Going for a 40+ acre lot....Thoughts?

DJBrad

NES Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Messages
15,844
Likes
40,873
Feedback: 2 / 0 / 0
I’m tired of the city life and we’re planning on a new efficient build with a long gravel drive on private water and sewer. There are few properties like that existing on 40+ acres so we’re buying land first. Minimum of 30 acres as I want to have plenty of setbacks for shooting and hunting.

Any thoughts on best practices?

1. Chapter 61?
2. Equity to play long game vs land loans>construction loans
3. Hobby farming > full production to support family
4. Dealing with trespassers
5. Creating Habitat
6. Cost of home vs cost of land and general breakdown of costs.


I’m skilled in all things short of laying a foundation or being able to use heavy machinery since I don’t own any nor do I want to. I’m planning on getting either a very very small excavator or skid steer with tracks and addons. Long gravel road with underground electric. Still looking for the perfect plot and will do perc test (if not done already), well, land clearing. Not looking for a lawn. Not looking for anything fancy but a custom cape with 3 beds/2 baths with 2 car garage. I will build a very large shed or barn. I have a builder already who is pliable and my timeframe is 2-4 years. Worcester County Ma is the location.
 
Last edited:
Chapter 61/61a/61b is good, but you will probably have to do a bit of legal work so that there is one parcel with your residence and the rest with chapter land, since you put the entire parcel into chapter status. Outside of chapter status you will pay valuation based on "highest and best use", which means you are screwed if it;s suitable for a bunch of house lots.

Also, be aware that the requirement to back-pay the differential and the additional conveyance tax (I think only if taken out of chapter status within 10 years) will significantly reduce the resale value of the land, even if the buyer wants to keep it as chapter land. Then there is the pesky bit about the buyer having to wait out the right of first refusal offer you would have to give the town. Of course, this is irrelevant if you plan on living there until you croak.

61=forrest; 61a=agriculture; 61b=recreational

If you go as chapter 61 (not a or b) you will need a management plan done by a licensed forrester.

There is an interesting publication on the rates at : https://masswoods.org/sites/masswoods.net/files/Forest Land Valuation Calculation.pdf

Long gravel road with underground electric.
Running your own electric underground can be expen$sive - I suggest you check specifics on that a priori.
 
Last edited:
I’m tired of the city life and we’re planning on a new efficient build with a long gravel drive on private water and sewer. There are few properties like that existing on 40+ acres so we’re buying land first. Minimum of 30 acres as I want to have plenty of setbacks for shooting and hunting.

Any thoughts on best practices?

1. Chapter 61?
2. Equity to play long game vs land loans>construction loans
3. Hobby farming > full production to support family
4. Dealing with trespassers
5. Creating Habitat
6. Cost of home vs cost of land and general breakdown of costs.


I’m skilled in all things short of laying a foundation or being able to use heavy machinery since I don’t own any nor do I want to. I’m planning on getting either a very very small excavator or skid steer with tracks and addons. Long gravel road with underground electric. Still looking for the perfect plot and will do perc test (if not done already), well, land clearing. Not looking for a lawn. Not looking for anything fancy but a custom cape with 3 beds/2 baths with 2 car garage. I will build a very large shed or barn. I have a builder already who is pliable and my timeframe is 2-4 years. Worcester County Ma is the location.
Lol with that much land you’d be best to start liking heavy machinery sooner.... [laugh]
 
Royalston is just under 1 hour to the concord rotary. If you pick Templeton or Phillipston you can save 10 minutes sine they are right on Rt2
Lol that shit is tinbuck 5 for a cup commute. I know one guy that does Baldwinville to Cambridge every day but he has in early leave early privileges, he gets in under early AM darkness and is out by like 3 pm... otherwise that commute would make you blow your brains out.
 
40 acres in central mass is going to be tough unless you go Phillipston maybe or somewhere by me Warren Palmer etc. I can be in Boston in about 1:30 but did that commute for awhile and wasn't worth it rather work out this way for a little less $$.
All depends on your budget for land I guess.
 
A bit too far. I’m trying to keep a 1.5hr or less commute from Boston during non peak hours.

Wouldn't that open up a large portion of southern New Hampshire? I suppose a lot of it has to do with what you consider non peak hours.
Good luck with your plans. It sounds like you have given it some thought. It would be great to be able to hunt on your own land and doing so in most of Worcester County will hardly raise an eyebrow. As for "shooting" on your land, that may be a different story, depending on your plans. It's one thing to sight in your deer rifle and put a box of ammo through it. 30 round mag dumps from an AR is likely to bring unwanted attention, even on a 40 acre parcel. Especially in months when the leaves are down.
If I was going to drop that much coin, I would have to consider living someplace I could own suppressors and other items prohibited in Mass.

A small Bobcat is pretty capable, but you may find a decent tractor gives you more flexibility and makes it a lot easier to maintain a long gravel driveway.
 
I’m tired of the city life and we’re planning on a new efficient build with a long gravel drive on private water and sewer. There are few properties like that existing on 40+ acres so we’re buying land first. Minimum of 30 acres as I want to have plenty of setbacks for shooting and hunting.

Any thoughts on best practices?

1. Chapter 61?
2. Equity to play long game vs land loans>construction loans
3. Hobby farming > full production to support family
4. Dealing with trespassers
5. Creating Habitat
6. Cost of home vs cost of land and general breakdown of costs.


I’m skilled in all things short of laying a foundation or being able to use heavy machinery since I don’t own any nor do I want to. I’m planning on getting either a very very small excavator or skid steer with tracks and addons. Long gravel road with underground electric. Still looking for the perfect plot and will do perc test (if not done already), well, land clearing. Not looking for a lawn. Not looking for anything fancy but a custom cape with 3 beds/2 baths with 2 car garage. I will build a very large shed or barn. I have a builder already who is pliable and my timeframe is 2-4 years. Worcester County Ma is the location.

Big project and it's going to run BIG BUCKS. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone making such a huge and drastic move/life change would choose to stay in MA.

Hard to answer those questions without knowing the lay of the land and makeup of the soil.

Don't buy anything unless there is water available....either a reasonably priced well with good water or city/county water.

Don't buy anything that will not perc AT YOUR INTENDED HOUSE SITE..... Not some agent's randomly selected spot.

Have you investigated the local permitting fees, inspection fees, taxes, building codes, etc.??

How close are the neighbors built up to the borders?

Does the land drain naturally?........in a favorable direction and area?

Does it get winter sun when the sun is low on the horizon?

If you are paying to have all the work done, think $$$$$$$$$$$.

I built on 100 acres of raw land here, but the costs are a small fraction of where you are. All I can say is good luck, you will need it.....along with lots and lots of cash.
 
I'd like the same on ocean or ocean access waterfront! I grew up in Worcester county [puke]

Sounds like an abandoned industrial site as an option, then contamination remediation. Even an undeveloped parcel in Worcester County was mostly likely a dumping ground at some point in time. I'd estimate 1-2M to start.

Try to find an old farm that hasn't been subdivided or has a waiting line of developer bids to family members. Same with any parcel.
I have the small loader, dozer/backhoe, trailer, and truck that you need from my very scaled down version of your idea! And an RV to live in to get started! The iTampon generation just doesn't do this anymore.

3. Hobby farming > full production to support family - What do you plan on "Growing"? Now I'm getting the idea [wink]
 
Last edited:
Do you plan on taking a loan for the land? Very few banks will do this for a reasonable rate, if at all. A construction loan might work. But that would likely be tough also.

Dave
 
All great points of consideration which I’ve already taken into account.

Land will be purchased outright and if a bit of equity is needed that would come first before land loan to construction loan to conventional mortgage. When all is said and done I’d be sitting on a 1/3 of a small mortgage by median standards in central Ma. This using my current home which is close to being paid off in a few years.

Tractor might be a better idea and possibly both the steer and the tractor. Not a big deal for me financially to work this whole thing out.

Unbuildable lots are an issue and I realize building new nowadays is opening a whole can of worms due to regs on wildlife and watershed.

Like I said, due to family and work I’d like to stick to Worcester county. I would love to get into NH but that just isn’t feasible for the long term. The lots here that are in and around 1/4 million do have some zoning, well water, and setback issues with very few otherwise. Spring is coming so they’ll be more stock on the market. I missed one prime piece of land and I’m hoping that deal falls through. That would have been a sweet deal. 40+ acres with all utilities done.
 
Avoid any lot with wet lands at any cost
And try to get a flat lot.
I had some small wet lands on my property that made it cost more $$ during building and headaches.
I am also up on a hill which is great most of the year but winter time slipping and sliding sucks and with a steep drive way I am limited on what size trucks and trailers I can get in.
 
In 2012 I did something similar to what you are planning. My lot is 9 acres that backs into conservation land. Some tips and thoughts for you:

1) Wetlands, Not a show stopper if they are far enough from your building site. Remember that ANYTHING that looks like a stream has a regulated buffer zone 200ft around it....swamps are generally only 100ft. The tree huggers in some towns have increased buffer zones....CHECK THE BYLAWS CAREFULLY!

2) Visit the town website and read meeting minutes from the select board and conservation committee. Get a sense of how they think about taxes, land use issues, etc. Also get a copy of the town bylaws.

3) The state has bought a ton of land in my area which means you might not need so much land. The parcels are a checkerboard of state and private parcels. This is good and bad. Its good that no one will be building on the state lands, its bad because the state is not a good neighbor. The DFW will tell you you cant ride snowmobiles on a trail thats been in existence for 100 years because of "wildlife disruption". The following year they will clear cut 100 acres right next you which of course doesn't disrupt anything.

4) hire or rent an excavator and dig some holes where your leach field will be (required). While you are at it dig some holes where the house will go looking for water table and ledge. My house site I was able to dig 10ft holes and it was all fine sand and large boulders. 1000ft away my neighbor hit ledge at 6ft! The pot farm down the road hit ledge at like 12 inches.

5) Power, it took me 18 months to get power to my site. Partly due to a national grid strike and because their crap is so old they had to replace poles and some other things.

5a) Power, my neighbor just went thru this. His service is 800ft from the street. National grid wanted to charge him $20K to run power to the house. He opted for a pedestal at the road and ran a big ass cable probably saved $10K. His service will suffer from more voltage loss than a normal house but we're close to the substation and our voltage runs about 246 volts which provides a bit of cushion.

6) Snowmobile clubs can be a valuable source of info. Club members generally know all the local trails and good places to hunt. You can also get a sense of where people might be crossing your land to access the snowmoble trails. ATV and jeep activity tends to follow snowmobile trails, you can get a sense if you will have issues with that.

7) Internet and cell phone access. Royalston and some other towns in the area are a clusterF*** when it comes to this. I have heard secondhand that Royalston refused to permit cell towers and would not alllow Comcast to access the lower village area for cable TV. In south Royalston there is cable TV access 1000ft from a group of about 50 homes and they can't use it! Fast forward and the town has borrowed $1.6M to roll out wireless internet service and the message has been "installation next fall" since 2013! When they finally roll it out it will be real speeds of about 8.5MB down, current DSL provides 1.8. Had they allowed comcast and a cell phone tower in years ago we would be in far better shape. The new system will be obsolete before its even installed.

8) Chat with the building inspectors you can determine how sore your testicles will be after your build. My experience with building inspectors is that they just want to be in the loop on what you are doing and mine has been quite helpful. Plumbing inspectors...forget it they are cocksuckers, just hire a plumber....buy some lube first. When I built the electrical inspector was fantastic, super nice guy saw I was not cutting corners actually reduced my permit fees because my place is so small. When I had my electrical service installed 2 years later he had retired and the person replacing him has a special place reserved for him in hell....total f***ing cocksucker....will not talk you unless you are a licensed electrician....will not return your call telling you that.

All I can think of at the moment.....
That was a very helpful and informative post! Thank you.
 
Look to the government, they have all the solutions..


But seriously, one of these programs they have may fit the bill.
 
Royalston is a nice town
A bit too far. I’m trying to keep a 1.5hr or less commute from Boston during non peak hours.
Good luck finding anything close to 40 acres from Gardner east in northern Worcester County. 10-12 acres is about the max you'll find; 6-9 is considered a large plot. Even in that range you're competing with developers which drives up the price. I wish I'd considered western Hillsborough or eastern Cheshire counties in NH when I moved west from Fitchburg.
 
Good luck finding anything close to 40 acres from Gardner east in northern Worcester County. 10-12 acres is about the max you'll find; 6-9 is considered a large plot. Even in that range you're competing with developers which drives up the price. I wish I'd considered western Hillsborough or eastern Cheshire counties in NH when I moved west from Fitchburg.
Hoping for the best. Already I’ve seen three 30+ acre lots and 2 sold all for under $230k within the last 4 months. They’re out there.
 
Odd side effect of legal pot....you are also now competing with pot growers. The guy down the street bought up some 50-70 acre plots around his main grow site. Partially for future expansion and partially to keep the NIMBYS 1000ft further away. He also bought up a really odd 70+ acre back lot as an outdoor commercial hemp grow site.

Even in that range you're competing with developers which drives up the price.
 
Lol that shit is tinbuck 5 for a cup commute. I know one guy that does Baldwinville to Cambridge every day but he has in early leave early privileges, he gets in under early AM darkness and is out by like 3 pm... otherwise that commute would make you blow your brains out.

Not with a self driving car [rofl] Just saying.
 
Have you ever thought about the southcoast? Its constantly overlooked and has a really decent housing market in comparison to the rest of the state. Depending on when you leave, you can get out to Boston in 1.5 hours or hop on the commuter rail in Middleboro.
 
Coos county

And 11+ acres that directly adjoins USFS land.

That's what I did. I'm in the Southern part of Coös County.
I also border the National Forest. It's about 2-1/2 Hours to Boston.
It's a 2-1/4 Hour commute from Work or Home for me.
Since you're tied to Worcester County, Why not go one town over?
Fitzwilliam, Ringe & New Ipswich all border Mass.
 
Have you ever thought about the southcoast? Its constantly overlooked and has a really decent housing market in comparison to the rest of the state. Depending on when you leave, you can get out to Boston in 1.5 hours or hop on the commuter rail in Middleboro.

That 90 minute commute (and according to some people I know that live in the area you're being optimistic!) is to travel, what? 10 miles? At least Royalston you'll be AWAY from the city. Also, 40 acres in the south shore area... if you can find it, will it be both affordable and buildable?
 
Not with a self driving car [rofl] Just saying.

As much as my thinking brain hates that bullshit I would probably buy one if it existed and was proven safe and reliable. I guess that makes me a hypocrite. Especially if it would be legal for me to sip bourbon and smoke cigars while the thing was carting me around.

-Mike
 
Back
Top Bottom