GOAL Not Supporting Fish & Wildlife Fee Increases Until Serious Issues are Addressed

[BenDover]

You also should be asking why DFW is clear-cutting huge tracts of land. Where did the money they made from this go?

Some areas they cut are now several years old and they still look like hell, nothing is growing back. Many tracts of nearby private land were select cut and they are doing phenomenal after only 2 years. Lots of light and plenty of low brush growing back in...you can see the tree canopy expanding each year.

How can an organization who thinks you need to clean up your dog shit in the middle of the woods think its ok to remove all the trees?

 

[whacko]

Hunt/Fish out of state and kill the agencies funding.

I started hunting nh last year and it was worth every penny of the additional coast. Sunday hunting......yup.....muzzle loader during the rut.....yup......good public land for rabbit huntjng......yup. I hunted 1 day in mass last year and I don't plan to hunt mass much this year either. I already bought my sporting license for 2021 at the old rates obvioisly.....if it goes up to the proposed amounts for 2022 I'll just hunt NH only.

 

[whacko]

Push SCOTUS to strike down Pittman-Robertson
as an unconstitutional infringement on civil rights under the second amendment -
because its tax on non-hunting/self-defense goods fails strict scrutiny.

Hunters overwhelmingly supported that act when it passed in the 1930s. If it weren't for pit Rob there would be no wildlife to hunt.

But.....that's just my opinion.

 

[whacko]

You also should be asking why DFW is clear-cutting huge tracts of land. Where did the money they made from this go?

Some areas they cut are now several years old and they still look like hell, nothing is growing back. Many tracts of nearby private land were select cut and they are doing phenomenal after only 2 years. Lots of light and plenty of low brush growing back in...you can see the tree canopy expanding each year.

How can an organization who thinks you need to clean up your dog shit in the middle of the woods think its ok to remove all the trees?

Dude.....clear cutting creates habitat for grouse and rabbit as well as other forms of wildlife that require succesional forest. That's why they are doing it. Sure it "looks like hell" for a couple of years.....even the first 5 years....but it pays dividends in creating successional forests that support diverse Wildlife. And yeah.....grouse and rabbit. Talk to most bird hunters and they are praising the clear cutting.

You sounded like the soccer moms I argue with from time to time about clear cutting. Get over it. It's good to clear cut medium size tracts of old growth.

I said I hunted nh this last season. There are wma properties I hunted that were obviously clear cut about 8 to 10 years ago. Flushed 3 grouse out of there! On a WMA! Know how many wma properties in mass hold wild grouse? It's damn close to zero.

Some reading for you. Pay attention to the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder part". I personally am a fan of tracts of successional and early successional forests. Not necessarily that brambles, and young aspen and birch are "beautiful" to the eye.....but because I know what type of wildlife needs that type of habitat.

Forest Management is Not Deforestation - Ruffed Grouse Society

Deforestation, unlike forest management, refers to the permanent removal of a forest stand (that’s why it’s called DE-forestation).

ruffedgrousesociety.org

 

[HorizontalHunter]

They did a massive increase like that in Connecticut some years back. Nobody was buying licenses. A week before their trout season opened they rolled the increase back to a reasonable number and started selling licenses again.

Most folks wouldn’t object to a “reasonable“ increase but tags going up 400% is stupid. I already do most of my hunting out of state. It wouldn’t be hard for me to do all my hunting out of state.

Bob

 

[dixidawg]

You can provide feedback here:

MassWildlife Feedback Form

Please click the link to complete this form.

form.jotform.com

 

[dixidawg]

They are also going to have zoom meetings. I suggest everyone join one or more meetings and provide feedback. This page has times and links for the zoom meetings:

MassWildlife Funding

For the first time since 1996, MassWildlife is implementing increases to hunting, freshwater fishing, and trapping license fees effective for the 2022 calendar year.

www.mass.gov

 

[AHM]

Hunters overwhelmingly supported that act when it passed in the 1930s. If it weren't for pit Rob there would be no wildlife to hunt.

Doubtless.

 

[Dadstoys]

Losing places to hunt every year.
No Sunday hunting.
No crossbows.
Rules for coyote hunting that even the Clam Cops can't figure out. (Ask any two and you won't get the same answer.)
Relentless harassment from Moonbats , EPO's and some local PD's . (Don't get me started , I could go on for freaking hours after putting up with 48 years of crap trying to hunt in this state.
Sounds like something worth paying a shitload more for.

I'd even be in for a one year boycott of buying licenses .
Might be worth it to sit out a year to wake them up.

 

[AHM]

Doubtless.

P. S. Let's Face the Facts.

 

[BenDover]

Dude.....clear cutting creates habitat for grouse and rabbit as well as other forms of wildlife that require succesional forest. That's why they are doing it. Sure it "looks like hell" for a couple of years.....even the first 5 years....but it pays dividends in creating successional forests that support diverse Wildlife. And yeah.....grouse and rabbit. Talk to most bird hunters and they are praising the clear cutting.

You sounded like the soccer moms I argue with from time to time about clear cutting. Get over it. It's good to clear cut medium size tracts of old growth.

I said I hunted nh this last season. There are wma properties I hunted that were obviously clear cut about 8 to 10 years ago. Flushed 3 grouse out of there! On a WMA! Know how many wma properties in mass hold wild grouse? It's damn close to zero.

Some reading for you. Pay attention to the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder part". I personally am a fan of tracts of successional and early successional forests. Not necessarily that brambles, and young aspen and birch are "beautiful" to the eye.....but because I know what type of wildlife needs that type of habitat.

Forest Management is Not Deforestation - Ruffed Grouse Society

Deforestation, unlike forest management, refers to the permanent removal of a forest stand (that’s why it’s called DE-forestation).

ruffedgrousesociety.org

It's been 3-4....this summer I think will be 4 for the particular tract of DFW land I am thinking about. It's a total shit show the only thing that's growing is ferns. Heavy rains have eroded large hilly areas.

I don't have any issues with foresting even fairly aggressive clearing (hell I own a sawmill). The plot across from my house was 80% cleared (more than just the mature trees). Now 4 years later it's looking great...and yes rabbits and turkeys seem to be spending time there.

 

[Asaltweapon]

You also should be asking why DFW is clear-cutting huge tracts of land. Where did the money they made from this go?

Some areas they cut are now several years old and they still look like hell, nothing is growing back. Many tracts of nearby private land were select cut and they are doing phenomenal after only 2 years. Lots of light and plenty of low brush growing back in...you can see the tree canopy expanding each year.

How can an organization who thinks you need to clean up your dog shit in the middle of the woods think its ok to remove all the trees?

There hasn’t been clear cutting in MA ever. Take the milk coating off your glasses.
Follow me up north and I’ll show you some cutting and it’s still nothing compared to what clear cutting was.

 

[mac1911]

Curious?
does mass Fish and Game really care what goal thinks?

 

[whacko]

There hasn’t been clear cutting in MA ever. Take the milk coating off your glasses.
Follow me up north and I’ll show you some cutting and it’s still nothing compared to what clear cutting was.

Thats why there are grouse up north.

 

[whacko]

Curious?
does mass Fish and Game really care what goal thinks?

No. Absolutely not.

 

[whacko]

P. S. Let's Face the Facts.

I don't have time to read the old conservationist publications you posted.

What's your angle on pit rob?

 

[BenDover]

There hasn’t been clear cutting in MA ever. Take the milk coating off your glasses.
Follow me up north and I’ll show you some cutting and it’s still nothing compared to what clear cutting was.

I snowmobile up there and have seen it. Those areas are well managed and more like farm plots that are harvested every 20 years. They replant after harvest I'm pretty sure.

DFW says humans keep out....this is our land. And then they remove every vertical growing thing for biomass. The people who sold their land to the state I doubt would be happy with what DFW is doing. Other private landowners are harvesting timber and biomass without making a wasteland, so it can be done. I'm even ok with sections of forest being cleared with the intent of growing species of plants that require more sunlight.

 

[Asaltweapon]

I snowmobile up there and have seen it. Those areas are well managed and more like farm plots that are harvested every 20 years. They replant after harvest I'm pretty sure.

DFW says humans keep out....this is our land. And then they remove every vertical growing thing for biomass. The people who sold their land to the state I doubt would be happy with what DFW is doing. Other private landowners are harvesting timber and biomass without making a wasteland, so it can be done. I'm even ok with sections of forest being cleared with the intent of growing species of plants that require more sunlight.

Ok. I’ll bite.
Where do you snowmobile?
Hunt?
Fish?
Just general back roading, road sodas and exploring?

 

[whacko]

I snowmobile up there and have seen it. Those areas are well managed and more like farm plots that are harvested every 20 years. They replant after harvest I'm pretty sure.

DFW says humans keep out....this is our land. And then they remove every vertical growing thing for biomass. The people who sold their land to the state I doubt would be happy with what DFW is doing. Other private landowners are harvesting timber and biomass without making a wasteland, so it can be done. I'm even ok with sections of forest being cleared with the intent of growing species of plants that require more sunlight.

You didn't hear a word I said about clear cutting or read anything from the ruffed grouse society article did you?

1. There are ruffed grouse and hare up north because they clear cut.

2. Mass is mostly old growth forest due to lack of clear cutting over the long term....which is why we have deer and turkey in abundance but not grouse, rabbit and hare

3. Who cares what the former land owner thinks about what dfw did as far as clear cutting? There is a management intent behind the clear cutting. Yes....it can look like crap for a few years. Don't be obtuse.....and look at the goal over the long term.


This same thing happened in some areas in the Brookfields many years ago. Dfw proposed and planned for clear cutting many mid size lots for grouse habitat... and to bring back some diverse habitat. Soccer moms and pseudo hippies had a stroke.....media outlets heard their bitching and moaning.....headlines read "Massachusetts chainsaw massacre". Guess what you can find on that land 12 years later? Grouse.....woodcock......whippoorwill......and cottonntail. But the soccer moms and hippie f***s thing they know everything.

 

[BenDover]

Ok. I’ll bite.
Where do you snowmobile?
Hunt?
Fish?
Just general back roading, road sodas and exploring?

Dude I live in the middle of 1000's of acres managed by DFW, timber companies, and private owners. It's my backyard...with trails throughout. There have been (guessing) 40+ timber projects in the area in the past years. The projects on DFW lands are wastelands, the others look great.

 

[BenDover]

You didn't hear a word I said about clear cutting or read anything from the ruffed grouse society article did you?

1. There are ruffed grouse and hare up north because they clear cut.

2. Mass is mostly old growth forest due to lack of clear cutting over the long term....which is why we have deer and turkey in abundance but not grouse, rabbit and hare

3. Who cares what the former land owner thinks about what dfw did as far as clear cutting? There is a management intent behind the clear cutting. Yes....it can look like crap for a few years. Don't be obtuse.....and look at the goal over the long term.


This same thing happened in some areas in the Brookfields many years ago. Dfw proposed and planned for clear cutting many mid size lots for grouse habitat... and to bring back some diverse habitat. Soccer moms and pseudo hippies had a stroke.....media outlets heard their bitching and moaning.....headlines read "Massachusetts chainsaw massacre". Guess what you can find on that land 12 years later? Grouse.....woodcock......whippoorwill......and cottonntail. But the soccer moms and hippie f***s thing they know everything.

In general I'm ok with some cutting....not a fan of the 10 years its gonna take for the land to look good again. It's not my land, there's not much I can do other than ride my snowmobile on it.

 

[whacko]

In general I'm ok with some cutting....not a fan of the 10 years its gonna take for the land to look good again. It's not my land, there's not much I can do other than ride my snowmobile on it.

Your right.....its not yours so you really don't have a say in what it looks like. That's probably a good thing for habitat management that you don't.

In 10 to 12 years you could probably do some decent grouse or snowshoe hare hunting on it though.

 

[tuna]

Oh as a NH resident I fully support this in MA. (By support, I mean I’ll write this post for dark humor, I don’t really support this)

1. Payback to the Fudds who eff over other gun owners.
2. License sales will drop and the agencies will go broke. Ish.
3. People will stop hunting and fishing.
4. More trout in the streams to attract more beaver.
5. Beaver will damage infrastructure
6. More small game will create more coyotes.
7. Coyotes bite more liberals.

 

[FisherTech]

Hey folks, The Clam Cops, Swamp Cops or whatever you want to call them in Mass. do not work for Fish and Wildlife, The work under The Secretary of Energy and Environmental Affairs as a separate agency. They enforce all the laws and regulations that are under the umbrella of the Secretary.

 

[FisherTech]

Oh as a NH resident I fully support this in MA. (By support, I mean I’ll write this post for dark humor, I don’t really support this)

1. Payback to the Fudds who eff over other gun owners.
2. License sales will drop and the agencies will go broke. Ish.
3. People will stop hunting and fishing.
4. More trout in the streams to attract more beaver.
5. Beaver will damage infrastructure
6. More small game will create more coyotes.
7. Coyotes bite more liberals.

How do trout attract beaver? Beaver are vegetarians.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Dude I live in the middle of 1000's of acres managed by DFW, timber companies, and private owners. It's my backyard...with trails throughout. There have been (guessing) 40+ timber projects in the area in the past years. The projects on DFW lands are wastelands, the others look great.

Oh. I didn’t realize that 1000’s of acres of DFW land in MA could barely compare with northern Maine.
Forests require a management plan not only for wood value but also wildlife habitat and shelter areas.

 

[FisherTech]

Dude I live in the middle of 1000's of acres managed by DFW, timber companies, and private owners. It's my backyard...with trails throughout. There have been (guessing) 40+ timber projects in the area in the past years. The projects on DFW lands are wastelands, the others look great.

What were they clear cut? If so, that is actually good, as the new growth comes in which is usually blackberries and then the hardwood, both of those provide food and cover for the animals. The buds on the young hardwood will attract grouse, the other growth brings in deer and turkeys. That is just for starters.

 

[mac1911]

Losing places to hunt every year.
No Sunday hunting.
No crossbows.
Rules for coyote hunting that even the Clam Cops can't figure out. (Ask any two and you won't get the same answer.)
Relentless harassment from Moonbats , EPO's and some local PD's . (Don't get me started , I could go on for freaking hours after putting up with 48 years of crap trying to hunt in this state.
Sounds like something worth paying a shitload more for.

I'd even be in for a one year boycott of buying licenses .
Might be worth it to sit out a year to wake them up.

do you think this would work?
or do they just start the ,, well no one wants to hunt anymore lets do something with all that land?

 

[cjbenway]

I have bought hunting / fishing / bow / primitive stamps for me and my family over many years. Even though most seasons I get nothing.
DFW was the only organization I took pride in Massachusetts until they got involved in coyote politics.
Not going to buy a license this year, clearly they have been infiltrated by the antis. This State continues to decline.

 

[AHM]

I don't have time to read the old conservationist publications you posted.

What's your angle on pit rob?

By shortly after the war, the NYS Conservation Department was so hungry for the funds
that they were putting a lot of effort into telling hunters all the good things
they were doing on their behalf. They were very solicitous of hunters' support.

Is that how the equivalent bureaucracy in Mass. behaves nowadays?