Gun Ignorance from John Farnam

JimConway

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3 Dec 09

Gun Ignorance, even among "Professionals." This from a student and Chiropractor in the Midwest:

"A local, uniformed, patrol officer came in to my office last week, complaining of headaches and lower-back pain. She stated that pain was occurring while she was on duty, and mentioned that her duty-belt was uncomfortable.

I began by asking about her duty-pistol. She stated that it was a SIG.
When I asked what model, she paused and answered, 'Why, it's a Sig/Sauer.
Is there another kind?'

I let out a breath and then asked if the weapon's magazines were single or double-stack, what caliber, how many spare magazines she carried, and where she carried them. I got back a confused look, and then she asked me what 'double-stack' meant. In addition, she had no idea what caliber her pistol was, but we determined that both spare magazines were routinely carried on the same side as her pistol.

I asked if she practiced reloading her pistol with magazines carried thus.
She indicated that she '... couldn't remember,' adding 'I don't know; I just carry them there.'"

Comment: In light of the recent WA ambush of uniformed officers, the foregoing is of great concern.

"Police" is not 'what we do.' It's 'what we ARE!' A blase, clueless officer, like this one, is in extreme danger every minute she is working, as is everyone she works with, and everyone she ostensibly "protects."

Her training officer and her chief, for everyone's sake, need to get her on-board, get her into some other kind of work, or plan on attending funeral(s)!
 
similar story. met a NJ state trooper while wearing a Sig Academy hat. He mentioned, " i carry a Sig as my duty weapon". I asked what model and caliber. his response, " i don't know...i put it on each morning, take it off each night and have only unholstered and shot it twice a year for 20 years to qualify"........scary stuff IMO.
 
Kinda sad to see that carelessness and lack of knowledge about the gun that may be needed to save themselves or a another.

I saw just the opposite today while at the range. I noticed a young guy shooting off 15 round mags. Out of curiosity I asked if he was LE. He was. He then went through a bunch of different practice moves including shooting single handed, both righty and lefty. He practiced simulating ducking behind and shooting. I noticed he shot equally well with both hands too.

He's the guy I'd want watching my back.
 
Kinda sad to see that carelessness and lack of knowledge about the gun that may be needed to save themselves or a another.

I saw just the opposite today while at the range. I noticed a young guy shooting off 15 round mags. Out of curiosity I asked if he was LE. He was. He then went through a bunch of different practice moves including shooting single handed, both righty and lefty. He practiced simulating ducking behind and shooting. I noticed he shot equally well with both hands too.

He's the guy I'd want watching my back.

+ 1 on that.
 
3 Dec 09

Gun Ignorance, even among "Professionals." This from a student and Chiropractor in the Midwest:

"A local, uniformed, patrol officer came in to my office last week, complaining of headaches and lower-back pain. She stated that pain was occurring while she was on duty, and mentioned that her duty-belt was uncomfortable.

I began by asking about her duty-pistol. She stated that it was a SIG.
When I asked what model, she paused and answered, 'Why, it's a Sig/Sauer.
Is there another kind?'

I let out a breath and then asked if the weapon's magazines were single or double-stack, what caliber, how many spare magazines she carried, and where she carried them. I got back a confused look, and then she asked me what 'double-stack' meant. In addition, she had no idea what caliber her pistol was, but we determined that both spare magazines were routinely carried on the same side as her pistol.

I asked if she practiced reloading her pistol with magazines carried thus.
She indicated that she '... couldn't remember,' adding 'I don't know; I just carry them there.'"

Comment: In light of the recent WA ambush of uniformed officers, the foregoing is of great concern.

"Police" is not 'what we do.' It's 'what we ARE!' A blase, clueless officer, like this one, is in extreme danger every minute she is working, as is everyone she works with, and everyone she ostensibly "protects."

Her training officer and her chief, for everyone's sake, need to get her on-board, get her into some other kind of work, or plan on attending funeral(s)!

Let's all celebrate diversity and EEO. This is the kind of person that you end up hiring when you subscribe to this nonsense![frown] She is providing an illusion of protection, not the real thing.
 
People find it hard to believe but good driving skills will keep a cop alive more than good shooting skills.Police work is much different than what you see on TV.Also fitness and good fighting skills.
 
People find it hard to believe but good driving skills will keep a cop alive more than good shooting skills.Police work is much different than what you see on TV.Also fitness and good fighting skills.

[rofl][laugh2][laugh]

I should have figured you would be in here to defend the ignorance. You're too damn predictable.
 
I willl be the bad guy here ,there are just as many clueless civilan gun owners out there. Look how may come into gun shops in Ma then cant understand why they cant get a Glock or sig etc and then ask is this a new law? Work the door at a gun show and watch how many people have no idea how to safely clear thier weapon when asked. Within each group Cops and civilain gun owners there is a minority that actually know what they are doing, the rest probably should pick other jobs or hobbies. YMMV.
 
I willl be the bad guy here ,there are just as many clueless civilan gun owners out there. Look how may come into gun shops in Ma then cant understand why they cant get a Glock or sig etc and then ask is this a new law? Work the door at a gun show and watch how many people have no idea how to safely clear thier weapon when asked. Within each group Cops and civilain gun owners there is a minority that actually know what they are doing, the rest probably should pick other jobs or hobbies. YMMV.

They aren't getting paid tax dollars to use a weapon to stop criminals.
 
Until the hiring practices change these clueless officers will allowed to be hired and stay employed. In most staes the entrance and academy standards have really gone down the toilet. In Ma it started when they stopped using the Cooper standards for entrance into the acdemy. I have actuall witnessed an recruit who gained weight while in an academy, and Im not talking muscle
 
[rofl][laugh2][laugh]

I should have figured you would be in here to defend the ignorance. You're too damn predictable.
Most police officers retire without ever having gotten into a gunfight. But most all of them have driven a police cruiser.

I'm not defending the lack of firearms skills, but pbearperry has a point.
 
Most police officers retire without ever having gotten into a gunfight. But most all of them have driven a police cruiser.

I'm not defending the lack of firearms skills, but pbearperry has a point.
Why is she carrying a firearm that she knows nothing about?

Seriously you can defend and deflect the ignorance all you want, if you're going to be an LEO you better be able to drive and you better know about the firearm you are carrying.

If that was a solider that made that comment you guys would be all over it. But it's an LEO and "oh my god they have so many other things to worry about".

It's pathetic.
 
I'm not defending the lack of firearms skills, but pbearperry has a point.

Seems like a bit more than a "lack of firearms skills", here. It's really a frightening lack of fundamental knowledge from someone who carries a gun for a living. I'd hate to be in a situation where that individual was all that was standing between me and a bad outcome.
 
Why is she carrying a firearm that she knows nothing about?

Seriously you can defend and deflect the ignorance all you want, if you're going to be an LEO you better be able to drive and you better know about the firearm you are carrying.
I think you are misinterpreting both my comment and pbearperry's. Is it a good thing that so many police officers are ignorant about firearms in general, their service pistol in particular, and are woefully undertrained in markshanship? No, not at all. It is terrible.

But since most of them won't ever get in a gunfight during their career, I have to agree with pbearperry -- good driving skills and hand-to-hand are more likely to keep them alive than good shooting skills. 35% of officer fatalities are due to traffic accidents.

No, I'm not saying police shouldn't have better firearms training. They should. But for most, the probability that they will ever have to use their firearms skills is very low.
 
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I think you are misinterpreting both my comment and pbearperry's. Is it a good think that so many police officers are ignorant about firearms in general, their service pistol in particular, and are woefully undertrained in markshanship? No, not at all. It is terrible.

But since most of them won't ever get in a gunfight during their career, I have to agree with pbearperry -- good driving skills and hand-to-hand are more likely to keep them alive than good shooting skills. 35% of officer fatalities are due to traffic accidents.

No, I'm not saying police shouldn't have better firearms training. They should. But for most, the probability that they will ever have to use their firearms skills is very low.
Funny the how the lack of the LEO being a complete officer never makes it to the bargaining table come contract time.

When a CLEO is denying people because he "feels" they are under qualified yet his officers don't know what model Sig they are carrying there is a MAJOR f-ing issue there.
 
3 Dec 09

Gun Ignorance, even among "Professionals." This from a student and Chiropractor in the Midwest:

"A local, uniformed, patrol officer came in to my office last week, complaining of headaches and lower-back pain. She stated that pain was occurring while she was on duty, and mentioned that her duty-belt was uncomfortable.

I began by asking about her duty-pistol. She stated that it was a SIG.
When I asked what model, she paused and answered, 'Why, it's a Sig/Sauer.
Is there another kind?'

I let out a breath and then asked if the weapon's magazines were single or double-stack, what caliber, how many spare magazines she carried, and where she carried them. I got back a confused look, and then she asked me what 'double-stack' meant. In addition, she had no idea what caliber her pistol was, but we determined that both spare magazines were routinely carried on the same side as her pistol.

I asked if she practiced reloading her pistol with magazines carried thus.
She indicated that she '... couldn't remember,' adding 'I don't know; I just carry them there.'"

Comment: In light of the recent WA ambush of uniformed officers, the foregoing is of great concern.

"Police" is not 'what we do.' It's 'what we ARE!' A blase, clueless officer, like this one, is in extreme danger every minute she is working, as is everyone she works with, and everyone she ostensibly "protects."

Her training officer and her chief, for everyone's sake, need to get her on-board, get her into some other kind of work, or plan on attending funeral(s)!
Her worthlessness, or that of similar police officers, does not affect me in the least.
 
People find it hard to believe but good driving skills will keep a cop alive more than good shooting skills.Police work is much different than what you see on TV.Also fitness and good fighting skills.

The driver in that recent incident where the accelerator was jammed on by a floor mat was a CHP officer. It seems they're not doing well at driving skills either.
 
People find it hard to believe but good driving skills will keep a cop alive more than good shooting skills.Police work is much different than what you see on TV.Also fitness and good fighting skills.

It's true.

They aren't getting paid tax dollars to use a weapon to stop criminals.

I think that cop's a moron, without a doubt.

However, if someone started a thread on here about this female cop who didn't know diddly squat about the engine size of her Crown Vic, or it's top speed, and that she never took it out and practiced with it on a driving course from time to time, no one would be getting their panties in a bunch about this cop who knew so little about her cruiser, even though she uses the cruiser every day, and statistically she's more likely to be killed behind the wheel of her Crown Vic than she is to be killed with her gun in her hand.

I'm not defending her in the least, if I bumped into her in Dunkin Donuts tomorrow I'd tell her in plain terms that she's a dead cop/dead innocent bystander waiting to happen.

But the fact is that to non-gun guys, an issued gun is the same as an issued patrol car, or an issued radio, or an issued flashlight. They don't know the specs, they don't care about anything other than if it works, and they falsely assume that their department training is enough to keep them alive.
 
But the fact is that to non-gun guys, an issued gun is the same as an issued patrol car, or an issued radio, or an issued flashlight. They don't know the specs, they don't care about anything other than if it works, and they falsely assume that their department training is enough to keep them alive.

A valid point, to a point.

One does not need to know the size of the engine; even the gas is usually obtained at the department pump. A competent cop still must know how to DRIVE the car, including pursuit and evasive driving.

A competent cop should also know the model and caliber of her/his gun in case additional ammo is needed on-scene. And a cop who carries the gun and mags on the same side is almost certainly not properly trained.
 
A valid point, to a point.

One does not need to know the size of the engine; even the gas is usually obtained at the department pump. A competent cop still must know how to DRIVE the car, including pursuit and evasive driving.

A competent cop should also know the model and caliber of her/his gun in case additional ammo is needed on-scene. And a cop who carries the gun and mags on the same side is almost certainly not properly trained.

Yep. GSG you make a good point but like Keith said, you have to know what you're doing with the tool. Something as simple as caliber is the same as diesel or unleaded. She didn't know. She shouldn't be an LEO. Pretty simple.
 
Let me know how you're getting out of paying taxes.

I am not. Her failure does not affect me personally.

First off, I am the first line of defense for myself and my family. Second, I am not her partner. Third, I do not work with her. Fourth, if she gets wacked in a gunfight, life goes on for me.

As I get older and continue to observe the wholesale pussification of America, I grow less and less inclined to give a shit about those who fail to take care of themselves.
 
I willl be the bad guy here ,there are just as many clueless civilan gun owners out there. Look how may come into gun shops in Ma then cant understand why they cant get a Glock or sig etc and then ask is this a new law? Work the door at a gun show and watch how many people have no idea how to safely clear thier weapon when asked.
And yet... the guy who doesn't know why he can't get a new Glock might not have BOUGHT a new gun in 15 years... and not being a cop, it isn't a required part of his knowledge. The guy who can't clear their weapon? Again... might not be a cop - or the might BE the cop in the OP.

So what?

The driver in that recent incident where the accelerator was jammed on by a floor mat was a CHP officer. It seems they're not doing well at driving skills either.
I still don't understand why he didn't just reach down and throw the car out of gear... or turn off the ignition. [rolleyes]

However, if someone started a thread on here about this female cop who didn't know diddly squat about the engine size of her Crown Vic, or it's top speed, and that she never took it out and practiced with it on a driving course from time to time, no one would be getting their panties in a bunch about this cop who knew so little about her cruiser, even though she uses the cruiser every day, and statistically she's more likely to be killed behind the wheel of her Crown Vic than she is to be killed with her gun in her hand.
Some nice straw man arguments there. She doesn't need to know the engine size unless she's going to be ordering repair parts - totally different than not knowing what ammo your gun takes. Same as if she didn't know the brand - not needed to perform her job. Knowledge of how her gun works and what it fires? Needed.

Seriously I can't stand the way you guys knee jerk defend this b.s. ignorance. [thinking]
One more instance of The Thin Blue Line - they simply CANNOT stand any criticism of their own. Sorry, guys - you do a needed job, but you really need to take off the blinders when it comes to one of your own who's an idiot or incompetent.
 
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