Granted NH PRL but denied purchase

[Renuzit]

I recently moved from MA to NH. After moving to NH I applied for a resident PRL and after meeting with the Chief of Police I was approved for the permit. I had to meet with the Chief due to my previous record in MA. I was obviously aware that I had a record but it was from about 15 years ago and I was young and dumb and didn't recall the details of the dispositions.

After receiving the permit I thought I was good to go. A couple days later I attempted to purchase a handgun at and FFL and was denied after the background check. I only received a number to call the NH State Police and a reference number. I received a call back and voicemail with a list of things that denials are based on but have not received my denial letter yet.

Since then I decided to pull my CORI and I have 2 misdemeanor convictions from approximately 15 years ago. Both would preclude me in MA. I assume this is why I was denied. Would this also cause me issues as a PP and render my NH PRL useless?

Any advice would be appreciated. Once I receive the details from NH on the denial I would probably look to see what I could do to get past this so any recommendations for attorneys would be appreciated.

 

[M1911]

Go to the courts where you were convicted. Get copies of the case dispositions. Presuming that you were convicted in MA, I would then contact Jason Guida.

 

[Renuzit]

Thank you for the recommendation! I will reach out to Jason Guida as well.

Was the issuance of the PRL an oversight? Although I don't know how as the PD had my records.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

Was the issuance of the PRL an oversight? Although I don't know how as the PD had my records.

Probably not. I'd leave the chief out of it at this point and just focus on dealing with the lawyer and the courts. No need to spook the chief into rescinding (somehow) your P&R. This legal work will cost you some time and money, but it needs to be done. Maybe if it gets squared away, you should try to get a UPIN. Others can advise.

Also, although it should not matter, in NH people are sticklers for the P&R being referred to as a license rather than a "permit." This is probably because the nomenclature in the statue is "license."

 

[ISOTOX]

Not sounding like a free state now is it?

 

[warwickben]

Not sounding like a free state now is it?

He was denied by the Feds ...

 

[Golddiggie]

He was denied by the Feds ...

Wrong... Pistol purchase background checks, in NH, are run through the state police... NOT the feds.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Since then I decided to pull my CORI and I have 2 misdemeanor convictions from approximately 15 years ago. Both would preclude me in MA. I assume this is why I was denied. Would this also cause me issues as a PP and render my NH PRL useless?

MA has the concept informally known as a "misdafelony' - a misdemeanor with a maximum possible sentence of 2.5 years, which is considered a felony for the purpose of 18 USC 922 g. There is a good chance this is what you ran into.

Your NH PRL would protect you from state, but not federal, prosecution if this is indeed the case.

 

[warwickben]

Wrong... Pistol purchase background checks, in NH, are run through the state police... NOT the feds.

Ok . But don't they follow the same rules as the Feds ?

 

[Renuzit]

Probably not. I'd leave the chief out of it at this point and just focus on dealing with the lawyer and the courts. No need to spook the chief into rescinding (somehow) your P&R. This legal work will cost you some time and money, but it needs to be done. Maybe if it gets squared away, you should try to get a UPIN. Others can advise.

Also, although it should not matter, in NH people are sticklers for the P&R being referred to as a license rather than a "permit." This is probably because the nomenclature in the statue is "license."

Thank you for the info on the nomenclature. I will stop using permit.

I do not intend on speaking with the Chief at this time and have placed a call to attorney Guida (out of the office but I will follow up with an email).

I guess my major concern for the moment is that, based on a layman's understanding of NH law, I've completed the necessary steps for me to legally own, carry and conceal carry a firearm in the state of NH. It wasn't until I was denied a purchase that I began to read more into the law and realize I may be bumping up against Federal law.

Is my case similar to MA resident being issued an FID card but not legally able to possess or own a firearm? I thought I took the proper steps.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Not sounding like a free state now is it?

Sick burn, bruh.

- - - Updated - - -

If you have a PRL, just buy what you want face to face in the mean time.

 

[Renuzit]

MA has the concept informally known as a "misdafelony' - a misdemeanor with a maximum possible sentence of 2.5 years, which is considered a felony for the purpose of 18 USC 922 g. There is a good chance this is what you ran into.

Your NH PRL would protect you from state, but not federal, prosecution if this is indeed the case.

I believe so as the woman who left a voicemail from the State Police Licensing indicated they follow MA disqualifiers as well. At least one of the two is MA disqualifier (I think both).

Thank you for your comment on Federal issues. That's the answer I was assuming but wanted to be sure.

 

[Next Level]

When NH does a background check they conduct the NICS check AND a state check (to check for RO's and other disqualification legal events within the state that may not pop on the Fed level)
Something popped on the Fed level and as others have pointed out, it's probably a MA misdafelony.
Were you convicted or CWOF'ed?
If you prefer you can PM me. I can offer you some insight into the systems at play here.
If the state of NH followed the MA disqualification standards I do not think the chief would have issued you your concealed carry license (PRL)
As others have also said, do not drag the chief into it. Do the federal requested paperwork to resolve this.
As I said you can PM me if you prefer.
Good Luck,
Brian

 

[usp45ct]

I might have missed it but did you ever buy a handgun in Ma and if so, was there any problems?

seems to me if you bought a pistola in Ma without an issue, and you are having issues in NH...it would be an NH thing.

 

[M1911]

Sick burn, bruh. - - - Updated - - - If you have a PRL, just buy what you want face to face in the mean time.

There is a chance that he is federally prohibited. I would want to ensure that is not the case before purchasing anything.

 

[drgrant]

Wrong... Pistol purchase background checks, in NH, are run through the state police... NOT the feds.

Same thing though, NH NICS POC uses access to the same shit the feds use, so one is proxy for the other. Of course because of the faggy way NICS runs, the specific denial reason is never disclosed to the appellant directly, which is ****ed.

My guess is the OP has some case that's not marked correctly, or there's a false positive in NICS. Or less likely, he has some misdefelony or some lautenberg poo on his record (misdemeanor DV, or an open DV RO that was never closed, etc. )

-Mike

 

[Renuzit]

I might have missed it but did you ever buy a handgun in Ma and if so, was there any problems?

seems to me if you bought a pistola in Ma without an issue, and you are having issues in NH...it would be an NH thing.

Never purchased a firearm and never attempted to get an FID card or LTC. I was aware of my background and grew up with a MA state of mind and that it would be difficult to get anyway.

There is a chance that he is federally prohibited. I would want to ensure that is not the case before purchasing anything.

That is my concern. I never really researched all of the intricacies of the laws and assumed once I applied for the PRL in NH I would either be good to go or get denied. I thought I was good to go until I was denied the purchase and started doing more research (also how I found this board).


Unfortunately I have not yet received the official denial letter with the stated reason. But, I'm aware that technically with the PRL I can purchase FTF, conceal carry, etc. in NH but wanted to get some input on the legalities before I actually follow through. I've read about the FID issue in MA for PP and don't want to risk running afoul of something like that in NH/Fed.

 

[drgrant]

Never purchased a firearm and never attempted to get an FID card or LTC. I was aware of my background and grew up with a MA state of mind and that it would be difficult to get anyway.



That is my concern. I never really researched all of the intricacies of the laws and assumed once I applied for the PRL in NH I would either be good to go or get denied. I thought I was good to go until I was denied the purchase and started doing more research (also how I found this board).


Unfortunately I have not yet received the official denial letter with the stated reason. But, I'm aware that technically with the PRL I can purchase FTF, conceal carry, etc. in NH but wanted to get some input on the legalities before I actually follow through. I've read about the FID issue in MA for PP and don't want to risk running afoul of something like that in NH/Fed.

If you get the disposition copies from the courts where your cases were held it might help you figure it out. Of course this could also be a false positive, too. (id mixed with someone else's BS, or some jerk stole your identity... it happens. )

-Mike

 

[MikeRizz]

Wrong... Pistol purchase background checks, in NH, are run through the state police... NOT the feds.

And who do you think the state police call / check with? The feds...

 

[Renuzit]

If you get the disposition copies from the courts where your cases were held it might help you figure it out. Of course this could also be a false positive, too. (id mixed with someone else's BS, or some jerk stole your identity... it happens. )

-Mike

At this point I'm pretty sure it was the two misdemeanor convictions that are MA misdafelonies. I know that I was convicted of the two misdemeanors but I've always heard it's felony convictions that get you (even from LEO friends). I just wasn't expecting the misdemeanors to cause issues after I was granted a PRL in NH.

To a regular schmoe like myself, I thought I went about it the proper and legal way.

 

[JAD]

What were the misdemeanor charges that you were convicted of?

 

[DispositionMatrix]

Your NH PRL would protect you from state, but not federal, prosecution if this is indeed the case.

Federal prosecution for what? Possessing a firearm? No. Carrying a firearm concealed? Not applicable since concealed carry licensing is at the state level.

 

[noxin]

Federal prosecution for what? Possessing a firearm? No. Carrying a firearm concealed? Not applicable since concealed carry licensing is at the state level.

If he's federally a prohibited person, he can't touch a firearm.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[M1911]

Federal prosecution for what? Possessing a firearm? No. Carrying a firearm concealed? Not applicable since concealed carry licensing is at the state level.

If he is a federally prohibited person, he could be prosecuted for purchasing or possessing a firearm or ammunition. It is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in federal prison.

 

[Chet0729]

There is a way to get those infractions from previous years expunged. A friend of mine just did it. he was having issues getting a job and he asked one of the potential employers why and they told him to look at his Cori. I don't know the process but he said it was simple. It just took a little while. he had over a dozen minor teenager type crap eliminated from his record.
he just got his LTC in MA

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Federal prosecution for what? Possessing a firearm? No. Carrying a firearm concealed? Not applicable since concealed carry licensing is at the state level.

The federal offense of felon in possession of a firearm or ammo. (felon under the definition contained in the preamble to 18 USC 922(g))

 

[42!]

There is a way to get those infractions from previous years expunged. A friend of mine just did it. he was having issues getting a job and he asked one of the potential employers why and they told him to look at his Cori. I don't know the process but he said it was simple. It just took a little while. he had over a dozen minor teenager type crap eliminated from his record.
he just got his LTC in MA

MA has no expungement [sic]. All we have in MA is a Petition to Seal and that does not block LE and does not allow you to answer NO on any question asking if you have a conviction. I know this well, yesterday my petition to seal a cwof was granted, they say it will take two week for it to work its way through the system (same reason, employment). Pretty simple process. There are forms on-line, about 6 weeks to get a hearing, an hour waiting in the courtroom, 5 minutes in front of the judge, and it's done YMMV

 

[Rob Boudrie]

MA has no expungement [sic]. All we have in MA is a Petition to Seal and that does not block LE and does not allow you to answer NO on any question asking if you have a conviction. I know this well, yesterday my petition to seal a cwof was granted, they say it will take two week for it to work its way through the system (same reason, employment). Pretty simple process. There are forms on-line, about 6 weeks to get a hearing, an hour waiting in the courtroom, 5 minutes in front of the judge, and it's done YMMV

A sealing under MGL Chapter 94C section 44 allows a "no" answer, but good luck explaining that to the licensing officer.

No person as to whom such sealing has been ordered shall be held thereafter under any provision of any law to be guilty of perjury or otherwise making a false statement by reason of his failure to recite or acknowledge such arrest, indictment, disposition, sealing or any other related court proceeding, in response to any inquiry made of him for any purpose.

 

[Chet0729]

MA has no expungement [sic]. All we have in MA is a Petition to Seal and that does not block LE and does not allow you to answer NO on any question asking if you have a conviction. I know this well, yesterday my petition to seal a cwof was granted, they say it will take two week for it to work its way through the system (same reason, employment). Pretty simple process. There are forms on-line, about 6 weeks to get a hearing, an hour waiting in the courtroom, 5 minutes in front of the judge, and it's done YMMV

His records were not sealed, they were expunged

 

[Rob Boudrie]

His records were not sealed, they were expunged

That does not change the fact that he was convicted and, in the eyes of a MA licensing officer, failure to disclose this would constitute a lie on the LTC application.

On the topic of federal prohibition -

The federal law is clear, and the courts strict, on this issue. There have been cases of persons getting multi-year federal prison sentences just for renting a gun at a commercial range (not even attempting to buy the gun or take it from the range). The norm in federal cases is a no-parole sentence* using the federal sentencing guidelines, and unlike MA courts, the concept of "no real harm done, we'll give you a CWOF to preserve the ADAs track record and keep you out of stir" does not exist.

* - 15% off allowed if you are a good prisoner, which is probably why you read of may federal sentences that are an odd number on months but work out to something nice and even when you multiply by .85.