Gold and silver prices are down

[AverageJoe]

That would make the PMs you own skyrocket in value.

They’re probably already manipulating gold and silver, the central banks buy a lot of gold, and someone seems to waltz in and sell a ton of gold whenever it hits key resistance levels. And the government punishes gold buyers by treating it as a collectible rather than a currency or investment.

All this effort to suppress gold and silver just makes me want to own them.

I'm convinced they will never let you profit from this. Not being negative, just being realistic. Any collapse of the economy or the currency will be a controlled demolition, and they will have policies in place to prevent people from benefiting from PMs, i.e. Making it illegal, or egregious tax rates, or who knows what else. If a real collapse of the currency/economy occurred that wasn't being guided by the PTB, having PM would very low on your prioty list.

 

[Win]

Egyptian billionaire Naguib Sawiris isn’t your typical gold bug.

The chairman of Orascom Telecom Media and Technology Holding S.A.E. told Bloomberg in an interview from Cairo this week that he sees gold GCM8, -0.89% surging up to $1,800 an ounce while the “overvalued” stock market hits the skids.

Sawiris, Egypt’s second-richest man behind his younger brother, is putting his money where his mouth is, investing half his $5.7 billion net worth in gold.

“In the end you have China and they will not stop consuming,” he said. “And people also tend to go to gold during crises and we are full of crises right now. Look at the Middle East and the rest of the world and Mr. Trump doesn’t help.”

Billionaire girds for stock-market crash by investing half his net worth in gold

 

[enbloc]

I'm convinced they will never let you profit from this. Not being negative, just being realistic. Any collapse of the economy or the currency will be a controlled demolition, and they will have policies in place to prevent people from benefiting from PMs, i.e. Making it illegal, or egregious tax rates, or who knows what else. If a real collapse of the currency/economy occurred that wasn't being guided by the PTB, having PM would very low on your prioty list.

Joe, how have you prepared for an economic collapse? Paid off your mortgage and credit cards, own your family's autos outright? How about cash on hand? Got a year's worth?
Stocked up on winter wheat/beans/rice/powdered eggs and milk. Do you own a hand mill? Taken a course in basic medical? Reload ammo?
Have the ability to purify large amounts of pool water? How about Comms? Do you have a HAM lic and station?
Do the wife and kids know how to clear your house, in the dark, with multiple trespassers while using firearms? How much range-time do you and the family get?
Have you and your family had all their shots? How about tetanus booster? Do you have multiple backups of meds, both OTC and Script? Gauze, antibiotics, tourniquets?
Teeth all sound and solid? Supplies to temporarily handle any dental emergencies? Have you set up a network of friends and family who are like-minded and like-prepared?
Do you train with them? How is your Manuals Library? Up to date, and on paper? Can't trust the electrical grid in a EC event. Do you have a way to charge re-chargeable batteries? Solar? Manually powered alternator for cloudy days and night? How about heirloom seed stocks? Know how to raise chickens or butcher rabbits? Can't trust the supply chain during an EC event.

So, back to Precious Metals. When you have everything you and your family needs for a minimum of One Year and beyond in some cases... Why not buy a little Shiny???

~Matt

 

[enbloc]

 

[AverageJoe]

Joe, how have you prepared for an economic collapse? Paid off your mortgage and credit cards, own your family's autos outright? How about cash on hand? Got a year's worth?
Stocked up on winter wheat/beans/rice/powdered eggs and milk. Do you own a hand mill? Taken a course in basic medical? Reload ammo?
Have the ability to purify large amounts of pool water? How about Comms? Do you have a HAM lic and station?
Do the wife and kids know how to clear your house, in the dark, with multiple trespassers while using firearms? How much range-time do you and the family get?
Have you and your family had all their shots? How about tetanus booster? Do you have multiple backups of meds, both OTC and Script? Gauze, antibiotics, tourniquets?
Teeth all sound and solid? Supplies to temporarily handle any dental emergencies? Have you set up a network of friends and family who are like-minded and like-prepared?
Do you train with them? How is your Manuals Library? Up to date, and on paper? Can't trust the electrical grid in a EC event. Do you have a way to charge re-chargeable batteries? Solar? Manually powered alternator for cloudy days and night? How about heirloom seed stocks? Know how to raise chickens or butcher rabbits? Can't trust the supply chain during an EC event.

So, back to Precious Metals. When you have everything you and your family needs for a minimum of One Year and beyond in some cases... Why not buy a little Shiny???

~Matt

Lol, stopped at shots and tetanus.

 

[enbloc]

Lol, stopped at shots and tetanus.

You did better than me. I stifled a yawn at "Do you own a hand mill?"
~Matt

 

[Win]

Joe, how have you prepared for an economic collapse? Paid off your mortgage and credit cards, own your family's autos outright? How about cash on hand? Got a year's worth?
Stocked up on winter wheat/beans/rice/powdered eggs and milk. Do you own a hand mill? Taken a course in basic medical? Reload ammo?
Have the ability to purify large amounts of pool water? How about Comms? Do you have a HAM lic and station?
Do the wife and kids know how to clear your house, in the dark, with multiple trespassers while using firearms? How much range-time do you and the family get?
Have you and your family had all their shots? How about tetanus booster? Do you have multiple backups of meds, both OTC and Script? Gauze, antibiotics, tourniquets?
Teeth all sound and solid? Supplies to temporarily handle any dental emergencies? Have you set up a network of friends and family who are like-minded and like-prepared?
Do you train with them? How is your Manuals Library? Up to date, and on paper? Can't trust the electrical grid in a EC event. Do you have a way to charge re-chargeable batteries? Solar? Manually powered alternator for cloudy days and night? How about heirloom seed stocks? Know how to raise chickens or butcher rabbits? Can't trust the supply chain during an EC event.

I suddenly feel very unprepared

 

[enbloc]

I'm older and more paranoid than you...

 

[Varmint]

I'm convinced they will never let you profit from this. Not being negative, just being realistic. Any collapse of the economy or the currency will be a controlled demolition, and they will have policies in place to prevent people from benefiting from PMs, i.e. Making it illegal, or egregious tax rates, or who knows what else. If a real collapse of the currency/economy occurred that wasn't being guided by the PTB, having PM would very low on your prioty list.

I don't think most people buy PMs to profit. After all, a gold coin buys today the same thing it bought 20 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, and 2000 years ago. Someone said a gold coin bought you a nice toga in Roman times. Today, it buys a nice suit. A gold coin is not going to grow and buy you 10 nice suits, but when an average suit costs $10,000 dollars, one gold coin will still buy it.

So PMs are a way to avoid the destruction of your currency's purchasing power. The other thing physical gold buys you is security. In Nazi Germany, gold coins got you passage to Switzerland. In a terrible future, the US government could freeze all your assets except gold, which you could use to buy your escape, just like refugees have done for centuries.

The government can ban gold ownership, but they don't know how much gold we have, and a ban would greatly increase the value of the gold you already own.

 

[enbloc]

PM's were never for-profit for me, but if I sold all I had at Today's price, I'd be up.
I can only say that because I've been stacking since the early 1980's when an ozt was $5.

 

[Varmint]

In 1970 you could have bought Berkshire Hathaway and held it for 15 years, or you could have just bought gold and got the same huge return. No wonder Buffett hates gold, lol.

 

[AverageJoe]

I don't think most people buy PMs to profit. After all, a gold coin buys today the same thing it bought 20 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, and 2000 years ago. Someone said a gold coin bought you a nice toga in Roman times. Today, it buys a nice suit. A gold coin is not going to grow and buy you 10 nice suits, but when an average suit costs $10,000 dollars, one gold coin will still buy it.

So PMs are a way to avoid the destruction of your currency's purchasing power. The other thing physical gold buys you is security. In Nazi Germany, gold coins got you passage to Switzerland. In a terrible future, the US government could freeze all your assets except gold, which you could use to buy your escape, just like refugees have done for centuries.

The government can ban gold ownership, but they don't know how much gold we have, and a ban would greatly increase the value of the gold you already own.

Escape to where.....

 

[Varmint]

Escape to where.....

hey, if you trust the US government that much, don't buy gold, buy Treasuries and the dollar. PMs are for people who aren't that trusting.

 

[AverageJoe]

hey, if you trust the US government that much, don't buy gold, buy Treasuries and the dollar. PMs are for people who aren't that trusting.

Reread my post

 

[Rob Boudrie]

In 1970 you could have bought Berkshire Hathaway and held it for 15 years, or you could have just bought gold and got the same huge return. No wonder Buffett hates gold, lol.

Except you would get long term capital gains on BH and pay ordinary income gains on gold.

 

[Varmint]

Except you would get long term capital gains on BH and pay ordinary income gains on gold.

Not if it’s in an IRA.

Does anyone pay taxes on physical gold sales? Isn’t that like voluntarily paying online sales tax?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Does anyone pay taxes on physical gold sales? Isn’t that like voluntarily paying online sales tax?

It depends on the scale. Nobody is going to give a rodent's rectum if you sell a few coins or rolls of silver at Iggy's walk-in shop. Try selling investment quantities like a few rolls of gold Eagles or monster boxes of silver to a brokerage and you're creating a record of tax fraud.

 

[Win]

Keep your receipts on the large ticket items. I’ve heard on coin boards where folks were forced to pay taxes on the sale price of coins rather than the difference on the buy and sell price simply because they didn’t have their purchase receipt.

 

[Varmint]

It depends on the scale. Nobody is going to give a rodent's rectum if you sell a few coins or rolls of silver at Iggy's walk-in shop. Try selling investment quantities like a few rolls of gold Eagles or monster boxes of silver to a brokerage and you're creating a record of tax fraud.

Yeah like I said people shouldn’t really view PMs as investment vehicles, they’re hedges against dollar destruction and disaster. My kids can worry about the tax basis.

 

[Varmint]

Keep your receipts on the large ticket items. I’ve heard on coin boards where folks were forced to pay taxes on the sale price of coins rather than the difference on the buy and sell price simply because they didn’t have their purchase receipt.

If you hold long enough they might go to a gold standard, and then there shouldn’t be any taxes on the sale.

 

[AverageJoe]

If you hold long enough they might go to a gold standard, and then there shouldn’t be any taxes on the sale.

Lol, we'll be chipped in a generation or 2, cash is on its way out, gold will will never be a standard again.

 

[NHCraigT]

 

[Win]

I watched that one a while ago. That's a lot of silver!

 

[Varmint]

Lol, we'll be chipped in a generation or 2, cash is on its way out, gold will will never be a standard again.

And when that government wet dream fails catastrophically, they may look to gold. Why do you think the central banks are buying up gold?

 

[AverageJoe]

And when that government wet dream fails catastrophically, they may look to gold. Why do you think the central banks are buying up gold?

Who do you think controls the governments?

 

[allen-1]

Yes I got the 5x9x24. What’s SBR?

Short Barrelled Rifle

 

[enbloc]

SBR = Silver Bar Raconteur

 

[Rob Boudrie]

My kids can worry about the tax basis.

Death is one of the best tax dodges ever.

When you inherit securities or PMs the cost basis is reset to the time of the willing person's death. The gain that occurred prior to death simply evaporates. If you are old enough, it is more cost effective to borrow money against appreciated stock and pay the interest rather than the capital gains. Be sure you can document what the large brokerages are charging for the item you inherit at the time of death since you want to be able to prove "what I would have to pay" cost basis rather than spot.

If you have stock that has lost value, sell it before you die, because the cost that is reset to the value at the time of death as well.

The also suggests that it is a good strategy to die at a market high if you have a large amount of stock in your estate.

 

[JohnZ]

Keep your receipts on the large ticket items. I’ve heard on coin boards where folks were forced to pay taxes on the sale price of coins rather than the difference on the buy and sell price simply because they didn’t have their purchase receipt.

Guy must have had a bad lawyer. My question would have been "when was the last time that coins were sold for $0?" I think at the most, they could only base your basis on the lowest price since you came out of the womb.

 

[Win]

Guy must have had a bad lawyer. My question would have been "when was the last time that coins were sold for $0?" I think at the most, they could only base your basis on the lowest price since you came out of the womb.

Yes, I see what you're saying and that certainly makes intuitive sense to me. The folks discussing the issue were prominent and well respected coin dealers so I have followed their advice. I do think it's good advice.

I would also note that many of the coins that I've purchased in my adult life have appreciated significantly over my lifetime. For instance the 1856 $20 double eagle that I just recently purchased for $1,440 is listed as $160 in my 1974 (my birth year) rebook. So I wouldn't be writing off nearly enough just going back to the price of my collection at my birth.