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Gun Storage

However on the flip side of it Terminator03, you can't force someone not to do something "stupid". There could have been a lot of motivating factors. All you can do is teach them how it works, what to do, what not to do, and respect what the tool can do when properly or improperly used.

You can't teach against accidents or suicide - they'll happen, whether it's from running with scissors, jumping in front of a car, or getting a little liberal with a straight razor.

It's sad, but not a reason against something.
 
Emoto said:
Yup. Understood. One of my best friend's little brother did hang himself some years back.

Of course, had the gun been locked up, it couldn't have happened. (NOT arguing for safe storage laws; just showing a way around the problem).
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Unless the code to the safe was made.
 
The difficulty is it's relatively easy to predict codes from close family.

In my case, I know all of my mom's passwords and pin type numbers, not because she told me, but because I know her. I wonder though, biometric locks are usable...
 
davemata said:
The difficulty is it's relatively easy to predict codes from close family.

In my case, I know all of my mom's passwords and pin type numbers, not because she told me, but because I know her. I wonder though, biometric locks are usable...
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, of course. Too many people use something for a password that anyone could guess, like a spouse's name, for example. I like to think that we here are beyond that. Still, for those new to the idea of security, one should never use something like a phone number, address, child's name, etc., that someone who knows something about you could guess.

Personally, I like mechanical combination locks, and those tend to come with numbers unrelated to the owner.
 
Wow this turned into a great discussion.

I am also in the middle of introducing my girlfriend to firearms and she has the "Guns are bad" mentality, which I find very strange because she is from VT. Anyways, she doesn't object to me owning firearms or having them in the house which is good. It helped though that the first firearms to enter the house were given to me by my father on Christmas (girlfriend was present when I unwrapped them). He gave me my Ruger 10/22 that I had learned to shoot on when I was probably somewhere between 8 and 10 years old and also a Winchester Model 1890 which has been in my fathers side of the family for a little over 100 years now. Anyways shortly after I picked up my first handgun and a GunVault to keep in the house. I told her that there is a small safe in the (insert room here) and she just said "Yeah I saw it". Since then my collection has grown a bit and have a large locked container that they are in. Anyways she seems intrigued by them on the rare occasion that I might have one out she looks, doesn't touch, but looks like she wants to. I told her that I am going to have her go to the range with me sometime so that I can teach her, and she can experience it. She hasn't objected. I think when around the house and we aren't doing anything I am going to tell her I think it is a good time to learn a little about them and safety in handling. Teach her some to get her more comfortable and bring her to the range soon after so she can watch me and then try herself on my .22 pistol (since there's about 4 feet of snow on the outdoor range making it a hassle to teach on my Ruger 10/22. Hoping it goes well and she becomes more comfortable around them and me having them in the house, and on me.

On a side note it is imperative that if there are children in a home with firearms that you educate them on them and what to do if they ever come across one. Children have toy guns and know that they are toys, but if not educated they also think real guns are toys. This is when accidents happen! They need to be able to recognize a real firearm and know not to touch it and instead to find an adult, also not to let any other children they may be with touch it. I have been shooting from a very young age and my father has instilled in me what he thinks the best answer to the question "When is a gun not loaded?" is, and the answer he has drilled into me is "Never". It stresses that you ALWAYS treat a firearm as if it is loaded, even if you have inspected it and know that it is not loaded. Treating it as if it is loaded makes sure you always have it pointed in a safe direction and your finger is not on the trigger until ready to fire. I now understand why he did all this and am am grateful on how he educated me about them. Kids are curious by nature. Educate them to know what to do if they ever come across one and that they are not toys.
 
davemata said:
However on the flip side of it Terminator03, you can't force someone not to do something "stupid". There could have been a lot of motivating factors. All you can do is teach them how it works, what to do, what not to do, and respect what the tool can do when properly or improperly used.

You can't teach against accidents or suicide - they'll happen, whether it's from running with scissors, jumping in front of a car, or getting a little liberal with a straight razor.

It's sad, but not a reason against something.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I told my wife to diffuse the situation a bit. I just said that if it was truly a suicide, there is little to prevent someone from accomplishing that goal if their mind is set on it. I wish I knew the particulars about how the gun was accessed, and I will at some point address that with our friend. It's just one of those things that needs to be investigated "delicately" for obvious reasons. What's interesting, is for the last 13 year that we have known her, we were under the impression that it was a "car accident" because that was the story my wife had gotten from a coworker before we knew the lady well. For some reason the conversation never progressed beyond the fact the he was "gone", so we never had reason to suspect it was anything other than a car accident. It did lead to divorce for the parents, though, as she blamed him for having the gun in the first place, which made him indirectly responsible for the kid's death in her mind. Needless to say, when my wife brought up the fact that I was buying guns, and into shooting now, it made her feel the need to put my wife on alert for "what can happen" when you have guns in the house. At this point, my wife is fine with me having my pistol in the house as long as it is locked up at all times in the safe she made me purchase before the gun. The problem that I have is that she doesn't want our daughter to ever see, or know that there are guns in the house, which I feel is impossible. I told her that she is putting me in a "no win" situation. Hopefully once she gets her ltc, and I can get her to the range, she will lighten up a bit. I also plan to ask the instructor if he can tailor his lecture a bit to include some info regarding children, and how to properly instruct them, etc., so she can see the benefit of gunproofing the child, rather than childproofing the gun.
 
@B4TNUT, my wife is from VT too (the hippie part).

What is the take on the finger print scanners? Are they not reliable? In theory is seems like best way to ensure no one gets in but you.
 
snakedoc said:
@B4TNUT, my wife is from VT too (the hippie part).

What is the take on the finger print scanners? Are they not reliable? In theory is seems like best way to ensure no one gets in but you.
Click to expand...

Yeah you think the people of VT would be used to guns haha. Strange...

I saw a Mythbusters where they were able to fool most all the fingerprint scanners used to secure doors and things like that, so I don't know how reliable they would be if someone really wanted to get in... but they would need a copy of your fingerprint so they'd need to be determined.

For me anything that has something that I may need to egt to quickly and reliably I go for a manual mechanism. They are a lot less prong to malfunctioning than electronic mechanisms, they just have to many potential points of failure. I currently have a GunVault but want to get the small Fort Knox mechanical locking box for a handgun.
 
Terminator03 said:
That is exactly what I told my wife to diffuse the situation a bit. I just said that if it was truly a suicide, there is little to prevent someone from accomplishing that goal if their mind is set on it. I wish I knew the particulars about how the gun was accessed, and I will at some point address that with our friend. It's just one of those things that needs to be investigated "delicately" for obvious reasons. What's interesting, is for the last 13 year that we have known her, we were under the impression that it was a "car accident" because that was the story my wife had gotten from a coworker before we knew the lady well. For some reason the conversation never progressed beyond the fact the he was "gone", so we never had reason to suspect it was anything other than a car accident. It did lead to divorce for the parents, though, as she blamed him for having the gun in the first place, which made him indirectly responsible for the kid's death in her mind. Needless to say, when my wife brought up the fact that I was buying guns, and into shooting now, it made her feel the need to put my wife on alert for "what can happen" when you have guns in the house. At this point, my wife is fine with me having my pistol in the house as long as it is locked up at all times in the safe she made me purchase before the gun. The problem that I have is that she doesn't want our daughter to ever see, or know that there are guns in the house, which I feel is impossible. I told her that she is putting me in a "no win" situation. Hopefully once she gets her ltc, and I can get her to the range, she will lighten up a bit. I also plan to ask the instructor if he can tailor his lecture a bit to include some info regarding children, and how to properly instruct them, etc., so she can see the benefit of gunproofing the child, rather than childproofing the gun.
Click to expand...

Does she also favor "abstinence only" sex education? I don't actually want to know, as it is NOMB, but I would think that similar logic woudl hold. If sex is dangerous, and therefore one needs to educate a child in order for that child to remain safe, it would seem a parallel argument. OTOH, if it is an unreasoning fear, like spiders, then no logic will help, and feelings take time to change.
 
davemata said:
Unless the code to the safe was made.
Click to expand...

People make the mistake of picking well known numbers for combinations all the time out of fear they'll forget them. Realistically, it's quite possible to pick a number that would have meaning only to you. The trick is for it to mean something but not be part of an official record. Maybe it's an old address (not yours) that you remember or your old PacMan high score. It has to be something you will remember but not something others would know about you either because it's insignificant or very obscure.
 
Emoto said:
Does she also favor "abstinence only" sex education? I don't actually want to know, as it is NOMB, but I would think that similar logic woudl hold. If sex is dangerous, and therefore one needs to educate a child in order for that child to remain safe, it would seem a parallel argument. OTOH, if it is an unreasoning fear, like spiders, then no logic will help, and feelings take time to change.
Click to expand...

I actually think it's more of this type of situation, where logic would fail. This is why I feel only through direct exposure, will this ever be resolved, or at least made to be "reasonable".
 
Keep in mind, having a gun handy when the SHTF will do you no good, or her, if you aren't going to use it.
Showing the bad guy the gun won't stop him, you have to shoot. If you can't, or even hesitate, it will be better if it stays locked away.
 
Terminator03 said:
...she doesn't want our daughter to ever see, or know that there are guns in the house, which I feel is impossible...I also plan to ask the instructor if he can tailor his lecture a bit to include some info regarding children, and how to properly instruct them, etc., so she can see the benefit of gunproofing the child, rather than childproofing the gun.
Click to expand...

Ask her what happens when your daughter or one of her friends finds a gun somewhere else (friend's house, etc.) without the benefit of any firearm knowledge whatsoever. Guns exist in this world, and ignoring the fact doesn't change the likelihood that she will come in contact with an unsecured firearm at some point. Just as we teach children about the dangers of knives, hot stoves, power tools etc., with the proper knowledge, she may be able to prevent a tragedy. Here's a perfect example of the benefits of "gun-proofing the child"...

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/113192-OH-11-Year-Old-Finds-Gun-And...

ETA: Ayoob has a book on the subject that may help...

319KMDAV5JL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Proof-Children-Massad-Ayoobs-Handgun/dp/0936279052
 
TWtommers said:
People make the mistake of picking well known numbers for combinations all the time out of fear they'll forget them. Realistically, it's quite possible to pick a number that would have meaning only to you. The trick is for it to mean something but not be part of an official record. Maybe it's an old address (not yours) that you remember or your old PacMan high score. It has to be something you will remember but not something others would know about you either because it's insignificant or very obscure.
Click to expand...

LOL, which is why I use my parent's old ATM code from when I was growing up. I know what it signifies but recognize that it's ridiculous and no one would guess it.
 
You need to "repair" your wife's brain before buying a gun, dude... otherwise, this isn't going to end well.

-Mike
 
Kevlar said:
Ask her what happens when your daughter or one of her friends finds a gun somewhere else (friend's house, etc.) without the benefit of any firearm knowledge whatsoever. Guns exist in this world, and ignoring the fact doesn't change the likelihood that she will come in contact with an unsecured firearm at some point. Just as we teach children about the dangers of knives, hot stoves, power tools etc., with the proper knowledge, she may be able to prevent a tragedy. Here's a perfect example of the benefits of "gun-proofing the child"...

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/113192-OH-11-Year-Old-Finds-Gun-And...

ETA: Ayoob has a book on the subject that may help...

319KMDAV5JL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Proof-Children-Massad-Ayoobs-Handgun/dp/0936279052
Click to expand...

You know, I actually have used that very argument in support of why I should expose her to my firearms in the safe setting of our home. My wife is under the misguided assumption that just "telling" her that they are dangerous, and that you NEVER touch them, call for an adult, etc., etc., will be enough to protect her from harm. It's a very misguided thought process that I am working hard to combat. It would probably be easier if she was a dumb woman with little education, but much to my detriment, she has a measured IQ of 153. Not that it means a hell of a lot, but it does tend to make it difficult for me to reason with her at times. I will look into that book, as it may help in my situation - thanks.
 
davemata said:
Dunno there Mike, "repair" implies "broken". Just because she believes differently doesn't mean its broken.
Click to expand...

Wrong. It is broken behavior, and it will cause problems. A disagreement over this issue will cause a relationship failure later on anyways, so it needs to be fixed, or he needs to punch out. She can either choose to fix it in her own way (with a little bit of gentle guidance as above) or this will fester into cancer if untreated.

This isn't a "we can agree to disagree" thing, this is a "you can't bring a gun into our house" which is imposing her beliefs on him. She is treating him like a child because she's a hoplophobe. It'd be a different story if she said something like "Well, you can have all the guns you want but I want nothing to do with them".

I'm not even saying she has to "like" guns. That's not it at all- but someone who is completely intolerant of a creator endowed right, IMHO, is broken- and this is the vibe I am getting from the OP, if he's looking to store a gun outside of his house. Something is wrong with them. Period.

-Mike
 
I totally agree, Mike. Your term of it being "like a cancer" is quite accurate too inmo, because the op may agree to his wife's terms, but it is never right to be forced to do so. It also will not make the desire to own firearms go away, and that alone will build resentment on his part over time. For some reason, a lot of women just don't get it. They can self-destruct their own relationships by trying to impose their will on their husband.
 
drgrant said:
Wrong. It is broken behavior, and it will cause problems. A disagreement over this issue will cause a relationship failure later on anyways, so it needs to be fixed, or he needs to punch out. She can either choose to fix it in her own way (with a little bit of gentle guidance as above) or this will fester into cancer if untreated.

This isn't a "we can agree to disagree" thing, this is a "you can't bring a gun into our house" which is imposing her beliefs on him. She is treating him like a child because she's a hoplophobe. It'd be a different story if she said something like "Well, you can have all the guns you want but I want nothing to do with them".

I'm not even saying she has to "like" guns. That's not it at all- but someone who is completely intolerant of a creator endowed right, IMHO, is broken- and this is the vibe I am getting from the OP, if he's looking to store a gun outside of his house. Something is wrong with them. Period.

-Mike
Click to expand...

I agree with this completely. I went through this with a previous girlfriend of mine (not this exactly, because we did not live together). She did not like guns, and I found this out early on. We "agreed to disagree", but it ended up being a major point of contention all the way to the end nearly a year later. She didn't even like unloaded guns, and wasn't comfortable when she knew there was a firearm present (even if it were not visible, which was a real "problem" because I had friends with guns). It wasn't the kiss of death to our relationship, but it was a huge nail in the coffin.
 
davemata said:
Dunno there Mike, "repair" implies "broken". Just because she believes differently doesn't mean its broken.
Click to expand...

I think the assumption she's been programmed by liberals her whole life with nonsense. She needs to be taught common sense and shown her fears are unnecessary.

Mike is right....lack of trust issues, treating you like a child issues fester over time. It may seem little now, but over time, these things add up, and the resentment factor builds. Controlling relationships usually don't end well.....unless, well, you don't like your freedom.

I hear this shxt all the time, can't go to the strip joint, can't buy a gun, can't drink a few, can't hang a Fxcking deer head on the wall...WTF.....that's a recipe for midlife crisis if I ever heard one.....if these women would just let you live a little and trust that you'll be an adult and make good decisions, they'd have a lot less issues later with resentment.

Now if your an a**h*** and can't control yourself, or are missing family things to be at the bar, then you have a problem.......not them.
 
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Terminator03 said:
I totally agree, Mike. Your term of it being "like a cancer" is quite accurate too inmo, because the op may agree to his wife's terms, but it is never right to be forced to do so. It also will not make the desire to own firearms go away, and that alone will build resentment on his part over time. For some reason, a lot of women just don't get it. They can self-destruct their own relationships by trying to impose their will on their husband.
Click to expand...

At the same time we should also point out that this isn't just a "women" thing, either. I would bet dollars to doughnuts there are female gun owners out there who have had to deal with hoplophobic men, too. I have no doubt there are women out there who have had to deal with "Captain milquetoast von hoplophobe" as their boyfriend/husband. These women probably suffer in silence, though, for a variety of reasons. We just don't see it as much because the number of female gun owners is lower.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Wrong. It is broken behavior, and it will cause problems. A disagreement over this issue will cause a relationship failure later on anyways, so it needs to be fixed, or he needs to punch out. She can either choose to fix it in her own way (with a little bit of gentle guidance as above) or this will fester into cancer if untreated.

This isn't a "we can agree to disagree" thing, this is a "you can't bring a gun into our house" which is imposing her beliefs on him. She is treating him like a child because she's a hoplophobe. It'd be a different story if she said something like "Well, you can have all the guns you want but I want nothing to do with them".

I'm not even saying she has to "like" guns. That's not it at all- but someone who is completely intolerant of a creator endowed right, IMHO, is broken- and this is the vibe I am getting from the OP, if he's looking to store a gun outside of his house. Something is wrong with them. Period.

-Mike
Click to expand...

this

Yall need to straighten this out.
Keeping your guns outside the home is not the answer and should not be in the cards.
Don't be another chap who's wife's purse looks like this...
images


Have a chat and get a safe. A big safe. (non biometric)
 
drgrant said:
At the same time we should also point out that this isn't just a "women" thing, either. I would bet dollars to doughnuts there are female gun owners out there who have had to deal with hoplophobic men, too. I have no doubt there are women out there who have had to deal with "Captain milquetoast von hoplophobe" as their boyfriend/husband. These women probably suffer in silence, though, for a variety of reasons. We just don't see it as much because the number of female gun owners is lower.

-Mike
Click to expand...

+1 There are a lot of controlling a**h***s out there who don't trust their wives either.......and the same theory of relationship failure applies.....
 

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