GOAL: Q: "What about 80% or “unfinished” lowers and receivers – possession, serialization, possession, building?" - Can't Build Up Lowers Anymore?

Ron Jablonski said:
For what it's worth they also dropped Niel Tassel's name to. As to the extent of "advising" they received from either attorneys, I can't speak to that obviously. Listen to the episode.
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What is the synopsis? All lowers are illegal?
 
Ron Jablonski said:
Listen to the episode, my takeaway was that goal considers 7/16 to be the grandfather date for specific items, not 8/1.
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so, essentially, everyone is a felon and jail to be our home soon. ok. marvelous. did they get that many jails built already, for an every lower sold after 7/16?

we will have to wait for a first unfortunate mofo to get into the wheels of this new jaggernaught, it seems, to see how it all is going to be spun.
 
DJBrad said:
Don’t get caught with a finished unserialized firearm. But you already know this.
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Why?
You aren't required to serialize until the state actually has a method to issue a serial and get it registered with the state.
So how can you break a law that is impossible to comply with and not even active for up to two years?

2449 SECTION 158. The department of criminal justice information services shall establish the serial number request system established pursuant to section 121C of chapter 140 of the General Laws, as inserted by section 32, not later than 1 year after the effective date of this act; provided, that all firearms shall be serialized in accordance with this act and not later than 1 year after said serial number request system is completed and publicly available.
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pastera said:
Why?
You aren't required to serialize until the state actually has a method to issue a serial and get it registered with the state.
So how can you break a law that is impossible to comply with and not even active for up to two years?
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Because the law is in force and unserialized “finished” firearms are felonies. If unfinished then it’s not a problem.
 
paul73 said:
so, essentially, everyone is a felon and jail to be our home soon. ok. marvelous. did they get that many jails built already, for an every lower sold after 7/16?

we will have to wait for a first unfortunate mofo to get into the wheels of this new jaggernaught, it seems, to see how it all is going to be spun.
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No, there are so many holes in this bill you can drive a truck through them
4885 considers a lower a firearm, right?
It also exempts any ASF lawfully possessed on 8/1.
But prior to 10/2, that lower was nothing more than a federally regulated paperweight in Mass since the old law didn't speak to bare receivers at all.
So you lawfully possessed the ASF on 8/1 even though it was only a receiver.
Remember the new law doesn't say assault weapon lawfully possessed on 8/1 - it says assault-style firearm which on 8/1 didn't have a legal meaning since the law didn't take effect until 10/2.
So on 8/1 you legally possessed an assault weapon part which was also an assault-style firearm under the new laws for exemption purposes.

And the dealer exemption - even non-compliant guns in their inventory were lawfully possessed under their dealer license so received full exemption.

While that wasn't the legislature's intention it was what they wrote.

As for the 7/16 stuff, they are going to have trouble enforcing that on anyone with a relatively clean case - the state made an announcement then did exactly zero to enforce that announcement so going back now and saying that while they could have shut down sales. Eight years ago they decided to wait so they could prosecute more people now.
 
paul73 said:
so, essentially, everyone is a felon and jail to be our home soon. ok. marvelous. did they get that many jails built already, for an every lower sold after 7/16?

we will have to wait for a first unfortunate mofo to get into the wheels of this new jaggernaught, it seems, to see how it all is going to be spun.
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Many of us have been pointing that out for months, usually following it with the obvious conclusion that because of all these issues? They are unlikely to ever prosecute anyone.

Why would they bother? They know they're getting compliance as it is, without lifting a finger. They also know that letting this into the courts would likely get the whole thing killed. So they won't bother.
 
pastera said:
No, there are so many holes in this bill you can drive a truck through them
4885 considers a lower a firearm, right?
It also exempts any ASF lawfully possessed on 8/1.
But prior to 10/2, that lower was nothing more than a federally regulated paperweight in Mass since the old law didn't speak to bare receivers at all.
So you lawfully possessed the ASF on 8/1 even though it was only a receiver.
Remember the new law doesn't say assault weapon lawfully possessed on 8/1 - it says assault-style firearm which on 8/1 didn't have a legal meaning since the law didn't take effect until 10/2.
So on 8/1 you legally possessed an assault weapon part which was also an assault-style firearm under the new laws for exemption purposes.

And the dealer exemption - even non-compliant guns in their inventory were lawfully possessed under their dealer license so received full exemption.

While that wasn't the legislature's intention it was what they wrote.

As for the 7/16 stuff, they are going to have trouble enforcing that on anyone with a relatively clean case - the state made an announcement then did exactly zero to enforce that announcement so going back now and saying that while they could have shut down sales. Eight years ago they decided to wait so they could prosecute more people now.
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to be honest, i cannot even try to think seriously about all this. i see it as a stuff that can be spun - unlawfully - in an every given direction.

it does seem to have a lot of holes for sure, but, will any MA judge be inclined to even try to listen to any reasonable justification of such holes?
when you deal with religious issues, and anti-gun is a religion here in MA - i am not so sure if any voice of reason can be applicable. but, will see.
 
Picton said:
Why would they bother?
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as new laws usually require some blood to be spilled, to ensure the proper respect for the process.

i agree - i do not see how it can actually be any prosecution based on this shit, but, the life here gets curiouser and curiouser by any given day.
 
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paul73 said:
to be honest, i cannot even try to think seriously about all this. i see it as a stuff that can be spun - unlawfully - in an every given direction.

it does seem to have a lot of holes for sure, but, will any MA judge be inclined to even try to listen to any reasonable justification of such holes?
when you deal with religious issues, and anti-gun is a religion here in MA - i am not so sure if any voice of reason can be applicable. but, will see.
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I felt the same until I read the SJC's Canjura opinion.
And now that is controlling in Mass so the state is very likely to blink first to try to retain some level of compliance.
 
paul73 said:
as new laws usually require some blood to be spilled, to ensure the proper respect for the process.

i agree - i do not see how it can actually be any prosecution based on this shit, but, the life here gets curiosier and curiosier by any given day.
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As long as we can keep the 2a groups funded well enough the only people likely to get screwed by most of this crap are those for which it's just an additional charge and faggot cucks that jump for a prohibiting lesser charge.
 
paul73 said:
as new laws usually require some blood to be spilled, to ensure the proper respect for the process.
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You are not familiar with MAs legislative sloth apparently. Nobody cares about this pile of crap. No DA is really going to be interesting in using stuff like this. There's already piles of MA gun law not enforced because it's so poorly written it's a pain in the ass to do so.
 
pastera said:
No, there are so many holes in this bill you can drive a truck through them
4885 considers a lower a firearm, right?
It also exempts any ASF lawfully possessed on 8/1.
But prior to 10/2, that lower was nothing more than a federally regulated paperweight in Mass since the old law didn't speak to bare receivers at all.
So you lawfully possessed the ASF on 8/1 even though it was only a receiver.
Remember the new law doesn't say assault weapon lawfully possessed on 8/1 - it says assault-style firearm which on 8/1 didn't have a legal meaning since the law didn't take effect until 10/2.
So on 8/1 you legally possessed an assault weapon part which was also an assault-style firearm under the new laws for exemption purposes.

And the dealer exemption - even non-compliant guns in their inventory were lawfully possessed under their dealer license so received full exemption.

While that wasn't the legislature's intention it was what they wrote.

As for the 7/16 stuff, they are going to have trouble enforcing that on anyone with a relatively clean case - the state made an announcement then did exactly zero to enforce that announcement so going back now and saying that while they could have shut down sales. Eight years ago they decided to wait so they could prosecute more people now.
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I said “finished”. Maybe the usage of that term was not clear. I mean it as a fully functional firearm in your possession at the range, in your vehicle, on the hiking trail in the Blue hills. Again, there is the legal side and the wgaf side. I wouldn’t find it low risk to be found in possession an unserialized P80 or any 80% on your person while driving around Boston and you happen to get pulled over for some unforeseen circumstances. Who knows what could happen at anytime. I am at the same time not at all concerned with having my ar pistol and every other serialized 8/1 firearm in my possession at the range or otherwise.

I’m not talking about a stripped lower or even a lower that’s complete with an lpk and fcg. Especially not in one’s own home or property. Forget about the holes in this shit law as I’ve made this clear numerous times and don’t really care.


You are taking a greater risk with having a functioning unserialized build found on your person even with an LTC imho.
 
DJBrad said:
I said “finished”. Maybe the usage of that term was not clear. I mean it as a fully functional firearm in your possession at the range, in your vehicle, on the hiking trail in the Blue hills. Again, there is the legal side and the wgaf side. I wouldn’t find it low risk to be found in possession an unserialized P80 or any 80% on your person while driving around Boston and you happen to get pulled over for some unforeseen circumstances. Who knows what could happen at anytime. I am at the same time not at all concerned with having my ar pistol and every other serialized 8/1 firearm in my possession at the range or otherwise.

I’m not talking about a stripped lower or even a lower that’s complete with an lpk and fcg. Especially not in one’s own home or property. Forget about the holes in this shit law as I’ve made this clear numerous times and don’t really care.


You are taking a greater risk with having a functioning unserialized build found on your person even with an LTC imho.
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Again, there is ZERO difference, other than to a dealer, between a stripped lower and a functional firearm under this new law.
And since the topic was about an unserialized lower that assumes an 'unfinished' (80%) so by finished it was much more understandable to assume finished meant machined into a functional lower, not completed into a functional, fireable firearm.
 
pastera said:
Again, there is ZERO difference, other than to a dealer, between a stripped lower and a functional firearm under this new law.
And since the topic was about an unserialized lower that assumes an 'unfinished' (80%) so by finished it was much more understandable to assume finished meant machined into a functional lower, not completed into a functional, fireable firearm.
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You’re not going to carry a lower or frame.

But who cares. Remember the two phrases they were pushing publicly with this new law - ghost guns and red flags. I believe they will certainly enforce those two much more than any other part of the law.
 
pastera said:
And that Neil seems to have some different opinions if I remember the podcast correctly.
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I believe you're correct, I'd have to go back and re-listen. All I was saying is that Guida and Tassel were referenced. If anyone wants context then go listen to the episode.
 
drgrant said:
You are not familiar with MAs legislative sloth apparently. Nobody cares about this pile of crap. No DA is really going to be interesting in using stuff like this. There's already piles of MA gun law not enforced because it's so poorly written it's a pain in the ass to do so.
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I’m leaning towards the buzz phrases being the more important dick measuring for the sloths.

Any license holder who happens to get jammed up for any erpo or ghost gun shit will get prosecuted…… especially the closer you are to Boston. Just my opinion on this bill. Everything else in it is drunken monkey feces. Maybe my knowledge of how these monkeys stir their shit is not as keen as some of you.
 
DJBrad said:
I’m leaning towards the buzz phrases being the more important dick measuring for the sloths.

Any license holder who happens to get jammed up for any erpo or ghost gun shit will get prosecuted…… especially the closer you are to Boston. Just my opinion on this bill. Everything else in it is drunken monkey feces. Maybe my knowledge of how these monkeys stir their shit is not as keen as some of you.
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Meh, there's a laundry bucket of shit you or i would get hit with long before. People have literally walked in this state for worse. At the end of the day it's still the trash grade atuff that will make up the majority of gun charges here.

Now, having said that.... when that new system comes online, and the phase in expires... i think at that point the tendency to pursue registration based charges will start to take off, because. many can be low evidence required tack ons.
 
DJBrad said:
I’m leaning towards the buzz phrases being the more important dick measuring for the sloths.

Any license holder who happens to get jammed up for any erpo or ghost gun shit will get prosecuted…… especially the closer you are to Boston. Just my opinion on this bill. Everything else in it is drunken monkey feces. Maybe my knowledge of how these monkeys stir their shit is not as keen as some of you.
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This is a good point. "Ghost Gunz" is currently the legislature's favorite term, and a clear case of that might indeed get prosecuted loudly and publicly... before the charges are quietly dropped much later in the process.
 
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