Gun Club closure megathread

Asaltweapon

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I'm not sure what kind of reply you're expecting - I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying how it is at one club. The difference in this case between law enforcement and regular members is that those guys have someone cleaning up after them, but the club can't clean up after every member (nor rely on every member being able to do a thorough job so as not to put anyone else at risk) - so the chance of infection is different. It wasn't law enforcement (or an order from the Governor) that shut our range down, it was a highly infectious virus. So I don't see this as a double-standard - it's two different scenarios, with one better able to keep people safe than the other.
Closed is closed. Did the club close because of a virus or as mandated by the state or should I say Maura??? Why is LEO given a pass?? Because they said they will clean up after themselves? That’s just rich right there.
 

Rob Boudrie

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So a liability issue. OK. I'm certain that every law enforcement person using the range signed a liability waiver absolving the club of any culpability should they become infected?
If one is serious about liability protection from an outside group using the facilities, the real solution is to require an insurance policy listing the club, officers, directors and persons working on behalf of the clubs as "additional insureds". Liability waivers can range from a speedbump to a hart stop with litigation, and you won't be able to tell with certainty in advance. At minimum, you would need to fund you side in the legal action brought to have the waiver declared invalid.
 
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Asaltweapon

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If one is serious about liability protection from an outside group using the facilities, the real solution is to require an insurance policy listing the club, officers, directors and persons working on behalf of the clubs as "additional insureds". Liability waivers can range from a speedbump to a dead in with litigation, and you won't be able to tell with certainty in advance. At minimum, you would need to fund you side in the legal action brought to have the waiver declared invalid.
Very true both from the individual and the department.
 

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If one is serious about liability protection from an outside group using the facilities, the real solution is to require an insurance policy listing the club, officers, directors and persons working on behalf of the clubs as "additional insureds". Liability waivers can range from a speedbump to a dead in with litigation, and you won't be able to tell with certainty in advance. At minimum, you would need to fund you side in the legal action brought to have the waiver declared invalid.
I remember when the police were shooting at a club in the Reading area and a shot got out and hit a house. IIRC the club got shut down over that issue and it was proven that it was a police training event where they were the only ones shooting when it happened. Collect all the waivers you want, the end result will be the same.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I remember when the police were shooting at a club in the Reading area and a shot got out and hit a house. IIRC the club got shut down over that issue and it was proven that it was a police training event where they were the only ones shooting when it happened. Collect all the waivers you want, the end result will be the same.
Sort of like how in the entire recorded history of the MSP, no trooper has ever been at fault in an accident when driving an official vehicle.
 

zork51

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UPDATE - Just saw this on the Leominster Sportsmen's Association website.
If the reason they did not send out an email wasn't because they were too embarrassed to send one, then it should have been.



Absolute horseshit in my opinion.

🐯
Hard to believe this state would be willing to provide "clarity" on anything 2A related. It's great to see some awesome lawyers on our side. Perhaps this is "how the game" has to be played. I sincerely hope any portion of the recently filed lawsuits is successful. Enough is enough. Outdoor ranges...…….. I like the idea one of the posters here said of signing a waiver which releases the club from any liability should one fall ill. The Democratic Agenda to torpedo the best economy in decades is sailing along quite nicely, whilst locking people away. GF said they just closed the Mass Rail Trail in West Boylson .
 

Rob Boudrie

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Hard to believe this state would be willing to provide "clarity" on anything 2A related. It's great to see some awesome lawyers on our side. Perhaps this is "how the game" has to be played. I sincerely hope any portion of the recently filed lawsuits is successful. Enough is enough. Outdoor ranges...…….. I like the idea one of the posters here said of signing a waiver which releases the club from any liability should one fall ill. The Democratic Agenda to torpedo the best economy in decades is sailing along quite nicely, whilst locking people away. GF said they just closed the Mass Rail Trail in West Boylson .
Do you know if the law allows an individual to waive the rights of a minor child who would be deprived of support if a parent died?
 

Jason Flare

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I'm not sure what kind of reply you're expecting - I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying how it is at one club. The difference in this case between law enforcement and regular members is that those guys have someone cleaning up after them, but the club can't clean up after every member (nor rely on every member being able to do a thorough job so as not to put anyone else at risk) - so the chance of infection is different. It wasn't law enforcement (or an order from the Governor) that shut our range down, it was a highly infectious virus. So I don't see this as a double-standard - it's two different scenarios, with one better able to keep people safe than the other.
An easy solution to allow the club to be open to members is to require that every member using the range disinfect the range before and after they use it.

On a side note, are the police disinfecting before they use the range?
 

Picton

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In the case of the Lowell Sportsmen's Club, the Middlesex Sheriffs qualify their officers there, which they need to do to maintain their licenses and keep doing their jobs. Local police requested to use the range to qualify recent graduates from the academy so they can likewise get on the job quickly. In both cases, they have extensive disinfection protocols, with one officer staying about an hour afterward wiping down every surface they touched (including the brass cleanup rakes), bagging up every bit of trash they produced, and taking it all away with them. They also provide all of their own wipes, sprays, gloves, and masks. This same procedure would not happen with all of our members, so the board was okay with making a distinction in this case because the risk of infection is minimized and the community benefits during this crisis. No, it's not an ideal situation by any means, but it's the situation we've got. If anyone can make COVID-19 go away, please do.
Why do guys who JUST graduated from the academy need to qualify? Am I wrong in assuming they’d have had to shoot for qualification as a graduation requirement?
 

Asaltweapon

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Why do guys who JUST graduated from the academy need to qualify? Am I wrong in assuming they’d have had to shoot for qualification as a graduation requirement?
They shoot at the academy. My buddies kid is, well he was in the current class. We took him to Harvard to teach him basics so that he would have a leg up on his classmates. His dad is very competitive when it comes to shooting.
 

Picton

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They shoot at the academy. My buddies kid is, well he was in the current class. We took him to Harvard to teach him basics so that he would have a leg up on his classmates. His dad is very competitive when it comes to shooting.
That’s my point exactly. They’re Middlesex Sherrifs with recently documented firearms qualifications already. The argument that they MUST use an otherwise closed facility that the members (who pay for it) cannot use is, plainly, horseshit.
 
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Sort of like how in the entire recorded history of the MSP, no trooper has ever been at fault in an accident when driving an official vehicle.
Interesting. I've always wondered the incidence rate of off-duty police officers receiving everyday traffic tickets (i.e. not involving a DUI that can't be swept under the rug). I would bet it's close to zero, of course because they are so highly vetted, self-disciplined, averse to having open containers in their car, and trained in traffic safety.
 
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If it is deemed "not safe" for one then it is "not safe" for all.

I went to HSC Monday night and shot. I have my own target stands. I set up in one of the action pits. I backed my car in there and shot out of my trunk. I did not touch anything. After spending the last three weeks in the house it was a much needed break to get out and do something normal. I was planning on going back up there again.

I am unhappy that the club was shot down. I would be furious to hear the club was shut down to all members but LEO's could still use it.
 

ScottS

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From the Club's FB Post:

ATTENTION MEMBERS: Londonderry Fish & Game has been contacted by the Town of Londonderry informing us that a Cease & Desist order is forth coming - ordering us to shut down and deny all club members the use of the club facilities due to COVID-19 Concerns. We have consulted a lawyer and believe that this is an unlawful order. We plan on taking swift legal action in the best interest of the Club and it's Membership.

If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the Londonderry town council. Email is best, but phone calls are also good. Please be respectful. Ask why this UNLAWFUL action is being planned.

Londonderry Town website:
https://www.londonderrynh.org/town-council
Email the town council at [email protected]
Kirby Brown / Executive Assistant (603) 432-1100 x 120
Joe Green / Vice-Chairman (603) 432-1100 x 168
Tom Dolan / Councilor (603) 432-1100 x 165
John Farrell / Chairman (603) 432-1100 x 164
Jim Butler / Councilor (603) 432-1100 x 167
Deb Paul Councilor (603) 432-1100 x 166
LONDONDERRY FISH & GAME CLUB, INC.
Sincerely,
Ed Bouche Jr
Club President

Nice to see a club leadership with some balls.
UPDATE FROM THE CLUB FB:

Evidently the Londonderry F&G Officer decided on his own, with no authority, to notify the Club and tell them a Cease and Desist order was coming to shut down the Club. The Club leadership energized their resources, including their members, to engage the town and find out WTF. The town quickly crab-walked and threw the F&G Officer under the bus ("He had no authority; this is misinformation, Please stop emailing," etc.) They consider it a win, and a closed situation.

One interesting side note: evidently there were some quislings who wanted to "go along" and close the club. The Club leadership posted this on their FB Page: "What did we learn today, People? Time to clean out the FUDD's"

I love this club; I have to look at joining.
 

KBCraig

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An easy solution to allow the club to be open to members is to require that every member using the range disinfect the range before and after they use it.

On a side note, are the police disinfecting before they use the range?
No-no-no... the police are the Only Ones Professional Enough to Disinfect This Range.
 

dcmdon

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I'm not sure what kind of reply you're expecting - I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying how it is at one club. The difference in this case between law enforcement and regular members is that those guys have someone cleaning up after them, but the club can't clean up after every member (nor rely on every member being able to do a thorough job so as not to put anyone else at risk) - so the chance of infection is different. It wasn't law enforcement (or an order from the Governor) that shut our range down, it was a highly infectious virus. So I don't see this as a double-standard - it's two different scenarios, with one better able to keep people safe than the other.
Maybe they should learn to clean up like that all the time.

When cops use HSC they shoot crap up and leave a mess. Lets not even begin to talk about all the horrible muzzle discipline. (Well over half of these guys only shoot once per year - at qualifying)

And for the record. I am not a cop hater. when I started making masks 3 weeks ago, my first batch went to my local PD.

I simply feel very strongly that police should be held to the same standards as the rest of us when it comes to gun ownership and use, and that extra rights don't come from shiny badges and in some cases fancy faux-soldier costumes.
 

DarthRevan

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UPDATE FROM THE CLUB FB:

Evidently the Londonderry F&G Officer decided on his own, with no authority, to notify the Club and tell them a Cease and Desist order was coming to shut down the Club. The Club leadership energized their resources, including their members, to engage the town and find out WTF. The town quickly crab-walked and threw the F&G Officer under the bus ("He had no authority; this is misinformation, Please stop emailing," etc.) They consider it a win, and a closed situation.

One interesting side note: evidently there were some quislings who wanted to "go along" and close the club. The Club leadership posted this on their FB Page: "What did we learn today, People? Time to clean out the FUDD's"

I love this club; I have to look at joining.
I’m already on the wait list.
 

milktree

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“state COVID-19 website” said:
If I work outside and can socially distance, can I keep running my business even if it isn’t essential?

YES in some circumstances (see below).


Unfortunately, the “see below” part is a completely useless answer.

But the main answer, “yes” indicates the even if a private club were a business, and the members were “workers” (neither of which I believe are true) outside ranges could stay open.
 

Asaltweapon

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Unfortunately, the “see below” part is a completely useless answer.

But the main answer, “yes” indicates the even if a private club were a business, and the members were “workers” (neither of which I believe are true) outside ranges could stay open.
Total bullshit. The conservation lands are all open as are all the town trails and the Bruce Freeman Rail Trail is packed with people.
 

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They shoot at the academy. My buddies kid is, well he was in the current class. We took him to Harvard to teach him basics so that he would have a leg up on his classmates. His dad is very competitive when it comes to shooting.
Most of the academies in MA do NOT have their own ranges. They either have to ask another PD who has a range (few do) or bully a gun club to use their range. I went thru the police academy held at school building in Foxboro, later that academy moved to Taunton (Dever's School property), then Blue Hills Regional School and somewhere in there they were also in a Needham building. A very good friend was the director of those academy locations over those years.

Maybe they should learn to clean up like that all the time.

When cops use HSC they shoot crap up and leave a mess. Lets not even begin to talk about all the horrible muzzle discipline. (Well over half of these guys only shoot once per year - at qualifying)

And for the record. I am not a cop hater. when I started making masks 3 weeks ago, my first batch went to my local PD.

I simply feel very strongly that police should be held to the same standards as the rest of us when it comes to gun ownership and use, and that extra rights don't come from shiny badges and in some cases fancy faux-soldier costumes.
Back from when I started shooting (and reloading) in the mid-1970s, numerous police departments used the gun clubs and ALWAYS left a mess. As a police officer I saw lots of unsafe gun handling and rounds going over the berm (houses on the other side) during my years at qualification shoots.
 
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Lets see, so you join private club, pay your dues, only to be told by the 5-0 that you're barred from the private club that you belong to but thanks for paying your dues on time so that they can keep coming to the private club that the don't belong to and don't pay dues for.

How can anyone be okay with this?
 

Asaltweapon

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Folks, To all of you that have the Local Gestapo enforcing Unlawful Orders, When they come looking for a range to train or qualify on tell them to pound. That is of course that the club has the Balls to do it.
I spent a few terms on the BOG as well as co chair for the pistol range and will never, ever serve in such capacity again.
 

Asaltweapon

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I don't see how liability enters into it. There's no possible way to tie a viral infection to a source, it's not a contaminated site with a unique chemical - it's a virus. Could have gotten it anywhere.
Agreed. I was off the track thinking of injury or death.
It’s still a shitty policy that should be changed to closed is closed or better yet walked back to open and keep your distance and maintain cleanliness.
 

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Folks, To all of you that have the Local Gestapo enforcing Unlawful Orders, When they come looking for a range to train or qualify on tell them to pound. That is of course that the club has the Balls to do it.
I served on the board of one gun club for 14 yrs and another for a few months (temp-from resignation of prior BOD member to election) and can tell you that probably only a handful of MA clubs have the balls to tell the PDs to go elsewhere. It's truly sad but they worry too much about retribution for standing their ground. And none of the PDs pay a nickle to use the facilities.

I'm a new member at Londonderry F&G and it seems apparent that they don't stand for nonsense and challange anything they don't feel is right. They put the call out to light up the Email and phones of town officials and the officials immediately backed down with some BS story that it was all a hoax to cover their asses. I'm damn proud of this club!!
 

CatSnoutSoup

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I have no idea whether the City of Leominster had any influence on the closing of the outdoor ranges at LSA, it may have been just some internal risk-averse nervous-Nelly.

However to the best of my knowledge (and city assessor's records) the "Leominster Police Range" is on club property, so I hope it is closed as well, fair is fair right?


A hypothetical musing about how stuff like this can spin out of our control...

Clubs could consider outdoor meetings and while keeping safe distances discuss the Governor's edict, but then they would be violating the Governor's other edict banning gatherings larger than 25 people.

🐯
 
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