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Guide To Gun Rights in your MA Town - 2020 + Edition

Gloucester:
Dropped off application on 7/16
Received new LTC today (9/2).
Not bad.
 
What's the story with Boston these days?

A friend who had a "lifetime" FID applied for an LTC and FOUR MONTHS LATER they responded with, "you need to take the safety course again" (which isn't true, 'cuz he had an FID, but whatever) So he did, and reapplied. It's been three months and they still haven't responded. So, he hasn't had fingerprints or had his check cashed or an interview or anything.

Is this typical, or are they being extra foot-draggy with him?
 
milktree said:
What's the story with Boston these days?

A friend who had a "lifetime" FID applied for an LTC and FOUR MONTHS LATER they responded with, "you need to take the safety course again" (which isn't true, 'cuz he had an FID, but whatever) So he did, and reapplied. It's been three months and they still haven't responded. So, he hasn't had fingerprints or had his check cashed or an interview or anything.

Is this typical, or are they being extra foot-draggy with him?
Click to expand...
Its the law. If you didn’t have an LTC in 1998, you need to take the class.

I also had lifetime FID and then class for LTC, became instructor to teach class, then let it all expire and now starting over
 
milktree said:
What's the story with Boston these days?

A friend who had a "lifetime" FID applied for an LTC and FOUR MONTHS LATER they responded with, "you need to take the safety course again" (which isn't true, 'cuz he had an FID, but whatever) So he did, and reapplied. It's been three months and they still haven't responded. So, he hasn't had fingerprints or had his check cashed or an interview or anything.

Is this typical, or are they being extra foot-draggy with him?
Click to expand...
... also not Boston, its all of Mass and many other states too
 
Michael123 said:
Its the law. If you didn’t have an LTC in 1998, you need to take the class.

I also had lifetime FID and then class for LTC, became instructor to teach class, then let it all expire and now starting over
Click to expand...

Chap. 140 § 131 (a) Any person making application for the issuance of a firearms identification card under section 129B, a Class A or Class B license to carry firearms under section 131 or 131F or a permit to purchase under section 131A who was not licensed under the provisions of this chapter on June 1, 1998 shall, in addition to the requirements set forth in said section 129B, 131, 131A or 131F, submit to the licensing authority a basic firearms safety certificate; …
Click to expand...

Since FIDs are also in chapter 140, why doesn’t this mean FID holders are exempt from taking a safety course?
 
my point is that it is common that licensing authorities require a safety certificate, its not a Boston requirement.. its a law of the Commonwealth and its is required in all of Massachusetts.. many other states have the same law. Most states will accept an NRA certificate, Massachusetts requires a course that is approved by the State police and the instructor also has to be state certified, Utah is the same and requires a Utah specific course.

If the applicant was not a LTC holder prior to 1998, a class is required. Its only a 100-150.00 and it goes by quick, worst case you learn something new.
 
milktree said:
Since FIDs are also in chapter 140, why doesn’t this mean FID holders are exempt from taking a safety
Click to expand...
If the applicant had an FID on June 1 and expired, he can renew his FID without a certificate.

if the applicant has an LTC on June 1, he can renew without a certificate.

If the applicant never had an FID, and is applying for FID the applicant will be required to submit a certificate for FID card/ Hunter safety/ LTC certificate.

if applicant never had an LTC, the applicant is now applying for an LTC, the applicant will now be required to submit a certificate for an LTC

LTC certificate is valid for both LTC and FID

FID certificate is only valid for FID

the presumption is that the a former FID holder has knowledge of safe handling and laws regarding long guns and that he has no experience or knowledge of the law with a handgun
 
milktree said:
What's the story with Boston these days?

A friend who had a "lifetime" FID applied for an LTC and FOUR MONTHS LATER they responded with, "you need to take the safety course again" (which isn't true, 'cuz he had an FID, but whatever) So he did, and reapplied. It's been three months and they still haven't responded. So, he hasn't had fingerprints or had his check cashed or an interview or anything.

Is this typical, or are they being extra foot-draggy with him?
Click to expand...
Its very typical of Boston. I was talking to someone in a gun shop, He told me he waited for a year and a half, from start to finish
 
Michael123 said:
If the applicant had an FID on June 1 and expired, he can renew his FID without a certificate.

if the applicant has an LTC on June 1, he can renew without a certificate.

If the applicant never had an FID, and is applying for FID the applicant will be required to submit a certificate for FID card/ Hunter safety/ LTC certificate.

if applicant never had an LTC, the applicant is now applying for an LTC, the applicant will now be required to submit a certificate for an LTC

LTC certificate is valid for both LTC and FID

FID certificate is only valid for FID

the presumption is that the a former FID holder has knowledge of safe handling and laws regarding long guns and that he has no experience or knowledge of the law with a handgun
Click to expand...

The actual law doesn’t distinguish between having an LTC or an FID on June 1, 1998.

It says, “licensed under this chapter”. Both LTCs and FIDs are regulated under C. 140.

Yes, I know it’s easier to just take a course and lots of towns require it anyway. That doesn’t change the actual law.

Your presumptions are reasonable, but not what the law says.
 
milktree said:
The actual law doesn’t distinguish between having an LTC or an FID on June 1, 1998.

It says, “licensed under this chapter”. Both LTCs and FIDs are regulated under C. 140.

Yes, I know it’s easier to just take a course and lots of towns require it anyway. That doesn’t change the actual law.

Your presumptions are reasonable, but not what the law says.
Click to expand...
There are two different certificates for a reason.
 
milktree said:
The actual law doesn’t distinguish between having an LTC or an FID on June 1, 1998.

It says, “licensed under this chapter”. Both LTCs and FIDs are regulated under C. 140.

Yes, I know it’s easier to just take a course and lots of towns require it anyway. That doesn’t change the actual law.

Your presumptions are reasonable, but not what the law says.
Click to expand...
This may help your cause.. I doubt it will change anything but good luck.

 
Michael123 said:
There are two different certificates for a reason.
Click to expand...

The fact that different certificates exist NOW is irrelevant.

Go read the actual law:

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 131P

I'll quote the relevant bit for you: (emphasis mine)

MGL C. 140 §131p(a) said:
(a) Any person making application for the issuance of a firearms identification card under section 129B, a license to carry firearms under section 131 or 131F or a permit to purchase under section 131A who was not licensed under the provisions of this chapter on June 1, 1998 shall, in addition to the requirements set forth in said section 129B, 131, 131A or 131F, submit to the licensing authority a basic firearms safety certificate;...
Click to expand...

"This chapter" means "Chapter 140", which includes both FID and LTC licensing.

I'll be more explicit: Anyone who had an LTC or FID on or before June 1, 1998 was licensed under Chapter 140. The fact that LTCs and FIDs were regulated under different sections doesn't change the fact that both were under the same chapter 140.

Therefore: Anyone who had an FID or LTC on June 1, 1998, was licensed under chapter 140, and is not required to get a new safety certificate.

The fact that the towns don't recognize that DOES NOT CHANGE THE LAW.


Michael123 said:
This may help your cause.. I doubt it will change anything but good luck.

Click to expand...

How is that relevant? That appears to be about instructors and courses, not the requirements of applicants.

My friend has already jumped through the extra hoop of getting a new safety certificate, so that part is moot.
 
milktree said:
The fact that different certificates exist NOW is irrelevant.

Go read the actual law:

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 131P

I'll quote the relevant bit for you: (emphasis mine)



"This chapter" means "Chapter 140", which includes both FID and LTC licensing.

I'll be more explicit: Anyone who had an LTC or FID on or before June 1, 1998 was licensed under Chapter 140. The fact that LTCs and FIDs were regulated under different sections doesn't change the fact that both were under the same chapter 140.

Therefore: Anyone who had an FID or LTC on June 1, 1998, was licensed under chapter 140, and is not required to get a new safety certificate.

The fact that the towns don't recognize that DOES NOT CHANGE THE LAW.




How is that relevant? That appears to be about instructors and courses, not the requirements of applicants.

My friend has already jumped through the extra hoop of getting a new safety certificate, so that part is moot.
Click to expand...
I was looking to help your “friend” with my previous link.. if you had read it, you would have seen the relevancy with this:




Applicability.
(a) Any person lawfully licensed with a FID card on June 1, 1998 shall not be required to complete the statutorily required BFS course or submit a BFS certificate for:
1. subsequent FID card renewals; or
2. subsequent LTC licensure and renewals.


but since your “friend” has already gotten the certificate, this whole conversation is moot.
 
Last edited:
Michael123 said:
I was looking to help your “friend” with my previous link.. if you had read it, you would have seen the relevancy with this:


Applicability.
(a) Any person lawfully licensed with a FID card on June 1, 1998 shall not be required to complete the statutorily required BFS course or submit a BFS certificate for:
1. subsequent FID card renewals; or
2. subsequent LTC licensure and renewals.
Click to expand...

Ah! I didn't see that part. Thank you.

Why did you put "friend" in quotes? Do you think he's imaginary?
 
Its just the way it is, right, wrong or illegal.

Some authorities want 2-3 letters of reference, I have heard others want the applicant to submit to physiological testing and have a letter from a mental health doctor stating the applicant is ailment free.

Massachusetts is not the most gun friendly state. Unfortunately, there are 4 choices.. dont get a license, jump through the hoops, hire legal representation or move.

here is another for you.
Should the applicant be licensed in Boston and move to another town before the LTC expires.. the person will need to notify Boston PD, the new location’s PD and the CHSB all by certified mail. When the LTC expires and the person renews in the new city/town.. he will have to submit a safety certificate to that PD also as they wont have one on file. Should the original certificate be over 5 years old, a new certificate will be required, thus another course. If the LTC holder doesn’t move, the original certificate on file will remain in effect.

i was licensed at 18 with a “lifetime” FID, I got my LTC before the safety certificates were required.. when I renewed, Boston made me get a certificate anyway.. I did. When I moved to the north shore, new certificate. Now that I expired 9 years ago and Im now going to start over in another town.. guess what I need... a new certificate. I was licensed in Mass, NH, Maine and FLA and I was also a certified instructor.. none of it matters that I was authorized to teach the class, Im now a student again.

Make sense, not at all.
 
Michael123 said:
Its just the way it is, right, wrong or illegal.

Some authorities want 2-3 letters of reference, I have heard others want the applicant to submit to physiological testing and have a letter from a mental health doctor stating the applicant is ailment free.

Massachusetts is not the most gun friendly state. Unfortunately, there are 4 choices.. dont get a license, jump through the hoops, hire legal representation or move.

here is another for you.
Should the applicant be licensed in Boston and move to another town before the LTC expires.. the person will need to notify Boston PD, the new location’s PD and the CHSB all by certified mail. When the LTC expires and the person renews in the new city/town.. he will have to submit a safety certificate to that PD also as they wont have one on file. Should the original certificate be over 5 years old, a new certificate will be required, thus another course. If the LTC holder doesn’t move, the original certificate on file will remain in effect.

i was licensed at 18 with a “lifetime” FID, I got my LTC before the safety certificates were required.. when I renewed, Boston made me get a certificate anyway.. I did. When I moved to the north shore, new certificate. Now that I expired 9 years ago and Im now going to start over in another town.. guess what I need... a new certificate. I was licensed in Mass, NH, Maine and FLA and I was also a certified instructor.. none of it matters that I was authorized to teach the class, Im now a student again.

Make sense, not at all.
Click to expand...
How nicely compliant of you.
 
Michael123 said:
Should the applicant be licensed in Boston and move to another town ... When the LTC expires and the person renews in the new city/town.. he will have to submit a safety certificate to that PD also as they wont have one on file. Should the original certificate be over 5 years old, a new certificate will be required, ...
Click to expand...
Cite?
 
Michael123 said:
Next time I should hire a lawyer or just take the class? Which is the path of least resistance and less costly?
Click to expand...
Which is the path to liberty and which is the path to slavery?
When they mandate that you turn in all your guns, the easy path will be to comply.
I lost my battle in MA, after paying out a lot of $$$, but I still refused to just accept it. I left my house, my friends, my family, my life, and took a 30% cut in pay to move to NH. And I don't regret it. I'm still getting used to not paying state income tax or having the Gov. involved in my life every minute, you don't realize it's there until it's gone. And I can buy any gun I want, and those 2 new suppressors are going to look cool on my SBRs. Enjoy you oppression, it's not going away as long as most do what you do and comply.
 
42! said:
Which is the path to liberty and which is the path to slavery?
When they mandate that you turn in all your guns, the easy path will be to comply.
I lost my battle in MA, after paying out a lot of $$$, but I still refused to just accept it. I left my house, my friends, my family, my life, and took a 30% cut in pay to move to NH. And I don't regret it. I'm still getting used to not paying state income tax or having the Gov. involved in my life every minute, you don't realize it's there until it's gone. And I can buy any gun I want, and those 2 new suppressors are going to look cool on my SBRs. Enjoy you oppression, it's not going away as long as most do what you do and comply.
Click to expand...
Yea, whatever. Where I sit now, My kids get free college to a top 10 college... Im not going to give that up so I can move to NH, Id rather take a 100.00 class if I move again. 80,000 per year, per kid or 100.00 IF I move again... Ill pay the sales tax and the 100.00. Does NH charge you tax on your tin foil hat?
 
AHM said:
In other words, your personal experience has no bearing
on the process in 351 other jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
That was a dig, there is no such requirement.

The *other* 351? So how many are there? I know of 351 Cities and towns and 353 licensing authorities.
 
Michael123 said:
Yea, whatever. Where I sit now, My kids get free college to a top 10 college... Im not going to give that up so I can move to NH, Id rather take a 100.00 class if I move again. 80,000 per year, per kid or 100.00 IF I move again... Ill pay the sales tax and the 100.00. Does NH charge you tax on your tin foil hat?
Click to expand...
I love it when someone says they get something "free" from the government, tells me they don't understand how it works.
No doubt the numbers work for you, different people place different values on government abuse, because we are talking abuse, not following the law. The law says no training requirement. The abuse is requiring that and having other additional conditions.
 

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