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Guide to gun rights in your Massachusetts town

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I have a renewal coming up. Fall River has changed their policy on renewals which only required you bring your body and a check they did the rest. Now they require your Safety Certificate, 2 references, and two letters of recommendation. Change the chief change the law. BS which is only going to get worse.
 
MuzzleDiscipline said:
I have a renewal coming up. Fall River has changed their policy on renewals which only required you bring your body and a check they did the rest. Now they require your Safety Certificate, 2 references, and two letters of recommendation. Change the chief change the law. BS which is only going to get worse.
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BS indeed. Is this for renewals or only 1st time?

I know where you can get one reference if you need it. [wave]
 
MuzzleDiscipline said:
well it is for first issue and renewals both. Thanks I might just need it.
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Any town that requires more than Filled out app, LTC, DL, and a check for a renewal is f***ing retarded.

I would report this to Comm2A, yeah sure, go ahead, go through the motions and you gotta, but someone eventually needs to get pissed off enough to
stop that shit. There are a lot of pure shit towns that wont even do that once you've been issued an LTC at least once.
 
drgrant said:
Any town that requires more than Filled out app, LTC, DL, and a check for a renewal is f***ing retarded.

I would report this to Comm2A, yeah sure, go ahead, go through the motions and you gotta, but someone eventually needs to get pissed off enough to
stop that shit. There are a lot of pure shit towns that wont even do that once you've been issued an LTC at least once.
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totally agree and the policy with the prior COP was bring in your DL and a check. 8 years ago the sitting COP required the application, two letters of recommendation, safety certificate and membership in a rod and gun club
 
drgrant said:
Any town that requires more than Filled out app, LTC, DL, and a check for a renewal is f***ing retarded.

I would report this to Comm2A, yeah sure, go ahead, go through the motions and you gotta, but someone eventually needs to get pissed off enough to
stop that shit. There are a lot of pure shit towns that wont even do that once you've been issued an LTC at least once.
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Agree, put down the license officer and first chief as references.
 
kalash said:
Why do you need a safety certificate for a renewal??
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Because douche town, and douche cleo is flexing.... this is a common douche town tactic to cut licensing numbers. Either because the cleo is anti or doesn’t like the massive waste of time/resources gun licensing is.
 
That unbelievably stupid. If you already have a license, clearly you've already taken the safety course! I don't even know if I still have my certificate but I suppose I could write myself one (if my instructor creds haven't expired yet). So, so dumb.
 
kalash said:
That unbelievably stupid. If you already have a license, clearly you've already taken the safety course! I don't even know if I still have my certificate but I suppose I could write myself one (if my instructor creds haven't expired yet). So, so dumb.
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Not necessarily. I've had a LTC since the mid-1970s and never took a course to get one. Subsequently, I've taken courses and become an instructor, however MGL passed in 1998 requiring a BFS course grandfathered those licensed on July 1, 1998 from that requirement.
dennyr said:
I think the safety certs expire. You'd have to retake the course to get a new one?
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No they don't per MGL.

Some chiefs just throw expensive roadblocks in the way of those wanting to be legally licensed. It cost thousands $$$ and years in court to fight these ridiculous local dictators and they know it, so it is easier and cheaper to just bend over and take it than to fight it.
 
FWIW and only my opinion but in the case of Fall River the police department is short handed and has been. Sometimes as many as three dozen officers short. They have limited resources for lots of things and since there is no down side to slow or no issue of LTC/FID it is an area that gets to take up slack. The website even spells out it will be a long process. They typically take 6 months plus to issue. they only issue unrestricted. The last two years they have been swamped with applications. Buried is more accurate. They are trying to lower the numbers and the law allows this tactic. If the city would hire more officers there are a lot of LEO services which would benefit. That would require raising taxes and spending what they have more effectively. This is Fall River. The police slogan is "We'll Try" and the city has taken the moniker "The Scholarship City". There are sadder places in Ma. but not many. ON the plus side they fill out the MIRCS online in front of you and give you a copy so you can carry until the renewal issued.
 
MuzzleDiscipline said:
FWIW and only my opinion but in the case of Fall River the police department is short handed and has been. Sometimes as many as three dozen officers short. They have limited resources for lots of things and since there is no down side to slow or no issue of LTC/FID it is an area that gets to take up slack. The website even spells out it will be a long process. They typically take 6 months plus to issue. they only issue unrestricted. The last two years they have been swamped with applications. Buried is more accurate. They are trying to lower the numbers and the law allows this tactic. If the city would hire more officers there are a lot of LEO services which would benefit. That would require raising taxes and spending what they have more effectively. This is Fall River. The police slogan is "We'll Try" and the city has taken the moniker "The Scholarship City". There are sadder places in Ma. but not many. ON the plus side they fill out the MIRCS online in front of you and give you a copy so you can carry until the renewal issued.
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Even before CV hit, my MA town was very slow at processing/issuing LTCs. If I hadn't intended to move out of state, I would have had a sit-down with my chief and offered to help in any way as a volunteer. I'm on very good terms with the leadership in my former department.

Now that I'm in NH, once the CV is over, I'm basically going to offer to volunteer at my new PD. I'm on very good terms with my chief here and met a few other officers before everything went into lockdown. They don't have a problem getting P/R Licenses issued here, so it won't be about firearms.
 
Len, that is a great idea. Not sure a lot of licensing officers would want to relinquish any of their power though. I suppose it's worth a try.
 
yanici said:
Len, that is a great idea. Not sure a lot of licensing officers would want to relinquish any of their power though. I suppose it's worth a try.
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The chief and deputy interview every applicant, even for renewals. The chief's secretary types the info into MIRCS. But they have to watch for reports back from FRB, DMH, MSP as part of the process and respond to some of them. That and the tiny window of time for interviews are the holdups in my MA town.
 
What do you think the actual amount of labor minutes/hours go into a average license ? (local police portion)
Of course I have never done the actual process of course so I may be wrong
Application dropped off, place in bin<1min
Look at application <1min
Type name in computer check driving record/criminal record <1min
Call person for "interview" <1min
Have person come to station for prints and "interview" 5 mins
Type application into computer to state 5 mins
Get envelope from state and mail to person <5 mins

Maybe 20 minutes total.
Say the licensing person works 400 minutes a day
20 applications a day x five days= 100 a week.
400 a month
4800 a year is possible ideally
Highest active LTC in a town outside Boston is 5,974 divided by 6 years = 995 a year
331 man hours to do 995.
7 hours of work a week to process the number two town in MA
 
CATI said:
What do you think the actual amount of labor minutes/hours go into a average license ? (local police portion)
Of course I have never done the actual process of course so I may be wrong
Application dropped off, place in bin<1min
Look at application <1min
Type name in computer check driving record/criminal record <1min
Call person for "interview" <1min
Have person come to station for prints and "interview" 5 mins
Type application into computer to state 5 mins
Get envelope from state and mail to person <5 mins

Maybe 20 minutes total.
Say the licensing person works 400 minutes a day
20 applications a day x five days= 100 a week.
400 a month
4800 a year is possible ideally
Highest active LTC in a town outside Boston is 5,974 divided by 6 years = 995 a year
331 man hours to do 995.
7 hours of work a week to process the number two town in MA
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I don't know the answer, but here's a few observations from the other side of the desk.

They take a lot longer than 1 minute to scrutinize your application.
They don't hire officers for their typing skills, most do hunt and peck even on a computer keyboard (1 finger typing), so not speedy.
Arranging a time/date and making a phone call takes longer than 1 minute.
Interviews typically take 15+ minutes, even on renewals.
Fingerprints are a one and done deal, but it means walking to the booking area from wherever the interview takes place within the station and perhaps calling another officer in to do the prints. I've never had a chief/deputy do my prints, it was always another officer (not LO), but YMMV.
I posted a flow chart of steps and stop points a few years ago and it is still mostly the same today. Look in my sub-forum for it.
They have to type up queries for DMH and perhaps others (I'm not checking my chart for this).
If the person lived in other cities/towns/states, they may make an inquiry with those PDs.
Any hits on the BOP need time to dig down to understand what happened and why. Sometimes they call arresting departments or courts for further detailed records, sometimes they have to request fiche copies from dead records (which may take weeks for them to obtain them), then interpret them.
It's never a full-time job. My MA town interviews applicants only 1 day/month for a few hours and this was pre-COVID. My last renewal, the interview date was 3 months from when I submitted the application and I retired from that department, and I wasn't given the MIRCS receipt either for 3 months.
 
I was at the PD in the office while a detective entered the data into mircs, took my fingerprints in that office, interviewed me in that office. Fall River does two days a week 8am to noon on a first come first serve basis. They are polite respectful and seem to be neutral to pro 2a. I was there for near 45 minutes but we hit it off and chatted a bit. I would say most first timers probably can expect to be there for 30 minutes. Yes hunt and peck is a time honored leo skill and employed here. Consider this the state mandates the locals do this task and gives them no assistance or much support. As I understand it the fee doesn't even go to cover the expense. From what little I know about the process it would seem to me that 4 hours of foot work after the MIRCS entry would be a reasonable average. That is two licenses a per working day for one officer. Fall River doesn't have that much manpower sitting around drinking coffee and eating donuts. That would be 250 LTc a year for a single officer.

Barring constitutional carry, the state should be doing all the LTC licensing on a shall issue basis once they can clear a criminal history background. No discretion if the applicant is clean the license issues. The cost should reflect the cost of administration and the renewal should be automatically run. Clean record issue license. OF course that is never going to happen here.
The federal background should be all that is needed for purchase and possession. Personally I don't believe that should be required. Prohibited persons found in possession should simply be convicted and locked up.
 
MuzzleDiscipline said:
I was at the PD in the office while a detective entered the data into mircs, took my fingerprints in that office, interviewed me in that office. Fall River does two days a week 8am to noon on a first come first serve basis. They are polite respectful and seem to be neutral to pro 2a. I was there for near 45 minutes but we hit it off and chatted a bit. I would say most first timers probably can expect to be there for 30 minutes. Yes hunt and peck is a time honored leo skill and employed here. Consider this the state mandates the locals do this task and gives them no assistance or much support. As I understand it the fee doesn't even go to cover the expense. From what little I know about the process it would seem to me that 4 hours of foot work after the MIRCS entry would be a reasonable average. That is two licenses a per working day for one officer. Fall River doesn't have that much manpower sitting around drinking coffee and eating donuts. That would be 250 LTc a year for a single officer.

Barring constitutional carry, the state should be doing all the LTC licensing on a shall issue basis once they can clear a criminal history background. No discretion if the applicant is clean the license issues. The cost should reflect the cost of administration and the renewal should be automatically run. Clean record issue license. OF course that is never going to happen here.
The federal background should be all that is needed for purchase and possession. Personally I don't believe that should be required. Prohibited persons found in possession should simply be convicted and locked up.
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What "foot work". I work on these systems, it's all computerized. They input the info and the computer kicks back answers. No one is looking through files or even talking to anyone. And the state does the statutory approve/deny the only decision the locals make is on suitability, and they don't need hours to do that.
 
Prints/picture/money, about 15 minutes.
Entering info. into a computer, if you know how to type, about 5 minutes. It may take longer depending on the competence and intelligence level of the data entry person. You may even be given some terrible legal advice or be told no gunshops are open during the pandemic, so there's no worry about your renewal receipt.
Some may check their town logs/databases to see if there has been any calls to your home or if you had a query done on you in the past for whatever to use as an excuse to restrict or deny.
The rest (MSP,FBI, DMH etc.), I'm not aware of how long it takes, but with modern technology, the whole process, IMO, can't take longer than a half hour inside the police station to start it going.
My Chief, depending on who you are or who you know, looks back into your personal file, at your letter that you may have been forced to write, again depending on who you are or who you know, to explain why you want to exercise a right, not a privilege, as part of the renewal process.
Each department has their own manpower issues, some have a legitimate excuse, most others don't!
 
Don't underestimate the time and skill required to do "simple" data entry correctly. A few renewals ago, I got my license, and I realized that my hair color was listed wrong. It was clear that the hair colors were on a menu, and the officer had clicked the one next to the correct color. The color selected was not even close to right. I considered what to do about this, and decided to live with it for six years.

At my next renewal, I told the licensing officer that I wanted to correct this issue, and without missing a beat, he said "Is that the only mistake? I'm trying to correct all of them." Apparently, he was not thrilled with his predecessor's work, and a fair number of licenses had mistakes that are more critical than hair color. After all, hair color is highly changeable.

So overall, I have concerns about saying all the data entry could be completed in 5 minutes. It is important to decide if you want it done fast, or you want it done right.
 
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