Gun Club closure megathread

[dcmdon]

There it is right there, Folks. This exactly what I have said, This only empowers the cops to become bigger thugs. This is how Organized Crime works.

Agreed. One of the key differences I noticed when I moved to MA from CT was that in CT , no license of any kind is required to possess firarms. So even if they pull your pistol permit in CT, you can still possess everything and you can still do what you want with long guns.

In MA you need a license merely to POSSESS. That means if htey pull it, your guns had better be out of state or they will be lost.

 

[Dave Marshall]

You have a good relationship with an entity who might pull your license for a right on a whim?

I didn’t say I like the arrangement. It’s in my best interest to stay on their good side, so I do.

 

[Jason Flare]

I didn’t say I like the arrangement. It’s in my best interest to stay on their good side, so I do.

Actually it’s not in your best interest long term to stay on their good side but that’s a very big discussion for another time.

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, MIRCS is for gun shops. You would do a eFA10 which as far as I know still working. No idea if anyone is paying more attention to those these days. Might be an alarm bell in Healy’s office that goes off. Course someone might wonder why you’re driving to NH buying guns when you should be home. LOL

Nobody at the state cares about FTF transfers in state or registrations. It is the dealers that they are after and hope to shut down permanently!

Also if you PROPERLY fill out the eFA-10 registration, they will never know where you got the gun. They ask all sorts of info that they are not entitled to and in some cases (mostly C&R purchases for C&R FFLs) it can look like you are admitting to Federal and state felonies (and they have been known to follow up on those) if you fill it out the way the website is designed.

 

[Dadstoys]

I didn’t say I like the arrangement. It’s in my best interest to stay on their good side, so I do.

I agree , if you got on their bad side they might shut your club down for a month , oh wait.

 

[SgtHal75]

Anybody know if Andover (ASC) is going to open tomorrow?

 

[KBCraig]

Revoking everyone in town is the definition of arbitrary and capricious. After they lose the massive 1983 lawsuit, the chief would lose his job as well. This is a ridiculous reason to bend over and take it dry!!!

They wouldn't have to revoke. They could just turn hard red and refuse to renew.

Not many clubs could survive losing a fifth of their membership this year, another fifth next year, etc.

 

[ScottS]

Aren't Clubs in MA regional, rather than simply town-based? Our Club has members from more than 20 towns, some even in MA. How would the PoPo know who's LTC to revoke/non-renew? It's not like the Public Library or the Dump, i.e. open only to residents. A Club disallows the PD to train, and they get all pissy, how do they know the membership? Do they revoke everyone in the town, even those who don't belong to the Club? I think this line of reasoning assumes an awful lot of a priori knowledge on the part the local agency.

 

[dcmdon]

They wouldn't have to revoke. They could just turn hard red and refuse to renew.

Not many clubs could survive losing a fifth of their membership this year, another fifth next year, etc.

I don't know about the clubs you belong to but the 2 clubs I belong to, Harvard and Mass Rifle, are cursed with an exploding membership. Frankly it would be easier on the club if fewer people joined. Both clubs also have plenty of money.

They've been around for 100+ years (145 years in the case of MRA) and everything owned by the club is paid for and both clubs are thrifty when it comes to expenditures. Also, most labor is member donated time. So overall expenses are minimal.

 

[Asaltweapon]

The towns don’t even have their shit together. Take a look at the list and see who is open. The damn clubs and towns are not even on the same effing page.
There has to be more to the Harvard story.

 

[Len-2A Training]

They wouldn't have to revoke. They could just turn hard red and refuse to renew.

Not many clubs could survive losing a fifth of their membership this year, another fifth next year, etc.

Same thing. A pattern wouldn't survive a court case even in MA. Also, most clubs have members from all over. When I was legislative chairman of the FUDD club in MA (300 members, small town club), only ~40 lived in the same town as the club. Members came from ~30mile radius. Braintree R&P and Mansfield F&G are similar. In fact BR&P seemed to have not many Braintree members and that is a 6000 member club.

 

[dcmdon]

The fact that MA requires a license just to POSSESS actually makes it nearly impossible for them to start refusing to renew or issue in this post Heller world. It just wouldn't stand up.

Heller explicitly covers the right to possess a handgun in the home.

Without an LTC, you can't even do that.

 

[Dave Marshall]

The fact that MA requires a license just to POSSESS actually makes it nearly impossible for them to start refusing to renew or issue in this post Heller world. It just wouldn't stand up.

Heller explicitly covers the right to possess a handgun in the home.

Without an LTC, you can't even do that.

Like I said before, even if you’re right you still lose.

If your LTC is revoked for any reason, your firearms are confiscated. You won’t have a choice in this or the ability to send your guns elsewhere. Your $2k or higher firearms will be thrown in the back of a cruiser and then dumped into an evidence room. They will not be treated gently or cared for like you would. When you finally win your court case a few years later, they will be returned to you in an all but worthless condition, if you haven’t lost them to the bonded warehouse. You will have spent tens of thousands to restore your rights and your firearms investment gets ruined. You lose.

f*** this state.

 

[Austin Franklin]

There has to be more to the Harvard story.

Not sure what story you heard, but basically, neighbors complained to the Boxboro police that they heard gun shots....at the Harvard Sportsman's Club gun range....and called the Boxboro police. Subsequently, the Boxboro police showed up at the range and told people there that they had to leave. The Boxboro PD claim there is a state "order" that shuts down shooting at shooting ranges, and that they were enforcing that order. Boxboro PD informed some member(s) of the HSC board. The HSC board complied with the Boxboro PD request to prohibit members from shooting (until further notice I guess).

 

[18 Ventura]

To All Members:

Pursuant to Governor Baker's order on March 23 and by a Board of Director ("Board") vote, all activities of the Andover Sportsmen's Club shall cease and the Club declared as "Shut-down" effective mid night Thursday March 26, 2020 and will remain Shut-down for a period of two weeks until a new vote of the Board is taken on Friday April 10, 2020 to decide if the closure should be amended, ended or extended.

On April 10th the Board of Director's voted to extend the shutdown now in effect until, and will terminate on, May 4, 2020 unless the Commonwealth of Massachusetts "Stay at home" edict should be changed to an earlier date in which instance the ASC shutdown policy will automatically end on the earlier date and the members will be so notified.

In the event the "Stay at home" edict should be extended beyond May 4, 2020 a new Board of Director's vote will be taken on May 4, 2020 to decide if the current ASC shutdown should be amended, ended or extended.

Closure/shut-down includes all ranges, all training classes, all food service and all social occasions. The exceptions will be restricted only to Directors plus security staff monitoring so long as they are engaged only in administration, maintenance or security matters.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not sure what story you heard, but basically, neighbors complained to the Boxboro police that they heard gun shots....at the Harvard Sportsman's Club gun range....and called the Boxboro police. Subsequently, the Boxboro police showed up at the range and told people there that they had to leave. The Boxboro PD claim there is a state "order" that shuts down shooting at shooting ranges, and that they were enforcing that order. Boxboro PD informed some member(s) of the HSC board. The HSC board complied with the Boxboro PD request to prohibit members from shooting (until further notice I guess).

That's all it takes! While listening to the scanner in MA a few days ago I heard a dispatcher send the police to "investigate" (shutdown) a gun club. They got a call from some busybody about gun shots coming from the local gun club. I didn't pickup the location or PD on the radio.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Closure/shut-down includes all ranges, all training classes, all food service and all social occasions. The exceptions will be restricted only to Directors plus security staff monitoring so long as they are engaged only in administration, maintenance or security matters.

+1 to the club for having the integrity not to carve out an shooting exception for the directors.

Your $2k or higher firearms will be thrown in the back of a cruiser and then dumped into an evidence room

More like "The police will send out several of their SUVs to load up your armory including ammunition. If the police decide to be nice to you they will give you an itemized receipt for what they take; not take other stuff (like crossbows) and allow you to remove those pricey ACOGs and NightForce scopes from your weapons before taking them. They will then make a "hurry up, the gun owner is trying to have his stuff transferred to a dealer" call to a bonded warehouse.".

Speaking of which - this is where it comes in VERY handy to have the cell # of an FFL you have given a lot of business to, The guns are taken for a 209A only a MA licensed dealer can take possession, and without a connection, you won't have anyone to call with all the shops closed. Something to think about when you chase the very last dollar off a price.

 

[dcmdon]

Unless you move them out of state.

If the offense does not make you a prohibited person, then you are 100 % within the law to never tell the cops where they are. As long as they are not in MA.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Unless you move them out of state.

If the offense does not make you a prohibited person, then you are 100 % within the law to never tell the cops where they are. As long as they are not in MA.

I suspect the MA courts would disagree if the guns were still under your control or in constructive possession. If you can just go and get them, they are still under your control. If someone else has them but it is clear they will give them to you if you ask you likely have "constructive possession".

The law says you are obligated to "surrender all guns", and makes no distinction as to the state in which they are stored. The argument "not in MA exempts them" is logically equivalent to "my money is in a bank account at an institution in another state, so I am not obligated to withdraw any money from it to pay a judgment against me issued by a MA court".

Simplistic conclusions like this presented as fact are a danger to those who accept them as absolutely true without understanding the nuances.

Right about now is when I expect Lens to either correct me or agree with me on this one, so you get a second free opinion that is worth exactly what you paid for it. (that didn't take long ... less than one minute from posting)

 

[KBCraig]

LFGC president Ed Bouche Jr. on the radio:

https://www.londonderryfishandgameclub.com/media/Ed%20Bouche%20-%20Dianna%20Ploss.mp4

 

[Shawnyc]

Sippican Rod and Gun Club in Rochester is closed until further notice.

 

[FisherTech]

Folks, This is when Acts of Civil Disobedience are justified. Also it maybe time for these clubs to can their Board of Directors.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Folks, This is when Acts of Civil Disobedience are justified. Also it maybe time for these clubs to can their Board of Directors.

Or take the approach that Londonderry F&G took and en masse phone/Email blast the state officials to the point that they have to respond. It'll never happen in MA, but only orgs like GOAL and/or Comm2A could drive such an effort.

 

[FisherTech]

Or take the approach that Londonderry F&G took and en masse phone/Email blast the state officials to the point that they have to respond. It'll never happen in MA, but only orgs like GOAL and/or Comm2A could drive such an effort.

And there lies the problem with that state.
Something else to think about, Where does the government get the right to restrict the activity on private property that is and has been the current trend of use, with out due process or compensation? This is a 4th Amendment TAKING. The sheep are allowing this.

 

[mousegunfan]

I suspect the MA courts would disagree if the guns were still under your control or in constructive possession. If you can just go and get them, they are still under your control. If someone else has them but it is clear they will give them to you if you ask you likely have "constructive possession".

The law says you are obligated to "surrender all guns", and makes no distinction as to the state in which they are stored. The argument "not in MA exempts them" is logically equivalent to "my money is in a bank account at an institution in another state, so I am not obligated to withdraw any money from it to pay a judgment against me issued by a MA court".

Simplistic conclusions like this presented as fact are a danger to those who accept them as absolutely true without understanding the nuances.

Right about now is when I expect Lens to either correct me or agree with me on this one, so you get a second free opinion that is worth exactly what you paid for it. (that didn't take long ... less than one minute from posting)

Wrong, it's not illegal for you to have them in NH. It's not about ownership, it's about possession and MA can't tell what you can do out of state. You must turn over all guns in MA jurisdiction.

As to judgements someone has to go to a NH court to pursue a MA judgment.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Wrong, it's not illegal for you to have them in NH. It's not about ownership, it's about possession and MA can't tell what you can do out of state. You must turn over all guns in MA jurisdiction.

As to judgements someone has to go to a NH court to pursue a MA judgment.

That's not the issue. If you fail to tell the MA police where they are located, they will charge you with C. 269 S. 10, a felony . . . and they love to do this.

What the PD does wrt the out of state location is up to them and the PD in the jurisdiction that the non-MA guns are located. MA PDs don't go out of state to retrieve them, they call their counterparts and ask them to do the deed.

 

[Dave Marshall]

Now let’s imagine instead of just revoking your LTC, the local police file a Red Flag ERPO against you....

f***. This. State.

 

[EzGoingKev]

It is amazing how this thread has gone from gun range closures to full blown retard with chiefs not renewing licenses for entire towns and people going to jail for imaginary firearms seizures.

 

[mousegunfan]

That's not the issue. If you fail to tell the MA police where they are located, they will charge you with C. 269 S. 10, a felony . . . and they love to do this.

What the PD does wrt the out of state location is up to them and the PD in the jurisdiction that the non-MA guns are located. MA PDs don't go out of state to retrieve them, they call their counterparts and ask them to do the deed.

Still disagree. Nothing in that section applies. Maybe you can point out the specific paragraph.

 

[Nick Fury]

That's not the issue. If you fail to tell the MA police where they are located, they will charge you with C. 269 S. 10, a felony . . . and they love to do this.

What the PD does wrt the out of state location is up to them and the PD in the jurisdiction that the non-MA guns are located. MA PDs don't go out of state to retrieve them, they call their counterparts and ask them to do the deed.

I have seen this reported as being done. Right here on this forum...