Gun nut in fatigues films himself walking into Walmart carrying an assault rifle

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Well, breaching the peace (as a distinct offense) has been against English common law since the late middle ages. Since before that, it's not been necessary to cause physical harm in order to be arrested and brought to trial.

You're railing against something that's never been okay. You're not responsible for causing fear in others if you're engaging in normal, everyday, reasonable conduct. But this kid went out IN ORDER TO PROVOKE A REACTION. He wasn't doing anything normal. This kid didn't ordinarily get jocked up and go out to Walmart. He did this to see if he could cause a stir, and his wife told him it was a dumb idea.

The issue here isn't so much 2A. If this was just about him carrying, it wouldn't be news, and I doubt the firefighter would have drawn down on a hunter coming into Walmart for a case of Gatorade with his rifle. But this doofus carried in a specific way calculated to cause a reaction, and that's never been okay.
Indeed.

Open carry may be a time honored, legally protected practice (in some states), but let's not fool ourselves here. The law was written when open carrying meant a pistol in a holster or a rifle slung over the shoulder. The trend of tacticool ninjas rollin out into public with their rifle at the low ready is relatively recent. I'm not sure what planet people think we are on where "open carry however the hell you want" is going to be a legally protected right. If lawmakers decide this kind of behavior is a public nuisance, they will end it and it will survive court review. If people keep open carrying rifles into WalMart like it's an active combat zone lawmakers will start making the law much more specific.

Even a SCOTUS from the 2A wet dream is not going to step in and say otherwise.

Photos like the one Queen Bee posted are going to have the caption "how edgelords open carried for that brief period of time before this kind of BS was outlawed" in the future if this trend keeps up.
 
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I do however admire your dedication to individual rights versus the collective.
Dear lord. This is what we are up against folks. It really does say it all.

I thought her pointing out the hypocrisy was very productive.
There is nothing hypocritical about it. But when you have such a fundamental misunderstanding I'm not surprised. I'm sure you've heard the expression "I may not agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it", correct? Do you also think if I defend someone's free speech that I'm a hypocrite if I don't also say the same thing?

No, supporting someones right to bear arms, in the manner of their choosing, does not require one to also do the same thing.

It's not hard to grasp for those who actually respect individual rights.
 

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We are talking about open carry are we not.. but that is already a dead thing here in MA unless your west of Worcester in the boonies. And even there open carry rifle is a dead thing as well.

You will find yourself drawn down on by The police, and if you think you won't be try it sometime..

About open carry pistol.
appearance is everything.. your living a lie if you think not its not a code at all. But if you think strapping body armor on, your 5.11 fatigues, and your tac vest loaded with handgun mags or looking like a goth with a gun and walking around in ths northeast will work out for you, try it and let me watch you on the news.

Versus..

Nice office worker with an open carried holster.. most people will either mistake you for a thin blue line crowd, and assume, or not even notice. The very small portion of folks that do care, well your prob still f***ed in MA, less so in NH, or ME or VT.
I carry each and every day, without fail. It doesn't matter if I'm dressed in my Sunday best or dressed like a homeless person from under a bridge, it is the same. No shits given by anyone, at any time. People just get too wrapped up in all of this bullshit.
 
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Interesting point and well written. I concur with your assessment and I have no issue defending our rights. I have a huge problem as documented above with fools, criminals and others suffering mental conditions, painting us collectively by their actions, as a cretinous horde of fools and murders because we keep firearms. The left is using every tool both legitimate and illegitimate to further their agenda. All the shooters and "social experiment" scientists have the left coming for the contents of your safe.

I don't suffer idiots well. I will as many others here, be happy to attend a support event, meeting, or informal carry open event in support. I don't believe that terrorizing a whole store full of people is the answer to further our agenda. I have carried for my entire adult life and do not take lightly the current battle being waged against us. This is all about personal beliefs yours, mine, ours, theirs and interpretation by all the different players of the law as written. It is virtually impossible to eliminate personal agenda from these sorts of debates. My mother was killed 34 years ago by a drunk driver. I have an opinion about people that drive drunk.

I will think about what you have said, however it is not in my nature to defend people that are doing things that threaten my way of life.
I don't like people who make dumb decisions either. I just do not trust that government is true or noble enough to exercise/weild the power of what is essentially kidnapping to prevent dumb people from doing dumb things.

Almost every single time government attempts to control behavior using force, it makes the problem worse by stealing money only to not solve the problem.
 

drgrant

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I carry each and every day, without fail. It doesn't matter if I'm dressed in my Sunday best or dressed like a homeless person from under a bridge, it is the same. No shits given by anyone, at any time. People just get too wrapped up in all of this bullshit.
I agree, but you're probably not waving your gun around in public, though. It probably lives in a holster, too.

-Mike
 

Racenet

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I agree, but you're probably not waving your gun around in public, though. It probably lives in a holster, too.

-Mike
Well, the line of thinking by many around here is that if it is even seen, it amounts to about the same as waving it around in public, holster or not.
 

allen-1

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Well, the line of thinking by many around here is that if it is even seen, it amounts to about the same as waving it around in public, holster or not.
I shot pins Sunday at Ledyard. Stopped to get gas. I was carrying a Glock 43 in an IWB under my t-shirt. I doubted anyone noticed. Guy next to me at the gas pump was carrying OWB with no cover.

My truck has one sticker on it, "Nintendo Entertainment Systems". His had a CCDL, Molon Labe, etc. Seriously, I'm not trying to make a point here. I believe in discretion, he obviously believes in open carry.

Nobody said boo to either one of us.
 

Racenet

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I shot pins Sunday at Ledyard. Stopped to get gas. I was carrying a Glock 43 in an IWB under my t-shirt. I doubted anyone noticed. Guy next to me at the gas pump was carrying OWB with no cover.

My truck has one sticker on it, "Nintendo Entertainment Systems". His had a CCDL, Molon Labe, etc. Seriously, I'm not trying to make a point here. I believe in discretion, he obviously believes in open carry.

Nobody said boo to either one of us.
How about this. He simply believes in carry.
 

42!

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I shot pins Sunday at Ledyard. Stopped to get gas. I was carrying a Glock 43 in an IWB under my t-shirt. I doubted anyone noticed. Guy next to me at the gas pump was carrying OWB with no cover.

My truck has one sticker on it, "Nintendo Entertainment Systems". His had a CCDL, Molon Labe, etc. Seriously, I'm not trying to make a point here. I believe in discretion, he obviously believes in open carry.

Nobody said boo to either one of us.
I think this highlights the point that manny are either missing or dismissing. It's not that he was carrying. If he was in his normal day to day attire, and had the rifle slung on his back, and just going in to buy some ammo, it would not be a problem.
But he's carrying at the low ready, which some would call brandishing because he was holding the rifle in a ready position. I would expect different reaction if someone was holding a handgun walking around compared to walking around with a holstered handgun. He's also dressed tactical and has extra mags. He was intentionally doing this at a place intended to remind people of the shooting. And to top it off he was trying to incite a reaction so he could record it.
To be honest, he could have been carrying a sword in front of him and gotten similar results.

As another has said, this kind of foolishness will result in laws defining and limiting "open" carry. You're going see a requirement for handguns to be holstered and rifles to be unloaded and slung on your back (with a hunting exception, maybe). And SCOTUS isn't going to shut this down.
 

193rdsoldier

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For the few of you saying it’s only black and white, that there is no grey area, you are full of it. Like it or not the time for black and white is long past.
There is a very real grey area that has been pointed out multiple times in this thread. The guy who did this did nothing to help promote or protect our rights. If I’m in that store with my family when he walks in, I’m walking out.
 

TurboJeff

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Then why do police open carry? For easy access?

Some people who have limited shoulder mobility open carry because they can't move their arm across to pull up a coat or shirt to draw a gun. They really don't have a choice.

Others with normal mobility open carry for the same reason as the police do.....easy access.

I don't care how or what people carry, it's their business.

"Hey, I sure do like how that shiny 1911 looks, I think I'll smack that guy over the back of the head and take it"

Just like every other right we have, there are consequences to how you decide to go about exercising it.
 

Uzi2

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"Hey, I sure do like how that shiny 1911 looks, I think I'll smack that guy over the back of the head and take it"

Just like every other right we have, there are consequences to how you decide to go about exercising it.
So, someone exercising their right to open carry invokes criminal ideation in your head? Perhaps you need a psych exam to fugre out what your issues are.

I think you are the defect in this equation, not the guy with the 1911.
 

TurboJeff

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So, someone exercising their right to open carry invokes criminal ideation in your head? Perhaps you need a psych exam to fugre out what your issues are.

I think you are the defect in this equation, not the guy with the 1911.
I think you took that waaaaay out of context, but OK. I never said the person with the 1911 was a defect of any equation. I simply pointed out a very plausible "what if" scenario. If we're carrying because bad people do bad things, you might want to consider what can happen and has happened before - Many times.

Overall - Cool tantrum, bro. I think you might need a hug.
 

Uzi2

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I think you took that waaaaay out of context, but OK. I never said the person with the 1911 was a defect of any equation. I simply pointed out a very plausible "what if" scenario. If we're carrying because bad people do bad things, you might want to consider what can happen and has happened before - Many times.

Overall - Cool tantrum, bro. I think you might need a hug.
No hugs needed here,
I never stated or even insinuated that the hypothetical guy carrying the 1911 was a , or the, defect in this equation, I specifically stated that I thought that you were the defect because you brought up the point of hitting someone over the head and taking their gun.

The situation that you think is so "plausible" is not, and its so far down the list of probability it hardly bears addressing. It is just another opinion amd irrational fear that is pounded into the brain of the gullible public to coerse people into not exercising their right to open carry. Look at an up to date map of states that have no prohibition on open carry. Its not an issue. People are not having their pistols stolen from their holsters. Guns are usually stolen out of unattended, unlocked cars and homes that are broken into.
 

TurboJeff

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No hugs needed here,
I never stated or even insinuated that the hypothetical guy carrying the 1911 was a , or the, defect in this equation, I specifically stated that I thought that you were the defect because you brought up the point of hitting someone over the head and taking their gun.

The situation that you think is so "plausible" is not, and its so far down the list of probability it hardly bears addressing. It is just another opinion amd irrational fear that is pounded into the brain of the gullible public to coerse people into not exercising their right to open carry. Look at an up to date map of states that have no prohibition on open carry. Its not an issue. People are not having their pistols stolen from their holsters. Guns are usually stolen out of unattended, unlocked cars and homes that are broken into.

Well, you did insinuate that I was suggesting he was. Hence my response. Not to mention you questioning my mental health situation because of what I suggested. I mean, really? The hugs are needed.

It's very plausible. No fear mongering required. My simple point was not to deter anyone from carrying, but if given the option to do so, conceal your weapon. It's safer and there's no need to let the bad guys see what you've got. They can and will take it given the opportunity. You suggesting otherwise is just ignoring every news story out there about it happening.

Man wearing handgun open carry robbed in Newport News, police say

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article227182399.html


There's the first shovel down the rabbit hole. You can go further or live in denial.
 
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Anecdotal stories do not quantify the benefits or negatives. How many would be robbers are deterred by seeing a gun versus bold enough to attack an OCer?

What you are doing is denigrating the expression of a natural right based in your personal and clearly unsubstantiated position that OCing is somehow more dangerous or encites criminals to attack you first.

How many people who carry concealed get attacked because a criminal viewd them as vulnerable? Does it make sense to hide your gun and put yourself at the tactical disadvantage of having someone draw down on you first?
 

TurboJeff

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Anecdotal stories do not quantify the benefits or negatives. How many would be robbers are deterred by seeing a gun versus bold enough to attack an OCer?

What you are doing is denigrating the expression of a natural right based in your personal and clearly unsubstantiated position that OCing is somehow more dangerous or encites criminals to attack you first.

How many people who carry concealed get attacked because a criminal viewd them as vulnerable? Does it make sense to hide your gun and put yourself at the tactical disadvantage of having someone draw down on you first?
Do you really believe carrying in the open puts you at a "tactical advantage" vs. a bad guy having no idea you're carrying concealed?
 

Racenet

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Well, you did insinuate that I was suggesting he was. Hence my response. Not to mention you questioning my mental health situation because of what I suggested. I mean, really? The hugs are needed.

It's very plausible. No fear mongering required. My simple point was not to deter anyone from carrying, but if given the option to do so, conceal your weapon. It's safer and there's no need to let the bad guys see what you've got. They can and will take it given the opportunity. You suggesting otherwise is just ignoring every news story out there about it happening.

Man wearing handgun open carry robbed in Newport News, police say

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article227182399.html


There's the first shovel down the rabbit hole. You can go further or live in denial.
[laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][laugh2][puke]
 

Uzi2

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Well, you did insinuate that I was suggesting he was. Hence my response. Not to mention you questioning my mental health situation because of what I suggested. I mean, really? The hugs are needed.

It's very plausible. No fear mongering required. My simple point was not to deter anyone from carrying, but if given the option to do so, conceal your weapon. It's safer and there's no need to let the bad guys see what you've got. They can and will take it given the opportunity. You suggesting otherwise is just ignoring every news story out there about it happening.

Man wearing handgun open carry robbed in Newport News, police say

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article227182399.html


There's the first shovel down the rabbit hole. You can go further or live in denial.
Well I asked this question of another on the board concerning open carry, Why do police open carry?

Is it the intimidation factor?

Is it the "uniform" factor?

Is it the EASE OF ACCESS factor?

Or is it a combination of all three, with the first two being of little to no value.

So if its a combination of all three, with only ONE of them being of any real useable utility, ( ease of access) then why would it be any different for an average citizen not wearing the invincible blue uniform with the oooh shiney badge open carrying to gain that same advantage of utility?

Living in a police state(which I don't ) I'd have much greater concern about being offed by some trigger happy cop for open carrying than being disarmed by some street thug. Oh but I repeat myself.
 
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Do you really believe carrying in the open puts you at a "tactical advantage" vs. a bad guy having no idea you're carrying concealed?
I'm saying you have no data to prove I'm wrong, but you keep trying to say otherwise without providing any data to back your claim.

My stance is both are equal in tactical advantage. CC only gives you an advantage in the situation where the aggressor hasn't already singled you out. So you are basing your argument on the false notion that by CCing you are never the primary target and by OCing you always will be the primary target (which is again based on an assumption you are the only one OCing).

So provide some facts to backup your position, or admit you're making an argument based solely on your feelings like a liberal.
 
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I think this highlights the point that manny are either missing or dismissing.
Neither missing nor dismissing. It’s obvious carrying like that will receive a different reaction. We all understand that. There’s plenty of reasons why I wouldn’t carry in the same manner. The problem is he was arrested and is being charged with a felony. Had instead, the police showed up, found out he was just being a chucklehead but wasn’t out to hurt anyone, told him what many of you are saying, and not arrest him, this is a far different situation. That would be reasonable. Heck, it’s not even like he was arrested, and then released later. He’s being charged with a felony, in a total violation of his rights.

The guy who did this did nothing to help promote or protect our rights.
Good news. One need not have to promote and certainly not protect anyone else’s rights in order to exercise their own.

Just like every other right we have, there are consequences to how you decide to go about exercising it.
If the consequence for exercising a right is being charged with a felony, what do you think having the right to do something means?

There's the first shovel down the rabbit hole. You can go further or live in denial.
Oh, a single anecdote! That settles it.

Wait a second, if anecdotes are valid arguments...

I’ve open carried at least twice without being robbed. Probably three or four times. More likely even five plus times. Man, that’s a bunch more anecdotes than you have, that must mean open carrying is the safest thing ever!

Or maybe that’s not how things work.
 

TurboJeff

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Neither missing nor dismissing. It’s obvious carrying like that will receive a different reaction. We all understand that. There’s plenty of reasons why I wouldn’t carry in the same manner. The problem is he was arrested and is being charged with a felony. Had instead, the police showed up, found out he was just being a chucklehead but wasn’t out to hurt anyone, told him what many of you are saying, and not arrest him, this is a far different situation. That would be reasonable. Heck, it’s not even like he was arrested, and then released later. He’s being charged with a felony, in a total violation of his rights.



Good news. One need not have to promote and certainly not protect anyone else’s rights in order to exercise their own.



If the consequence for exercising a right is being charged with a felony, what do you think having the right to do something means?



Oh, a single anecdote! That settles it.

Wait a second, if anecdotes are valid arguments...

I’ve open carried at least twice without being robbed. Probably three or four times. More likely even five plus times. Man, that’s a bunch more anecdotes than you have, that must mean open carrying is the safest thing ever!

Or maybe that’s not how things work.
Who said who was getting charged with a felony? Man, you guys blow stuff way out of proportion.

Wait..so if I find more news stories of guys getting beat for their guns while open carrying than times you have open carried and not, I'm right? It doesn't work that way, either. I wasn't suggesting that. You all missed the point.
 
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Who said who was getting charged with a felony? Man, you guys blow stuff way out of proportion.
The guy we’ve been discussing in this thread has been charged with a felony. What do you think this thread is about? I’m blowing nothing out of proportion by stating a fact.

Wait..so if I find more news stories of guys getting beat for their guns while open carrying than times you have open carried and not, I'm right? It doesn't work that way, either.
No shit it doesn’t. That was my sole point. Anecdotes aren’t arguments. There anecdotes.
 

TurboJeff

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Well I asked this question of another on the board concerning open carry, Why do police open carry?

Is it the intimidation factor?

Is it the "uniform" factor?

Is it the EASE OF ACCESS factor?

Or is it a combination of all three, with the first two being of little to no value.

So if its a combination of all three, with only ONE of them being of any real useable utility, ( ease of access) then why would it be any different for an average citizen not wearing the invincible blue uniform with the oooh shiney badge open carrying to gain that same advantage of utility?

Living in a police state(which I don't ) I'd have much greater concern about being offed by some trigger happy cop for open carrying than being disarmed by some street thug. Oh but I repeat myself.
I'm not sure where you pulled up that strawman from. I'm not even arguing the utility of it. I'm talking about controlling what you can. Open carrying will open you up to someone knowing you have a gun.

The consequences of that could be positive, negative or something in between. I wasn't arguing any of that. I was simply putting out a very plausible scenario. You said it wasn't.

And yes - I'd guess it's much more likely here (in MA) that you'd be shot by the cops for open carrying than getting beat for your pistol.
 

Uzi2

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Who said who was getting charged with a felony? Man, you guys blow stuff way out of proportion.

Wait..so if I find more news stories of guys getting beat for their guns while open carrying than times you have open carried and not, I'm right? It doesn't work that way, either. I wasn't suggesting that. You all missed the point.

Ok bad timing on the posts here.
 
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Get this. I just read the charging statement from the prosecutor, who’s charging him with making a terroristic threat in the 2nd degree on the basis that he endangered lives because a cop crashed into someone’s car while responding.
 

Uzi2

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Get this. I just read the charging statement from the prosecutor, who’s charging him with making a terroristic threat in the 2nd degree on the basis that he endangered lives because a cop crashed into someone’s car while responding.
OMFG, they are reaching so badly to justify their bogus charges its beyond the pale.
 
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TurboJeff

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The guy we’ve been discussing in this thread has been charged with a felony. What do you think this thread is about? I’m blowing nothing out of proportion by stating a fact.



No shit it doesn’t. That was my sole point. Anecdotes aren’t arguments. There anecdotes.
The guy we’ve been discussing in this thread has been charged with a felony. What do you think this thread is about? I’m blowing nothing out of proportion by stating a fact.



No shit it doesn’t. That was my sole point. Anecdotes aren’t arguments. There anecdotes.

Correct. And I agree. You quoted what I said, and I took that as you suggesting that my mentioned consequences equated to him being charged with a Felony.
 
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