Gun Control - Democrat Presidential Debate

[USMA-82]

For those of you who missed it tonight, the format was questions asked of the candidates via YouTube videos from "Mr and Mrs America." It was the usual Bush-bashing, Republican-Trashing fare, but I had to watch to see if guns or the Second Amendment would be addressed. Sure enough - there was one video question.

Here's how the gun-loving folks at CNN probably came up with their pick:

*********************************************************

Scene: Two weeks ago in the executive offices of CNN

“OK, folks. We’re almost done. The last topic we want to present at the Presidential Debate is gun control. Granted, we’d rather not talk about it, but I think some small, but loud segment of the country will want to hear something.”

“Well, obviously, we need to give anything connected with guns a negative spin. What exactly are we looking for?”

“In the best of all possible worlds: a barely coherent video, preferably staring a younger male (to create reminders of Cho and Virginia Tech), hopefully living somewhere that can be associated with gun nuts like militia members (maybe, Michigan?), and holding an evil assault weapon of some kind (to remind voters why we need to bring back the Assault Weapons Ban), and saying something really stupid… like referring to his guns as “his babies.”

“Yeah, right. Like we’re going to find something like that out of the 3,000 videos we’ve collected…”

“Wait a minute, guys. Check this one out……”

(in unison) “SCORE!”

 

[fubar]

" Well , this is my baby ... " and he holds up a tricked out EBR.

I couldn't decide what I thought of that guy. He didn't scare me , or seem at all unstable. I coudn't tell if it was a shooter deliberately screwing around with the Dems , a fictional scam , or a psycho.

 

[Marcus in the Darkus]

I didn't see it. Any links? Who of the candidates responded, and how?

 

[LoginName]

I didn't see it. Any links? Who of the candidates responded, and how?

Here's the gun owner in question...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqrpjLZJVu4

 

[USMA-82]

Joe Biden's response shows up on YouTube when you click on the initial video. He thinks the "guy should have his head examined" and should probably be "disqualified from owning a gun."

Gee, what a surprise - from the guy who authored the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.....

 

[Weerd Beard]

Gee, what a surprise - from the guy who authored the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.....

also what Biden didn't relize was that the AR in the question is AWB compliant, and was bought DURRING the ban. Gun-grabbers who know nothing about the anti-gun laws they pass...who'd-a-thunk it!

 

[Major D Ret.]

I am not acquainted with the "gentleman" in the video, but based
on his demeanor - dress, attitude, and choice of words, I can't do
anything but agree with Senator Biden's opinion of him.

I realize the "gentleman" might perhaps be a saint, a reicarnation
of Pope John Paul II with a little Mother Theresa and Albert Einstein
added in, but in that video he came across as a moderately deranged, confrontational loser itching for an excuse to throw down on someone
with his "baby."

There's US and there's THEM and there's THOSE IN BETWEEN.
Our mission is to convince THOSE IN BETWEEN that we are not
a threat to their well being. Does anyone reading this seriously
think our brother in the video made us any new friends last night?

MAJOR D

 

[Weerd Beard]

but in that video he came across as a moderately deranged, confrontational loser itching for an excuse to throw down on someone
with his "baby."

Wow, what video did you watch?

Ever been to an auto-show? You'll see a lot of people and their "Babies". They love the cars they own and took time to build and work on, and they LOVE to drive them around...not even to the store...just to DRIVE!

Go on a hot summer day, and you'll see lots of shorts and sleeveless shirts.

Obviously this is a congregation of mentally deranged people looking to run over people with their "Assault Cars".

Maybe a different video could have been selected, but I think, in the end, you're drinking Biden's Kool-Aid.

Nothing wrong with enjoying your possessions!

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[USMA-82]

Does anyone reading this seriously
think our brother in the video made us any new friends last night?

MAJOR D

No, and that's the point - that video was carefully selected by CNN out of many others to provide an anti-gun spin.

What did you expect? Something like this:

Scene: Local shooting range - well-maintained, bright, and busy

Camera focuses on a young mother who is crouched down next to her handicapped daughter, shooting a .22 rifle from a wheelchair.

Shooting stops, and the woman says:

"I'm a neurosurgeon who enjoys recreational shooting with my daughter. My husband (man carrying shotgun enters picture) is a hunter. My son (teenage boy enters picture carrying rifle) is a national smallbore rifle champion. Two years ago, I was raped in a parking lot because I could not defend myself, and it took 20 minutes for the police to arrive. Now, I carry a firearm for self-protection (shows camera a blued revolver). Presidential Candidates - are you going to take our guns away?"

I'm sure this is the video they were really looking for last night.....

 

[calsdad]

If that is the best that CNN can do to portray gun owners as lunatics they had better try a little harder. Don't they know you aren't supposed to discriminate against people based on how they look?

Does the guy "look" a little weird? Well yes - maybe, depending on how you view these things. Did he say anything strange or in any way menacing? Not that I can see and I watched the video times.

This just goes to show that it is really the liberal/Democrats who are the ones with the real underlying bigotry - they make up their mind based on purely what this guy looks like.

If the person who made that video was a black woman who was a deacon in her local church and ran the city homeless shelter along with raising 10 foster children - and owned the gun because she had been raped before and wanted it for protection - would we even be having this conversation?

 

[dwarven1]

I am not acquainted with the "gentleman" in the video, but based on his demeanor - dress, attitude, and choice of words, I can't do anything but agree with Senator Biden's opinion of him.

I can't view the video here at work, but apparently I missed the part in the Second Amendment where it says "unless you have an attitude or dress badly". Can you point it out to me, please?

He may not look like a buttoned-down preppy type or Mrs Suzy Soccermom, but if he's an American citizen (and not a felon), last time I looked he had the right to own that firearm. Unless he lives in MA, NYC, Chicago, Morton Grove or any other fascist state or locality, of course.

 

[csharpdev]

If the person who made that video was a black woman who was a deacon in her local church and ran the city homeless shelter along with raising 10 foster children - and owned the gun because she had been raped before and wanted it for protection - would we even be having this conversation?

No we wouldn't because that video would never air. Painting a positive picture of firearms wouldn't support the far left agenda.

 

[pipmaster1971]

No, and that's the point - that video was carefully selected by CNN out of many others to provide an anti-gun spin.

What did you expect? Something like this:

Scene: Local shooting range - well-maintained, bright, and busy

Camera focuses on a young mother who is crouched down next to her handicapped daughter, shooting a .22 rifle from a wheelchair.

Shooting stops, and the woman says:

"I'm a neurosurgeon who enjoys recreational shooting with my daughter. My husband (man carrying shotgun enters picture) is a hunter. My son (teenage boy enters picture carrying rifle) is a national smallbore rifle champion. Two years ago, I was raped in a parking lot because I could not defend myself, and it took 20 minutes for the police to arrive. Now, I carry a firearm for self-protection (shows camera a blued revolver). Presidential Candidates - are you going to take our guns away?"

I'm sure this is the video they were really looking for last night.....

+1 on that. I'm sure they could've found a more ... errrm ... "normal" .... gun owner than the guy on the video. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's a decent person, but he hardly looks mainstream. I guess "ordinary" wouldn't be edgy enough.

Does anyone have the responses BTW?

This just goes to show that it is really the liberal/Democrats who are the ones with the real underlying bigotry - they make up their mind based on purely what this guy looks like.

Yeah right

 

[Weerd Beard]

Does anyone have the responses BTW?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW3ghj5HSkI

Its got the question and a responce by Richadson and Biden. Dunno if anybody else chimed in after that...

 

[bpm990d]

think our brother in the video made us any new friends last night?

I agree. It is about new friends, not posturing for gun owners. I'd give his video question to the presidential candidates a D.

There use to be gun hearings at the Mass State House and there were always some boneheads that showed up with camouflage and looking like schlubs. Guess who got on TV. People use to say that they were plants, but I doubt it.

B

 

[Major D Ret.]

To all my comrades who have missed the point,

Proponents of the second amendment have an ironclad, god given right to verbally defend it while foaming at the mouth and wearing a chicken suit if
they so choose. However there are better ways to do it.

We will not win over anyone who's sitting on the fence by shoving a
scary looking assault (style) rifle in their faces and then with dead seriousness introducing it to them as a member of our family. Especially if we look like we live in a cave and steal our clothes from Salvation Army drop boxes.

Image is everything. A coat, tie, and haircut and shave will get us a million bucks worth of credibility. AND the f***ing guns should stay out of sight unless we're on a firing line, or we really, really need to show them to emphasize our point in a positive, upbeat way.


Though his heart and mind were in the right place and he had the best of
intentions, our comrade in the video played right into the hands of our
enemies by projecting the image of a person slightly less than "all there" armed with a very dangerous weapon. I fear he did us much harm in the minds of the ignorant and uninitiated.

MAJOR D.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Image is everything. A coat, tie, and haircut and shave will get us a million bucks worth of credibility. AND the f***ing guns should stay out of sight unless we're on a firing line, or we really, really need to show them to emphasize our point in a positive, upbeat way.


Though his heart and mind were in the right place and he had the best of
intentions, our comrade in the video played right into the hands of our
enemies by projecting the image of a person slightly less than "all there" armed with a very dangerous weapon. I fear he did us much harm in the minds of the ignorant and uninitiated.

MAJOR D.

+1 I have to agree with you there. Of course since when have you seen Wayne LaPierre wairing a sleeveless shirt? We have many of those representatives who are well groomed and smartly dressed (I can't speek for myself here), and I'm sure many of those people also posted questions about the 2nd Amendment.

They weren't chosen to air. Bottom line the people who ARE ignorant and uninitiated are our opponants, weather wilfully ignorant or otherwise. If they weren't ignorant about guns, they'd be on our side! We have to fight this battle with the tools we have.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[dwarven1]

Can't argue with that point - public relations is key. Unfortunately, with 80 million gun owners in the country, ranging from people like John Rosenthal (uber-wealthy) to my bro Mike (disabled and on disability) you will find folks wearing suits and folks wearing shorts and sleeveless t-shirts.

We're just going to have to accept that the lamestream media WILL seek out and air interviews from the most scruffy of us, and they will try to twist our words as much as possible. Short of a national movement to ban scruffy clothes among gun owners, I don't see how we can get over this.

Hell, when I go to an Appleseed shoot, I'm in a T-shirt (for comfort) and BDU pants (because I know I'm going to be shooting prone and don't feel like ruining a pair of jeans - the BDUs are tough and cheap to replace) so if you film me then, I'll probably not look my best, either.

 

[bpm990d]

Personally, I think he was more interested in getting on TV than in helping the 2nd.

B

 

[News Shooter]

I just can't imagine wasting any of the breaths I have left in me watching
those ass-hats. What could any of them have to say that could possibly be of any interest to us?

If Chelsea's mother said she would write a law requiring every adult in America to own at least one hi-cap AR-15, what would it matter? She's a lying thief like all the rest of them.

I'm done now

 

[drgrant]

I am not acquainted with the "gentleman" in the video, but based
on his demeanor - dress, attitude, and choice of words, I can't do
anything but agree with Senator Biden's opinion of him.

Oh noes its a guy dressed in wal mart digs holding a rifle, we're all going to
lose now!

Even if people like this guy didn't exist it's not too far out of the realm of the
liberal communist playbook to "invent" shills and the like. So even if this
guy didn't videotape himself I'm sure CNN or whoever would have just "found"
another one anyways. I'm surprised they didn't decide to find a video of a
klansmen with a rifle threatening black people, that is how low the media has
gotten to these days.

I realize "image" is sometimes important, but it's not like this guy is an NRA rep
or something... he's someone that likes his rifle, big deal.

On that note, yeah, we could use better advocates, especially women, for a
lot of this type of stuff, purely from a PR standpoint. The thing is- they are
out there, and it's largely an untapped resource. (especially people who
have defended their lives or someone elses with a firearm, or people who
have been denied that right by virtue of shitty gun laws. )

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Joe Biden's response shows up on YouTube when you click on the initial video. He thinks the "guy should have his head examined" and should probably be "disqualified from owning a gun."

Gee, what a surprise - from the guy who authored the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.....

IMO Biden should be convicted of treason or civil rights violations, along with
every other douchebag that signed the AWB. Biden and friends are nothing
more than criminals to me- scum that are worse than even the murdering
street thugs- after all, the antis enable them by preventing everyone else
from being armed.

-Mike

 

[EddieCoyle]

I'm willing to put that whole YouTube gun control question down as "preaching to the choir".

The picked a guy - a caricature - that is so over the top that anybody with 1/2 a brain can see it for exactly what it was: a ham-fisted attempt to make gun owners look bad.

That will play well with the moonbat base for the primaries. However, stuff like this could hurt them in a general election because people will recognize the bias. The whole LA-Times-last-minute-revelations about Arnold are a recent example where this type of "see-through journalism" backfired.

 

[Windwalker]

At times we're our own worst enemy...

I have to agree with many of the comments. The guy in the video may be the real thing, or a plant - I don't know. Do I suspect CNN reached into the hat and selected, based on chance? I've experienced too much bias in news reporting to believe that.

In my view, whether we like it or not, helping others to understand and support the protection offered by the 2nd Amendment is heavily influenced by image. From my psychology classes, too many years ago, I learned that we humans tend to form an initial snap judgment of others, based on their outward appearance. You or I may speak eloquently for our cause, but if our image triggers an unacceptable stereotype for the listener, our words are filtered by their preconception based on appearances and behavior.

It becomes our responsibility to THINK before we speak, write, or present our views in public (whether in person, in a video, or on a public forum like this). Our appearance and choice of words must combine to portray is as what we are - honest, law-abiding Americans, who support our Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and as someone who has no intention of hurting others unless our own lives are threatened. That's it, I'm finished for now.

 

[LoginName]

Wow, what video did you watch?

Ever been to an auto-show? You'll see a lot of people and their "Babies". They love the cars they own and took time to build and work on, and they LOVE to drive them around...not even to the store...just to DRIVE!

Go on a hot summer day, and you'll see lots of shorts and sleeveless shirts.

Obviously this is a congregation of mentally deranged people looking to run over people with their "Assault Cars".

Maybe a different video could have been selected, but I think, in the end, you're drinking Biden's Kool-Aid.

Nothing wrong with enjoying your possessions!

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

Looks like you have an admirer over at YouTube...

WeerdBeard: Hey wacko. Whether it's AWB compliant or not isn't the issue. Too many hicks with "apocalypse-is-around-the-corner" mentalities is the issue, and you're one of 'em.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Hell, when I go to an Appleseed shoot, I'm in a T-shirt (for comfort) and BDU pants (because I know I'm going to be shooting prone and don't feel like ruining a pair of jeans - the BDUs are tough and cheap to replace) so if you film me then, I'll probably not look my best, either.

Not to mention you, I and many other NES-ers and shooters in general have a certain eversion to razors

I guess another reason why that responce gets me so worked up is why are gun owners supposed to well dressed and presentable all the time?

Sure not many of us will come off as ham-handed as the man in the video (though also many of us won't come off as well-spoken as him either)

We do dress like that! Am I going to clean my 1911, or scrape the cosmoline off of a Mosin Nagant while wairing a $600 suit? Hell or even just a nice quality t-shirt?

We don't expect to see our Mechanic wairing a nice polo-shirt and some expensive slacks, accented by Gucci Loafers. No, I expect him to be wairing rugged clothes and to have grease and rust on himself. Does this make me think negativly of him? Just the opposite. I never take my truck to the dealership for work (except on rare occations where I'm forced to) because there are guys in dress clothes, who won't touch my truck who I'm paying for anyway.

So why must gun owners be forced to project an image that most Americans don't project?

I have a beard, I prefer to wair cheap clothes that I won't mind ruining. I'm college educated, employed, and a devoted husband. I'm also a gun owner, and damnit, I do love my guns! I don't hunt, and while not opposed to it, I'm really not that interested in it, and I keep guns for personal defence.

What's so unsuitable about me?

 

[Coyote33]

Adding to the spin, yahoo news calls it "bizarre".

Video questions submitted to the hip Web site YouTube shook up the usual campaign debate Monday night. The questions, most of them coming from young people, were blunt and earnest, yet sometimes bizarre.

"He needs help," Delaware Sen. Joe Biden said after watching a video of a man holding an automatic weapon and asking how the candidates would protect his "baby." "I don't know if he's mentally qualified to own that gun."

 

[Patriot]

If you think that these things 'just happen', think again. Nothing in politics
'just happens'. These lunatics have carefully staged this entire presentation,
and that is exactly what it is, a presentation, in order to try to bring relevancy
to the Democratic candidates. The R's are no different. The only people that
are being fooled are the idiots watching this manure that want to be.

 

[rscalzo]

Not to mention you, I and many other NES-ers and shooters in general have a certain eversion to razors

Since I retired I see no reason to shave every day unless I have a social engagement of some other reason to do so. I keep getting yelled at by my wife when it gets too long....

 

[bpm990d]

So why must gun owners be forced to project an image that most Americans don't project?

If reality was the issue, then there would be no debate about gun control or assault weapons bans, or magazine capacities. In some instances, perception is more important than reality.

If you want them to hear your argument, don't provide something to distract them from it.

B