Got back from Four Seasons

[ignium]

Went to Four Seasons today with the intent of getting a new 1911. One of the sales reps (who's name I didn't get) was a tremendous help and was more than gracious with his time. However, as I'm sure others have experienced, I became toy struck. I forgot that the M&P 40 was for sale in MA and that's what I left with. After I go to the range, which should be soon, I'll give my impressions and I'm sure I will not be disappointed. Again I want to thank Carl and the others at Four Seasons. They by far are some of the most professional and courteous people to work with.

~ignium

 

[Admin]

Nice!

 

[Pilgrim]

you bought a hunka plastic over old slab sides..the most revered and most copied gun of all times?

Play Gomer Pyle voice here: For shame, for shame, for shame !

You must be a youngster. As you age, you will gain wisdom.

 

[Chris]

Wow. That's a real switcheroo.

Kind of like going to buy a Mustang and coming home with a Dodge Pickup.

Nothing against an M&P (lord knows I like 'em) but they sure ain't a 1911.

Just curious what made you change your mind.

And congrats. Should be a nice piece for ya.

 

[ignium]

Wow. That's a real switcheroo.

Kind of like going to buy a Mustang and coming home with a Dodge Pickup.

Nothing against an M&P (lord knows I like 'em) but they sure ain't a 1911.

Just curious what made you change your mind.

And congrats. Should be a nice piece for ya.

It really came down to the price. Trust me I saw some really nice 1911's but I wasn't able to squeeze my money to tight just yet. Plus Christmas is around the corner and God knows you can't have enough toys.

 

[Garys]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but here goes. Is it the 1911 or the .45 caliber that's the great defensive item? Or is it the combo? The reason I ask is that I see a lot of very expensive 1911s out there and they all seem to have a lot of custom parts. It seems that people have to pay a lot of money to get a 1911 that is reliable for self defense.

What does it have that say a Ruger P345 doesn't have for a lot less money?

Derek or a moderator may want to move this to it's own thread depending on how it goes.

"Can open, worms everywhere".

Gary

 

[ignium]

Whenever I read articles about the 1911 it seems to come down to the fact that it’s a proven design. This is what attracted me to a 1911 in the first place. However the price is a factor. Because of the price I was hoping that the Taurus 1911 would be for sale in MA but it isn’t and from what I’ve read about it it’s a great 1911. I believe it starts at around $400 - $500. However I will be victorious and get a 1911 in the future. Damn you financial responsibilities!

 

[squarooticus]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but here goes. Is it the 1911 or the .45 caliber that's the great defensive item?

Both.

I like the ballistics of the .45. From what I've read, it has comparatively good stopping power... but isn't brutal on the hands like .357 magnum (and of course it's made for autoloaders, not revolvers).

Perhaps more importantly for me, however, is that I like the 1911 platform: it's very easy to understand; it's very natural to shoot; it can be detail stripped in about 90 seconds; it's thin and therefore easy to conceal; there are a million different holsters available for it; you can work on it yourself once you understand exactly how the action works; and parts are easy to come by and are available in all ranges of material, appearance/color, and quality. There simply isn't a better platform for custom handgun building.

There are definite drawbacks to the design. If I were going to make my own frames and barrels, I'd probably create a hybrid Hi-Power/1911 design with a lug/cam instead of a link for the barrel. Short-barreled models tend to have FTE's. Even the lightest full-size models are comparatively heavy (28oz empty). But I think these are minor complaints next to the positive versatility of the platform.

Kyle

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It is well known that God carries a 1911 and that John Browning does her trigger jobs.

I would say that "detail stripping in 90 seconds" is doable, but it would probably take a bit longer than that to put it together. What is winderful about the breakdown is that there are a huge number of aftermarket part manufacturers, so you're not stuck going to the one and only vendor who can get you a part - and, in some cases, run into "We don't sell that part separately" as is often the case with proprietary designs.

S&W gives great service and makes good stuff, however, they have numerous "restricted" parts that are simply not available for sale. I have heard this because some parts need to be specifically fitted to the gun, and that S&W prefers not to let the customer do this sort of thing. This can cause frustration for competiton shooters who are used to carrying around a box of spare parts for their gear.

 

[Coyote33]

Whenever I read articles about the 1911 it seems to come down to the fact that it’s a proven design. This is what attracted me to a 1911 in the first place. However the price is a factor. Because of the price I was hoping that the Taurus 1911 would be for sale in MA but it isn’t and from what I’ve read about it it’s a great 1911. I believe it starts at around $400 - $500. However I will be victorious and get a 1911 in the future. Damn you financial responsibilities!

Don't forget the Taurus 24/7 or Millenium or whatever it is called now.

Also, what about the Brazilian 1911 called the Sistema or something like that? Isn't that just as much a 1911 and less expensive and maybe even a C&R?

From what I've read, the 1911's start out from scratch loose and reliable, then are souped up so the tolerances get very tight. Then they need to get tweaked to overcome the tight tolerances to become reliable once again. Each step of the way away from the original 1911 costs more money. Please let me know if this is wrong.

 

[Bugs100]

I see a lot of very expensive 1911s out there and they all seem to have a lot of custom parts. It seems that people have to pay a lot of money to get a 1911 that is reliable for self defense.

You should be able to buy a new 1911 from any well known company and be able to carry it right out of the box.

1911's are easy to work on and parts are easily obtained. They fuel a guy's desire to tinker and to change a gun into some thing that suites his personal choices.

I recently talked to a guy at the range that couldn't wait to show every one his rebuild of a new 1911. As he stated their was nothing the matter with it when he started but the parts were so cheap he couldn't resist.

I'm just the opposite I started carrying a 1911 in 1967 and have never had any custon work done and have always been happy with all of them.

 

[Chris]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but here goes.

Not on this board. One of the best things is that we tolerate questions. Sure, we might ask you to search if it's a really common one, but most times every question is given a respectful reply.

Is it the 1911 or the .45 caliber that's the great defensive item? Or is it the combo?

In my opinion, it is the cartridge that is the winner, and the delivery system that was built for it was and is top notch. It can be made loose and designed for hard core military, or tight and precise for high end competition. But in the end, its a tool that for almost 100 years has proven itself again and again in all types of situations.

The reason I ask is that I see a lot of very expensive 1911s out there and they all seem to have a lot of custom parts. It seems that people have to pay a lot of money to get a 1911 that is reliable for self defense.

Nope. People WANT to pay.... A Small Block Chevy motor is loved not only because it works well out of the crate, but because you can tweak it to do everything from truck applications to running quarter miles. Same with the 1911. The basic gun is great, your specific needs can be well suited with modifications.

What does it have that say a Ruger P345 doesn't have for a lot less money?

A cult following? Seriously, it is because it is so popular (and that the patent is long expired) that anyone can make parts and design changes. Your Ruger either doesn't have that flexibility or market to support the endeavor.

The other thing is that the 1911 design is damn simple.

 

[Twigg]

$0.02

My own observations:

I owned a Glock 22 for awhile. It kinda fit my hand ok, and I didn't like the feel of the trigger, it seemed long and creepy. Recoil was a bit snappy but not a big issue. The caliber was a compromise, trading effectivness for capacity.

What I liked was the ability to have 15+1 rounds and if I carried a spare mag that made 31 rounds. I was happy with it.

Then my wife bought herself a S&W 1911PD.

Turns out I could shoot her 1911 a hell of a lot better than I could shoot my Glock.

Now I carry a S&W 1911Sc although I'd like to get the same model my wife carries eventually. The grips almost fit my hand but with the increased availability of accessories I found a great set of wraparound grips and the fit is fantastic.

The ergonomics are superior, the tirgger is infinitly better and I have much better control of the pistol. Field stripping & cleanup is a snap, I can shoot unjacketed lead rounds indoors in winter, (Only kind my club allows.) End result: better accuracy, easier to strip & clean, more versitile...

Tastes great and it's less filling.

 

[TonyDedo]

I have argued and will continue to argue that with modern firearms, it may be true that one gun is superior to another in various aspects (reliability, accuracy, stopping power, etc), but only marginally so. With few exceptions, any modern firearm and cartridge built for defensive purposes will be effective - the only variable is the user.

For myself, the 1911 is the most natural feeling firearm in my hand (my XD has become a close 2nd). I like the trigger, I like the way the gun feels when it fires, I'm comfortable with the features. I like the way a .45ACP cartridge feels when it discharges. Therefore, the 1911 is the best choice for me.

My girlfriend prefers the Beretta 92FS. She feels the same way about the Beretta and the 9mm cartridge as I feel about the 1911 and the .45ACP. This motivates her to shoot more often, she becomes more skilled with the gun, and therefore becomes more effective with the gun.

I know some people will argue this point, but if fired accurately, a quality 9mm JHP round is just as effective as a similar .45ACP round. The question is, can you fire both with equal accuracy. Personally, I hate shooting 9mm (I make an exception for full auto, of course). I don't like the way it feels coming out of the barrel, I don't like the way it sounds, I don't even like the way it SMELLS. For me, firing a .45ACP round is like [insert simile of pleasurable male biological activity].

So point being, pick a gun and fire about 500 rounds. Pick another and fire another 500 rounds. Guns retain their resale value fairly well. Repeat as necessary, until you have a gun that you dream about shooting. That's is the most best gun for you.

But unless it's a Colt 1911A1, it's not THE best gun.

 

[jim42]

Went to Four Seasons today with the intent of getting a new 1911. One of the sales reps (who's name I didn't get) was a tremendous help and was more than gracious with his time. However, as I'm sure others have experienced, I became toy struck. I forgot that the M&P 40 was for sale in MA and that's what I left with. After I go to the range, which should be soon, I'll give my impressions and I'm sure I will not be disappointed. Again I want to thank Carl and the others at Four Seasons. They by far are some of the most professional and courteous people to work with.

~ignium

That would be Jimmy

 

[henchmen77]

for you hardcore 45ACP guys here.

1911 is a nice pistol but there are better pistols out there. And 45ACP is a nice round but a 40SW or 9mm is just as good with todays bullets and powders.

And to be honest you have better control and fallow up shots with a 9 mm over a 45 ACP and it comes down to shot placement not bullet weight or size!

I hate to say it but you die hard 45 guys need to stop and see what else is out there and stop acting like the 45 ACP is the best round on there. There are lots of LE reports of shootings where guys have taken 8-45 ACP to the chest and keep coming (and lived) so there go's the old stand by (A 45 will knock you on your butt) which I hear a lot on other forums, that's like going to www.glocktalk.com god forbid you think the M&P or any pistol is better then a glock you say that on there you will be lucky not to get banned.

The 45 ACP 230gr is heavy but its only going about 950 ftps, I have seen a 7.62x39 knock someone off there feet but that bullet is really moving! A pistol caliber is weak but as they say you use your pistol to get to your rifle or shotgun which will end the fight fast!

If they guy got the M&P there noting wrong with that some of you guys talk like its a bad buy because its not a 45? please!!

 

[DavidC77]

I,m suprized he walked out with a 40 S&W (I love that round, it is my carry gun round) but he went in for a 1911 (45 ACP) and came out with a 40 S&W. Ya I no 1911's come in other rounds, but when you think 1911 you think 45 ACP.

Why not the S&W M&P 45 ???

Just wondering ???

 

[jim42]

I,m suprized he walked out with a 40 S&W (I love that round, it is my carry gun round) but he went in for a 1911 (45 ACP) and came out with a 40 S&W. Ya I no 1911's come in other rounds, but when you think 1911 you think 45 ACP.

Why not the S&W M&P 45 ???

Just wondering ???

its not Mass Comp

 

[ignium]

That would be Jimmy

Hey Jimmy. Thanks for the help today. When you get a chance I'd love to see the 1911 builds you made.

 

[jim42]

Hey Jimmy. Thanks for the help today. When you get a chance I'd love to see the 1911 builds you made.

Anytime,let me know when you are coming in and ill bring the 1911 to the shop.Jim

 

[DavidC77]

I,m suprized he walked out with a 40 S&W (I love that round, it is my carry gun round) but he went in for a 1911 (45 ACP) and came out with a 40 S&W. Ya I no 1911's come in other rounds, but when you think 1911 you think 45 ACP.

Why not the S&W M&P 45 ???

Just wondering ???[ its not Mass Comp

OH sorry, I thought it was by now, I know the guys at S&W told me it was going to be soon so I thought it was by now.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The .45 "MAY" be indeed compliant, now or on next List. I accidentally found some EOPS doc a few days ago that implied as much. I forwarded said info to GOAL, Carl and some other "interested parties" to see what they can sort out.

Stay tuned.