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Gun Safes

This is where I give my standard comment that every gun safe under $2000 is garbage, at least compared to a commercial safe.

If you want a real safe for not a lot of money, go buy a used commercial safe. You can get them for PENNIES on the dollar.

To find one, go to craigslist, in the business section for "safe".

Doing so today will get you this as an example.

**this is a STEAL*** this is a $5000 safe. It is rated TL-15 and is among the best you ccan get.
Figure 1/2 inch of steel with an aggregate mixture and then a 12 ga interior, along with a 5/8 inch door.

This is the REAL DEAL. WOW. I wish I had room for this.

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bfs/6038779408.html
 
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There is also a guy in NH whose praises I've sung before. He advertises in Hartford, Boston and Southern NH craigslist.

I've personally purchased from him before. He has a ton of used safes at his place in manchester. He delivers and installs, and his rates to the boston area are very reasonable. (He quoted me $400 to deliver and put into my basement a 3500 lb TL30 Safe. )

Here is a current add.

https://hartford.craigslist.org/bfs/6038864937.html

The best way to find his ads is to search on his phone number: 603 264 0023
 
 
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leonoe said:
If you decide to go with one, take the door off when you are trying to get it into your house... it just lifts off the hinges and makes it lighter and easier to maneuver. Rented an open utility trailer and appliance dolly from UHaul and got a friend to help me. If you've ever moved a fridge, it's about the same... Do yourself a favor and change out the electronic lock to a manual dial lock BEFORE using the safe.
Click to expand...

My bad if it's a dumb question, but how come I keep to change electronic locks to manual. Failure/reliability issues?
 
1776 said:
Yes...reliability. Read the reviews of problems with electronic locks
Even these fail and need a drill template to open/destroy the safe http://www.fedsafes.com/X-10_locks.php
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I'm a dissenter on this one. If this is a safe you will open once a week, then fine. Mechanical is good. My TL rated safe has a mechanical lock. But I don't keep my day to day guns in it.

For something you use every day, get a quality electronic lock and change it every 10 years.

If it takes you 90 seconds to get into your safe, you won't put your guns away when you should. You also won't open it to take a gun out when you should.

Its not a trivial matter. I'm talking 5 seconds vs 60 seconds. Its a huge difference for a safe you open 2 or 3 times a day.

The safe where I keep my everyday carry firearms is a 30 inch tall x 24 inch wide x 24 inch deep safe I got from the guy in NH I referenced above. It weighs about 600 lbs, 400 with the door off. Its made of 1/2 inch plate with a 5/8 inch door. If the lock fails It will cost me $300 to have a locksmith get into it in a non-destructive way.

Oh well. For taking that risk, I get years of use where it takes me 5 seconds vs 60 seconds to get in. Over 5 years that's 3500 openings. That's almost SIXTY(!!!) extra HOURS of time spent opening the safe.

So yes, for something I open every day ,I'll go electronic and roll the dice.

Don
 
dcmdon said:
I'm a dissenter on this one. If this is a safe you will open once a week, then fine. Mechanical is good. My TL rated safe has a mechanical lock. But I don't keep my day to day guns in it.

For something you use every day, get a quality electronic lock and change it every 10 years.

If it takes you 90 seconds to get into your safe, you won't put your guns away when you should. You also won't open it to take a gun out when you should.

Its not a trivial matter. I'm talking 5 seconds vs 60 seconds. Its a huge difference for a safe you open 2 or 3 times a day.

The safe where I keep my everyday carry firearms is a 30 inch tall x 24 inch wide x 24 inch deep safe I got from the guy in NH I referenced above. It weighs about 600 lbs, 400 with the door off. Its made of 1/2 inch plate with a 5/8 inch door. If the lock fails It will cost me $300 to have a locksmith get into it in a non-destructive way.

Oh well. For taking that risk, I get years of use where it takes me 5 seconds vs 60 seconds to get in. Over 5 years that's 3500 openings. That's almost SIXTY(!!!) extra HOURS of time spent opening the safe.

So yes, for something I open every day ,I'll go electronic and roll the dice.

Don
Click to expand...

I went electronic for the time issue and we know anything can fail.
 
dcmdon said:
Its not a trivial matter. I'm talking 5 seconds vs 60 seconds. Its a huge difference for a safe you open 2 or 3 times a day.

Oh well. For taking that risk, I get years of use where it takes me 5 seconds vs 60 seconds to get in. Over 5 years that's 3500 openings. That's almost SIXTY(!!!) extra HOURS of time spent opening the safe.

So yes, for something I open every day ,I'll go electronic and roll the dice.

Don
Click to expand...


I dont beleive that 60 seconds in a day is going to take anything away from you in any particular day I do wonder why you need to enter your safe 3 times or more a day unless your pocketbook or shoes are in their too. Then I can see the correlation.
 
One other thing. I purchased one of these SecureRam EMP locks at SHOT show 2 years ago.

It was a royal pain in the butt to install without having to make modifications to the safe, but its possible. But it works as advertised. It is a convenient electronic lock with a dial lock backup. Its not cheap, but Its cheaper than calling a locksmith.

The only downside is that it seems to go through 9 volt batteries. I get about 9 months out of one. In contrast I change out the battery in the commercial S&G in a safe I have every 2 years even though it is working fine. I actually put it into a smoke detector, then change it out after 2 more years.

But still, the secure ram EMP works well and the dial backup is nice.

Don
 
I looked at the SecURams at Show in 2016 and they told me they only had swing bolt configurations, not the more common draw bolt style (which is what is used on my safe)
 
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watchman said:
I dont beleive that 60 seconds in a day is going to take anything away from you in any particular day I do wonder why you need to enter your safe 3 times or more a day unless your pocketbook or shoes are in their too. Then I can see the correlation.
Click to expand...

What if someone is banging on your door at 3 o'clock in the morning? The pistol might need some help from the shotgun, when seconds count.
 
RHJJ said:
What if someone is banging on your door at 3 o'clock in the morning? The pistol might need some help from the shotgun, when seconds count.
Click to expand...

Nahh my dog bites and he is pretty big and then the wife .. ohhh the wife .. double hurt .. the shotgun would just save the guy.
 
watchman said:
I dont beleive that 60 seconds in a day is going to take anything away from you in any particular day I do wonder why you need to enter your safe 3 times or more a day unless your pocketbook or shoes are in their too. Then I can see the correlation.
Click to expand...

You aren't really much of a student of human nature.

Its not a conscious decision. Its a matter of convenience. Oh. I'm just running out for a minute. Let me grab my pocket gun. Nah. I'll just put my big gun in the closet it will only be a minute.

vs

beep beep beep beep beep. Put in big gun. Grab pocket gun. close door.

It makes a difference.

Do you have children? Are you a busy person?

For me its 2 to 3 times a day. At a bare minimum its Get up. open safe get gun. Go to bed , get gun.

Probably 50% of the time there is an exchange at some point in the day where I swap a gun for a larger or smaller one.
Then there are the times my wife goes in to grab a piece of jewelry.

Which by the way she said she would never keep jewelry in the safe if she had to spin a dial every time. So with an electronic lock the ewelry lives in the safe. If it was mechanical, it would live in her dresser.

So no. its not a matter of "what do a couple of extra minutes per day really mean". its really about human nature and when those extra couple of minutes occur. (when you are getting up or going to bed or leavin the house).

And again. In 5 years, you save 60 hours of time with an electronic lock if you use it twice per day. That is significant.

I don't know about you, but my time is worth more than $5 per hour. (If you assume the lock will fail every 5 years and cost $300 to break into the safe. )
 
Its not a conscious decision. Its a matter of convenience. Oh. I'm just running out for a minute. Let me grab my pocket gun. Nah. I'll just put my big gun in the closet it will only be a minute.
Click to expand...
One of the biggest mistakes one could make in the middle ages was not putting on the armor and grabbing the lance because you were just going to the corner store for a quart of milk.
 
dcmdon said:
You aren't really much of a student of human nature.
Click to expand...

In a way your correct but your wrong. I am living my life for the time and moment not for what I may gain in the future. Good luck in 5 years if your still here.
 
Wait until Black Friday and shop at Dicks Sporting Goods. Crazy deals on quality good sized safes. Especially if you said $600. It works out perfect. Its all you need.
 
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dcmdon said:
Most RSC quality safes will work fine with either.

For a high security safe, I'd stick with whatever the safe came with.
Click to expand...

Safe locks come in two basic "styles" - swing bolt and draw bolt*. The operation of each is integral to the design of the lockwork inside the safe, so it it not generally practical to replace a draw bolt lock with a swing bolt (or vice versa).

It is easier to make a swing bolt electronic lock since the only mechanical movement is to unblock with swinging bolt, whereas a draw bolt lock must retract the bolt into the case. In the LaGard swing bolt on one of my safes, an internal part only moves less than 1/4" (probably more like 1/8") to unblock the swing.

The SecuRam rep at the 2016 Shot Show told me they only make swing bolt locks.

I assume you were referring to "mechanical or electronic" rather than "swing bolt or draw bolt".

Recent research suggests consumer and standard commercial digital locks are subject to electronic analysis, and there are devices coming on the market that can claim to analyze and open these in about 15 minutes. Research suggests this is indeed possible (electronic variance such as current draw depending on entry of correct vs incorrect digit). The electronic lock that solves all these issues is the Kaba-Mas X-10 (corrected, originally said X-11), but that runs about $1500.

If you go mechanical, spring the extra for the S&G with the brass wheels rather than the low end one with the Zymac (fancy name for zinc alloy) wheels.

* - Draw bolts come in a standard style that blocks/unblocks a mechanism, and one with mroe force that can actually pull a mechanism. This variety often has taps for bolts (the round threaded kind) in the end of the lock bolt (rectangular piece of metal).
 
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Claybreaker! said:
Wait until Black Friday and shop at Dicks Sporting Goods. Crazy deals on quality good sized safes. Especially if you said $600. It works out perfect. Its all you need.
Click to expand...

That ship has sailed and there's no way I'm waiting until the end of this year. I should've thought of that last year though.
 
I mean... I do see the advantage of electronic safes for speedy access, but on the flip side... Whether sooner or later if that thing fails to open just ONE time it wasn't worth it. God forbid SHTF, you're in serious trouble. Just my opinion.
 
You probably will not find any other detail on the X-09 and X-10 than what you find on the link, unless you have a contract that requires a need to know.
I would only go with an electronic lock if it had a key backup. X-07's are on e-bay $170. The X-09 listed on the 5 drawer class 6 most likely has buyer restrictions. Just contact the GSA for more info per the NISPOM!
All these cabinets are intended to be in a monitored alarm system environment. The response time to an alarm should determine the type of safe chosen. The OC gas devices are immediate and as low as $70. They'll probably be used as often as you will need to use your CC on someone.

http://www.fedsafes.com/X-10_locks.php

If all else fails. Try this: SIRI...Initiate self destruct sequence
 
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JayCaliber said:
I mean... I do see the advantage of electronic safes for speedy access, but on the flip side... Whether sooner or later if that thing fails to open just ONE time it wasn't worth it. God forbid SHTF, you're in serious trouble. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

There are several dual safe locks on the market for this specific reason/concern. Below is one of them. My question is the 4-wire is fairly easily accessible. So how accessible it it to attack? I believe it locks out after a couple failed attemps. I also heard about those black boxes that you can buy to quickly get into cheaper electric lock safes .




http://www.securamsys.com/safelogic-xtreme-c1vk0
 
Interesting turn of conversation. I just bought a S&G D class lock to replace my mechanical for ease of CHANGING the combination. Takes me too long to change then mechanical lock combo, and I change it every 2 months.....
 
CoastieRon said:
Interesting turn of conversation. I just bought a S&G D class lock to replace my mechanical for ease of CHANGING the combination. Takes me too long to change then mechanical lock combo, and I change it every 2 months.....
Click to expand...

What's the purpose of changing the combo so much? My wife and I are the only ones that know it and can gain access.
 

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