"Gun Recovery and Safe Keeping Membership Club": Alternative to Bonded Warehouse loss

[DarkJoker33]

I've always thought about something similar but with a crisis structure.
Having picked up a firearm here or there in the dead of night for a friend that was having a hard time there should be legal places to turn when you don't trust yourself but you trust the police less.

As an example, I have an acquaintance who called me at 2 AM on a Friday night a few years ago, his parents had both recently passed and his wife was really struggling with cancer and wasn't expected to make it. He said "Hey man, I'm sorry its late, but I need you to come get my guns" I brought over two cold beers, offered to listen, left about an hour later with a LTC in an envelope, a note loaning the firearms to me, and two firearms.

Story turns out happily, his wife beat cancer, he's doing better and is back to his normal self and everything was returned no problem. If he'd made that call to the police he'd never get the chance to compete in another competition or ring steel at 1000y again.

That's exactly the business I posted in this thread earlier is for. Things of that nature.

And the owners are 2a gun people.
Not just a random person looking to cash in

 

[Emacs]

Why not just a "good" bonded warehouse? What does that take? Or is that what we're talking about? TLDR

You need to have a good relationship with the police chief, meaning...

 

[Rob Boudrie]

20 bucks/year for drop everything and run out the door service 24/7? so it's a charity and the 20 dollar membership fee and other storage fees if needed are tax deductible. if it were me....ahhh, but it's not.

No, $20/year for an insurance policy (though can't use that term, regulations and all) wherein the collectible benefit is the service.

Or, just make good friends with your local shop and keep the owners cell# on speed dial.

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

Has confiscation become that much of a threat in MA that such extremes are necessary? My home state, Illinois, has tough gun laws but I never heard the terms "bonded warehouse" and "thefthouse" being used there.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I prefer "Gun Recovery And Bailment" - GRAB.

A dealer does not have to be bonded to take guns at your direction. The problem is getting the PD to play ball. Thefthouses compete on convenience to the PD, not value and service to the consumer. Plus, there is the issue of the honorarium kicked back to the PD or involved officer for getting guns to the thefthouse (Dollar denominated credits that can be used to buy guns from the thefthouse). Yes, really - we have proof of the later from Dowd's business.

There is no real definition of "bonded" or what needs to be protected by the bond. It is insurance on the guns or just a bond against the malfeasance by the owner (theft beyond what the law allows). I think it was put into the law just because it sounded good to those writing it .... sort of like "zoobow" in another part of MGL.

 

[Toast]

I know a way to save you 15% or more

Actually, switching to that saved us nearly 50% on our auto policy (they ignored my wife's 2 mph fender bender that the other companies were using to justify a shotload of lost credits and extra fees). However, at the end of the year, the homeowner's company refused to continue our policies (house and umbrella) if they weren't writing the auto policy as well. We switched those over to the other folks, who were noticeably more expensive for those products. Still ended up better overall, but not as much as that first year.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

How do you get past the PDs response "Thanks, but we hare happy with the bonded warehouse we use as it provides excellent service to the department" and possible "plus we like the kickbacks from the warehouse".

 

[CATI]

I talked to two people who spend everyday in MA courthouses. (not attorneys/judges) Neither knew what a ERPO/ Extreme Risk Protection Order was. I thought it would be a everyday thing in MA. They did know / were involved in the RO process and were aware of the gun grab although they thought the firearms just stayed with the police.

 

[drgrant]

I don't have time for this. I don't have storage, a truck, and I'm not going to be on call for anyone.

It's not coercive if you agree to the terms.

When the PD dumps your stuff at a Bonded Warehouse - that is much, much worse.

All married men should be first to sign up for membership...

At the first sign the wife if looking to screw you over - get rid of the guns FIRST - THEN kick her to the curb.

If time is on your side - you can save money by transporting the collection yourself to the Membership FFL.

You'll know all your fees ahead of time.

Don't even tell your whore wife that the guns are not in the safe.
That way when she tells the cops how your threatened to blow her head off and she says you put the gun back in the safe...

The cops will come over right away to confiscate your gun and when you open up the safe - suddenly the guns are all missing.

She'll vomit on the floor at the sight of an empty safe when she knows the cops know she lied to get you arrested.

Any FFL will pick up guns + store (for whatever fees they charge) if its a "typical" scenario. This isn't a "new" idea. Any gun owner can
network with their FFLs and see if either:

A- they do PD pickups for confiscated guns
B- they do Pre-surrender pickups (kopsch havent come yet to steal guns/gun owner hasn't been served, but gun owner facing divorce or other BS wants to get ahead)
and
C- what they would charge

The problem with the BW thing is the PD chooses the BW and the shit goes there. There is no choice by the "consumer".

Your idea does absolutely nothing to fix the BW problem. Even if the desired dealer is a BW, theres no reliaiblity/surety in a PD sending stuff to that
specific BW. There is no "please mr occifer send my shit to BW X pls" the PD literally gets to do whatever they want WRT picking the BW. An anti gun PD will always pick the
shittiest BW that gives them the best kickbacks/belly rubs.

 

[drgrant]

definitely not "every." some towns use bonded warehouses; others don't.

find out how many cities regularly use the thefthouses, then find out how many cases they actually produce per year, and you can start to get a feel for how big a market this is. I'd not be surprised if only red cities are particularly likely to take part in the program, because they're the ones that hate private ownership so much.

From my limited research there are two paths to a BW

-PD is anti gun and wants to f*** someone extra hard
or
-PD doesn't have enough storage and will defer to BW whenever they can.

Either way the BW hurries before the accused can get their shit together so they can start the rape train.

The 2nd path usually allows the accused at least some window to "do something" but is not always guaranteed.

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

From my limited research there are two paths to a BW

-PD is anti gun and wants to f*** someone extra hard
or
-PD doesn't have enough storage and will defer to BW whenever they can.

Either way the BW hurries before the accused can get their shit together so they can start the rape train.

The 2nd path usually allows the accused at least some window to "do something" but is not always guaranteed.

This sounds nasty! I am getting a real education here. Thought IL was bad; this is worse! OK, you collected firearms all your life and amassed a very valuable (high five-figure $$) collection. Much of this occurred during marriage. Wife runs off with coworker and files a restraining order behind your back. You are sitting at the dinner table when you get the knock on the door. All guns get taken, tossed into a transport van and off to the "thefthouse". Fees mount during the divorce, which takes a least a year to settle. You have no more cash to get the guns back. Thefthouse declares a forfeit and keeps them. Did (now-ex) wife just squander a very valuable marital asset? Has this issue ever arisen in court?

 

[413dan]

this guy I took the Utah CCW class from a few years back has a youtube podcast thing he does. usually a new video pops up and the synopsis of the video is somewhat there. I remember reading a snippet recently that is sorta like what reptile is talking about? this video seemed like it was similar. this woman founded something called Hold My Guns

from the description:
"Sarah started a nonprofit organization called Hold My Guns. Hold My Guns is working with firearms stores to be able to hold on to people’s firearms when they’re going through difficult times in life. So if someone is going through a difficult divorce, or suffering with depression, PTSD, or some challenging life event, a gun store can safely and securely store the firearms until a later date. It’s a really great idea and Sarah is working to get gun stores on board to make this happen."

if anyone is so inclined to view
View: https://youtu.be/Vpba7r6bgn8

 

[drgrant]

This sounds nasty! I am getting a real education here. Thought IL was bad; this is worse! OK, you collected firearms all your life and amassed a very valuable (high five-figure $$) collection. Much of this occurred during marriage. Wife runs off with coworker and files a restraining order behind your back. You are sitting at the dinner table when you get the knock on the door. All guns get taken, tossed into a transport van and off to the "thefthouse". Fees mount during the divorce, which takes a least a year to settle. You have no more cash to get the guns back. Thefthouse declares a forfeit and keeps them. Did (now-ex) wife just squander a very valuable marital asset? Has this issue ever arisen in court?

Usually if you can swing action quickly (to get your guns to another ffl or a licensed friend family member from the BW) you can limit the hosing but its still ridiculous. It would not shock me if a minimum storage take (including in/out fees) at a BW was $100/gun for say a week or two. Basically the BW bank on people's lives being chaos and then in a few months the guns become worthless (because of the debt owed) and then they eventually own them....

 

[Wickedcoolname]

I tried to help buddy who lost his guns due to a restraining order. That turned into a 2 year shit show and multiple court appearances and numerous trips to the PD. Not to mention getting stuck between the couple. Never, ever again.
I wouldn't blame any FFL who would run as fast as possible from any business plan involving confiscated guns.

 

[Drix]

Usually if you can swing action quickly (to get your guns to another ffl or a licensed friend family member from the BW) you can limit the hosing but its still ridiculous. It would not shock me if a minimum storage take (including in/out fees) at a BW was $100/gun for say a week or two. Basically the BW bank on people's lives being chaos and then in a few months the guns become worthless (because of the debt owed) and then they eventually own them....

A few years ago a friend ended up with arms in a bonded warehouse, he said it was to the tune of $40 or so per gun in processing fees to enter the warehouse and another $40 or so to exit, and then about $10 a day per gun in storage, I think he said at the end of the month the warehouse could sell your crap to "recoup their losses".

One of the lawyers might have better numbers, but they truly rape people when they're at their worst.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Usually if you can swing action quickly (to get your guns to another ffl or a licensed friend family member from the BW) you can limit the hosing but its still ridiculous. It would not shock me if a minimum storage take (including in/out fees) at a BW was $100/gun for say a week or two. Basically the BW bank on people's lives being chaos and then in a few months the guns become worthless (because of the debt owed) and then they eventually own them....

You are forgetting the third fee. In addition to in and out fees, there is a transfer to third party fee (at least Dowd had one). The actual daily fee was $.50 per gun.

 

[Keeper]

How about just a list of numbers of FFL's (and their locations) in a sticky post that have helped in these situations? Seems like the most important thing you can do is at least get an FFL to the PD ASAP.

Do they need some type of authorization? Could a friend get them from the PD?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

How about just a list of numbers of FFL's (and their locations) in a sticky post that have helped in these situations? Seems like the most important thing you can do is at least get an FFL to the PD ASAP.

Do they need some type of authorization? Could a friend get them from the PD?

For a 209A, No.

For any other type of confiscation where the guns are not being held as evidence, Yes.

One of the benefits of doing all your business with one FFL is you can sometimes get a good relationship, and have an understanding that the FFL will make a high priority run to fetch your guns.

A friend recently called because he was asked to retrieve a gun confiscated from a public enemy in our town - a genuine misdemeanon suspect. I advised him to be at the PD first thing the next morning with a letter from the owner to get the gun. The PD cooperated fully and told him they were glad to get the gun out of their storage.

 

[drgrant]

One of the benefits of doing all your business with one FFL is you can sometimes get a good relationship, and have an understanding that the FFL will make a high priority run to fetch your guns.

Well, or conversely, I would add "a select few FFLs" . Someone can be busy, sick, overloaded, etc, especially right now. It's the old thing, dont put all eggs in one basket, etc.

Also things get useful having more than one dealer if you have "interesting" things that need to be dealt with in "interesting" ways in terms of legal BS, etc.

Agility/Flexibility helps.

 

[Tallahassee]

Well, or conversely, I would add "a select few FFLs" . Someone can be busy, sick, overloaded, etc, especially right now. It's the old thing, dont put all eggs in one basket, etc.

Also things get useful having more than one dealer if you have "interesting" things that need to be dealt with in "interesting" ways in terms of legal BS, etc.

Agility/Flexibility helps.

Going to use your favorite word. Skinflint.

Skinflints are so retardedly stupid, always tripping over a dollar to pick up a nickel, they never develop a relationship with a shop. Not only could a shop save your ass, but they could use a little more discretion when it comes to your shopping experience.

But, go ahead, save $24.78, buy that shield from buds. Save $1.34 a box on 9mm, buy from target sports. Whatever. Cheap bastards.

 

[Mark from MA]

Well, or conversely, I would add "a select few FFLs" . Someone can be busy, sick, overloaded, etc, especially right now. It's the old thing, dont put all eggs in one basket, etc.

Also things get useful having more than one dealer if you have "interesting" things that need to be dealt with in "interesting" ways in terms of legal BS, etc.

Agility/Flexibility helps.

Anyone that has a decent amount of firearms, that doesnt have one or two FFLs they can call in a moment’s notice to do transfers

Or get and store their guns temporarily is not very forward thinking.

Most people also have a person they will transfer firearms to and store them for free until LTC issue is cleared up.

There really is no reason any of us couldnt help someone in a bind if someone is looking for a transferee/storage.

And maybe instead of a business its a just a thread of people who could help someone out.

Like people say though, details and getting in between family and marraige issues are not anything anyone wants to deal with.

 

[snax]

What if you have an address in another state, see something like this coming, and run up there, change your residence, license, and drop a registered letter to the licensing dept/MA all on the same day?
Obviously that change would have to be permanent.
And you can't bee seen at your house for awhile.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There really is no reason any of us couldnt help someone in a bind if someone is looking for a transferee/storage.

There is a reason.
Only a MA licensed dealer can accept transfer to 209A confiscated guns.

 

[drgrant]

There is a reason.
Only a MA licensed dealer can accept transfer to 209A confiscated guns.

That, and there's a big difference in "Dealer XYZ has the guns" vs "rando person XYZ who happens to be the friend of the accused" having the guns. It may not be a "legal" thing
but it makes it difficult for a PD to play games or brace the 3rd party friend with bullshit (eg, suitability, etc) when the guns are already at an MA licensed dealer.

 

[Whiskeywon]

That, and there's a big difference in "Dealer XYZ has the guns" vs "rando person XYZ who happens to be the friend of the accused" having the guns. It may not be a "legal" thing
but it makes it difficult for a PD to play games or brace the 3rd party friend with bullshit (eg, suitability, etc) when the guns are already at an MA licensed dealer.

Not to mention the added layer that you could theoretically have the dealer transfer the guns to said friend at which point the firearms are fully in the legal ownership of the new "owner" and have zero real affiliation with the original owner. Which I have done now multiple times.
Eight PD pickups so far and over 90 guns saved from bonded warehouses.

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

Not to mention the added layer that you could theoretically have the dealer transfer the guns to said friend at which point the firearms are fully in the legal ownership of the new "owner" and have zero real affiliation with the original owner. Which I have done now multiple times.
Eight PD pickups so far and over 90 guns saved from bonded warehouses.

Let's not over-think this. The guns that you simply can't afford to lose, like family heirlooms, exotics, etc get stored out of state. What is not in MA has zero chance of ending up in these dreaded "thefthouses". Basics only at home. If you sense trouble on the horizon, those go out of state as well. Cops can't seize what isn't there. Clam up and lawyer up. Dont make any statements to cops.

 

[drgrant]

Let's not over-think this. The guns that you simply can't afford to lose, like family heirlooms, exotics, etc get stored out of state. What is not in MA has zero chance of ending up in these dreaded "thefthouses". Basics only at home. If you sense trouble on the horizon, those go out of state as well. Cops can't seize what isn't there. Clam up and lawyer up. Dont make any statements to cops.

Lol 209As are orbital and they WILL go to.other states (and get warrants) to seize your shit, so good luck with that. Absolutely nobody can know, for this to having a chance of working. So if some guy's shitty wife knows that he has a storage locker in NH you're basically already f*****... it's not going to help you because that's the first thing that she's going to tell the cops...

Also in a lot of these cases people don't get a lot of notice it just sort of happens.

I agree that putting some s*** out in the middle of nowhere isn't a bad idea but it's not some kind of a Panacea.

There's also some b******* laws in mass that they can use to brace people with to try to get them to divulge the location to their guns... but this is largely a "playing chicken" based exercise that you have to talk to an attorney about...

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

Lol 209As are orbital and they WILL go to.other states (and get warrants) to seize your shit, so good luck with that. Absolutely nobody can know, for this to having a chance of working. So if some guy's shitty wife knows that he has a storage locker in NH you're basically already f*****... it's not going to help you because that's the first thing that she's going to tell the cops...

Also in a lot of these cases people don't get a lot of notice it just sort of happens.

I agree that putting some s*** out in the middle of nowhere isn't a bad idea but it's not some kind of a Panacea.

There's also some b******* laws in mass that they can use to brace people with to try to get them to divulge the location to their guns... but this is largely a "playing chicken" based exercise that you have to talk to an attorney about...

Aussie gun owners did a huge run on PVC pipe at home improvement warehouses and plumbing supply companies. This was during the one year "amnesty" that began in 1996 or so after the great gun grab was enacted into law. I wonder how much banned ordnance is lying under terra firma in the land down under? Estimates are that Aussie cops only got about 25% or so of the banned guns. We can all learn lessons from their example.

 

[Yazz]

You also have the FFL at the ready to collect from the Police right after confiscation.

They usually don't hand it to the bonded warehouse until after a few hours in custody.

Oh no, not me.

But, I'm ready for a counter attack at any moment.

Everybody should be ready.

I'm looking pretty sharp right now.

I just trimmed back a 2 month Covid beard.

If I'd lose 10 lbs I'd be at my fighting weight.

Chicks don't always dig my Kitanica pants though.
I wear them every day.
Although I have Kitanica jeans now, so I'm all ready for a night out.

I'll hold yours if you'll hold mine.

 

[Reptile]

I'll hold yours if you'll hold mine.

Careful - the water is deep, too.