already have been met.
On 2), there is absolutely no statutory authority to collect information on firearms from people moving into the Commonwealth. Just because the FRB is stating “and you wish” does not make it legal to ask or to collect this information.
On 3), there is no requirement that anyone’s firearms be recorded with the state. It is only a requirement to report a transfer if it was done so after the date of the new law. If a person happens to own a gun that was in his/her possession prior to these laws being established, there is no statutory authority to collect that information.
Surrender Weapon to Police
“Use this option if you surrendered a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun to a police department because your firearms license has been denied, suspended, revoked or expired.”
There are no statutory matters dealing with a personal requirement to report confiscations to the state. Several years ago a GOAL supported bill required police to finally provide receipts.
Chapter 140, Section 131(m) The officer shall, at the time of confiscation, provide to the person whose firearm, rifle or shotgun has been confiscated, a written inventory and receipt for all firearms, rifles or shotguns confiscated and the officer and his employer shall exercise due care in the handling, holding and storage of these items. Any confiscated weapon shall be returned to the owner upon the renewal or reinstatement of such expired or suspended license within one year of such confiscation or may be otherwise disposed of in accordance with the provisions of section 129D. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply if such person has a valid license to carry firearms issued under section 131F.
Generate Firearms License Validation
“Use this option to produce proof that your license is valid before you purchase a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from another individual or before you purchase a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun at a gun show or other non-gun shop location.”
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Good point. Maybe we should encourage a bill to outlaw smart guns until they are proven to work by a police department?
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The bill hasn't passed yet, but assuming it does Class B is gone.
That would be the next logical step
Quiet
Banned
The next action isn't an awb repeal. The next action is to escort this bill through the senate without harmful amendments that will be rubber stamped in the house in conference.
IT IS TIME TO TALK TO THE SENATE
IT IS TIME TO TALK TO THE SENATE
ChevyGuy91
NES Member
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Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
Didn't say it was mandatory (they try to imply that), just that any gun that has had either an FA10 and many guns who had blue cards are in a database of "transfers" - some of the guns they showed me as owning recently were done on old blue cards. Most of the blue cards were destroyed but some got entered into the "non-existent" database. When they send you the list of every gun you have ever bought, it only lists the date and your license number and the serial number, to see the sale registration you have to request the original FA-10 form a few at a time.
Since it is not a database of guns you own, rather a verification of sales to you, why don't they list it by the name and license number of the person or gun shop you bought the gun from?
Any list (non-database database) of guns can be used for registration by a simple stoke of the pen, the data is there and available to you for $20
Serious question. Does the forum have the option of doing live chat meetings? Asynchronous threads start to lose efficacy, and there are numerous tools out there meant to facilitate a real-time meeting with a log.
It seems the gun rights folks (ie, NES members, GOAL supporters) need some more organization to be effective. The Nonsense Moms, for lack of numbers, seem to communicate well (I know one of them quite well).
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I'm emailing senators today. Does anybody know how the Senate Bill will be referenced (I assume not HB4278).
Yup.
http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/personal-search-request.pdf
Notice that the form says "search the FRB *DATABASE*".
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This is exactly correct.
Horrible
NES Member
You can not call it "Registration" if you want to, but the fact is that the law requires you to submit an FA-10 for every firearm you bring into the state if you move here and every firearm you have "transferred" to you. And they have and keep a record of this.
Explain to me how this is different than "Registering" your car.
My Rep. Dennis Rosa kept his word and voted no. According to the Globe we're all happy,happy.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...-state-laws/GzW9QWNOLmFszWf2wPLyNI/story.html
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...-state-laws/GzW9QWNOLmFszWf2wPLyNI/story.html
"There is no law that allows agencies to compile databases on firearms that are owned." But there is no law preventing them from using the transaction records in law enforcement activities?
There needs to be a court case that shows that an agency was using the records in some or anyway. Anybody get a ticket from one of the anecdotal interactions with a Traffic Stop?
OfficerObie59
NES Member
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The standard for restrictions is different, the reason for the restrictions has to be "unreasonable".
Someone start a thread about contacting the MA senators. No sense in beating a dead horse on this thread, the House already did their damage. You guys need to mitigate further damage.
Continue discussion here http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-HB4278-Going-to-the-Senate-(FID-Suitability)
Continue discussion here http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-HB4278-Going-to-the-Senate-(FID-Suitability)
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