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GM/Chevrolet really, really suck...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by richc, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. Super99Z

    Super99Z NES Member

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    The thing to keep in mind is GM has been done this road before many, many times. They know exactly how far they can push everything, how much it will cost them and probably the outcome.
     
  2. boiler_eng

    boiler_eng

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    The biggest variable is the person, whether the person will fight long term or not. There is a difference between GM having the upper hand and them just trying to play out an imaginary clock.
     
  3. Super99Z

    Super99Z NES Member

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    Well sure, but this isn't GM's first Erin Brockovich moment, they have been around a LONG time and built many shitty vehicles. Is the son this fired up or does he just want it to be over? 1 guy from MA isn't going to change GM.
     
  4. richc

    richc NES Member

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    He is very fired up. And we've agreed we're in this for the long term.

    We won't go away or agree to a substandard settlement including his damages.

    GM does likely have a spreadsheet that shows how far they can push these things to save money. And somewhere on that spreadsheet is a very small number of folks like me who know their game and won't play.

    And I do believe a judge would be astounded at the games they've played so far. A kid without his brand new truck for over 5 months and they're dragging their feet, including saying the prior settlement agreement was void or no longer available.

    There are still some principled people in this world who stand up for what is right.



     
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  5. boiler_eng

    boiler_eng

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    "Change GM" is different than "Get his pound of flesh"

    GM will be shitting on customers for decades after any of this concludes. That doesn't mean OP won't have the pound of flesh sitting on his shelf where he can go "Thats the pound of flesh GM had to give me after I ground them down."

    We all know the kind of push overs most people out there are, fairly sure for every 1 sticklers there are 2 people that would have negotiated down against themselves at the hint of shaving a week off. "Oh extend to March, sure. They can just pay me in GM bucks if that's easier!"

    The more people who roll over and buy into the "You cannot fight a faceless corporation" the longer a corporation will be able to hold out on those who fight because they have less fires to tend.
     
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  6. Garys

    Garys NES Member

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    A friend of mine had a GM station wagon with bad paint back in the late 1980s. I forget exactly how long it took him to get GM to do anything about it. They finally paid for a repaint, but it took way longer than it should have. It was a known problem with GM paint and yet they kept denying it time and ago.

    Then again, a guy I worked with had the same problem with BMW in the mid 1970s. I think it finally got resolved, but it was several years before they made good on it.

    OTOH, Toyota bought my son's first Tacoma back at 1.5 x the Kelly Blue Book price. Plus, they paid him for the Rhino Liner spray in bed a couple of other add ons he bought. They also replaced the frame on his 2005 Tacoma, although corporate had to send it to a second dealer after the first screwed the job up. That time, they gave him a new Camry to drive for the four months it took to get the first shot at the replacement done.

    As with GM, part of the hold up was that the dealer that did the job refused to respond to corporate inquiries as to what the F was going on. Like Richc, my son is part of that small number that just won't give up.

    Any company can screw up. It's not the screw up that matters, it's how they respond that matters. GM has a long history of refusing to accept responsibility until forced to. Anyone remember the Oldsmobile diesel fiasco of the late 1970s?
     
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  7. rcwhat

    rcwhat

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    I don’t want keep sounding like a Debby downer blaming the victim but I hope you have deep pockets and plenty of time and stress to spend fighting for legal bills. This is the #1 reason I said to avoid lawyers. You’re setting yourself up for even more headaches. Seriously just spend a half hour making phone calls, you may find a dealer willing to take the truck today and begin the recovery process. Or would you rather spend multiple days in court?
     
  8. rep308

    rep308 NES Member

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    Jesus what happens to the average dumb american in this situation? Richc you are smart and have the resources to engage council and wage a fight. The average Billy Bob or Sally Jane would be road kill at this point, which is maybe GM's plan
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  9. richc

    richc NES Member

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    It is part of their plan. They count on it.

     
  10. Misfitmike63

    Misfitmike63 NES Member

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    Damn, and I thought my issue with ram were bad!
     
  11. ThePreBanMan

    ThePreBanMan

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    I hope the OPs son really puts the screws to them and gets triple damages... This is pretty outrageous.
     
  12. Garys

    Garys NES Member

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    That seems to be part and parcel of "customer service" at some places these days. It took my wife from October until last week battling with Sears to get them to finally admit that they couldn't find a part to fix our stove. Last Monday was when they finally delivered a replacement stove. I'd tell the whole story, but no one would believe it. Suffice it to say that one part of the company doesn't know what the other part is doing.

    Oh, the part that they can't locate? I asked a friend of mine who does appliance repair if he could check. He did and told me that several parts houses had it and had it in multiple colors. Yet, Sears couldn't find it. No wonder they're going broke.

    Then there was L.L. Bean and the mystery of why they had no record of an item I bought and wanted replaced. That took my wife even longer to beat them into submission and get a refund issued.

    She's persistent and used to work in customer service. She knows what to say to get someone's attention.

    Maybe you should hire her! ;)

    On a more serious note, they are going to demand that you drop all other claims and agree not to sue as part of their settlement. They're going to resist paying for "incidentals" like car rental, insurance costs, loss of use, and the parking ticket.

    Be prepared.

     
  13. boilermaker

    boilermaker NES Member

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    Although the sentiment is good, I am not exactly sure what your leverage is here? You are already in an agreement which the other party is ignoring. The fact that you want them to pay your legal bills as well, you might be able to get them to pay some money on top of the outstanding loan amount, but not sure what your leverage is to get them to cover your legal costs.

    I would consider calling some large dealership that has many brands and maybe they can help you get out of GM and into another brand that they offer. Right now having the car in your driveway doesn't get you much. I wish you and your son luck in this, GM's behavior is really surprising.
     
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  14. Junior314

    Junior314 NES Member

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    The leverage would be the fact that they are violating the agreement and someone took the truck for a joyride for starters. I don’t think he’s out of bounds expecting that.
     
  15. Super99Z

    Super99Z NES Member

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    They did ask for an extension, however that plays in. I would think the beef with joyriding would end in suing the dealership not GM.
     
  16. Junior314

    Junior314 NES Member

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    Like the OP has said. Get this in front of a judge and see what happens.

    GM is jerking this kid around period. They needed more time they should have said that instead of reaching an agreement. They could easily cut a check.
     
  17. richc

    richc NES Member

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    Over the past week or so GM has put our attorney on ignore. They refuse to acknowledge written communications from our attorney. They fail to answer questions about the damages my son has experienced or his right to a loaner/rental. They keep communicating directly with my son as if nothing has happened.

    On Monday the BBB came back to life. They requested an extension to the settlement with GM to March 1. Hmmm. I'm not a lawyer, but that would seem to let GM off the hook for missing all prior settlement agreement commitments. So with our attorney's assistance, my son said no.

    Yesterday the BBB sent the following. Are with dealing with an impartial organization or The Sopranos? Is this the BBB's version of "We're making you an offer you can't refuse"?

    "“Hi MySon - I provided in your options in the response to the previous message. I understand that it is frustration to wait beyond the target date. However, General Motors either needs your permission for an extension to 3/11/19, or they are required to close your claim. They have regulatory oversight agencies that do not allow them to proceed past a performance date with the consumer's agreement. We have already passed that date. Please reply with your response to close or extend to 3/11/19 by this Friday, 2/15/19. Thank you.”

    So if this is true, and I don't believe it is fully true, GM can miss dates with abandon and then abandon the claim if the injured party does not agree to give them an extension? And if true why did GM ask my son for a bunch of info yesterday? Are they in violation of the laws that the BBB references? HUH???

    Thing is the settlement agreement also says it will be performed according to the MA Lemon Law Standards.

    You can't make this shit up!

    This is simply outrageous, unconscionable action on the part of GM, Chevy and the BBB.

    I'm stunned in the state of MA, with a strong consumer oriented Attorney General and State Senator, that GM can get away with this.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. GaryO

    GaryO NES Member

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    At this point I would hire a plane towing a banner over the Dealership during Presidents day weekend saying that they are crooks or something to that effect.
     
  19. Matt-CZ

    Matt-CZ

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    BBB is old timey yelp. They have no power to help you.
     
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  20. richc

    richc NES Member

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    Sent to the chief legal counsel at the BBB:

    "If it is indeed the position of the BBB Auto Line that settlements arranged through the BBB are not enforceable in court, and are entirely voluntarily on the part of the auto manufacturer, where is such a disclosure made in the BBB agreement to arbitrate (or settlement)? Further, please cite any legal authority or arbitration rules for the proposition that if the manufacturer chooses not to perform a settlement agreement on time, that the consumer must give the manufacturer additional time or the settlement is considered null and void. Note that we do not contend that there is any obligation on the part of the BBB Auto Line to directly enforce the settlement agreement, but we also don't expect it to undermine it either."
     
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  21. Fixxah

    Fixxah NES Member

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    I hope someone doxxes all the execs at obama motors to expose what us in their closets. This is a scam they must have pulled on hundreds of victims in "MySon's" shoes. I will continue to never buy a gm product.
     
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  22. richc

    richc NES Member

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    John, you're a friend and know me pretty well. I think most of time you'd agree I'm about as easy going as it gets. I value friends and family. Little gets me ruffled.

    This has me ruffled. Badly. GM is being a bully and I don't let anyone bully my kids. Period.

    I'm a man of my word. I expect others to be as well. If not it gets personal.

    As someone else pointed out I want a pound of their flesh for my son. And I'm willing to fight.

    The good news is we have the family resources to do this and won't miss a meal (or day at the range). And I would not do this unless I was absolutely convinced of the malfeasance on the part of GM.

    Most Lemon Law cases end up being arguments over whether the vehicle is a lemon or not. That's not a question here. The car is a lemon. Was declared so months ago. OK, shit happens.

    But what has happened since is unconscionable. GM is being a bully because somewhere on a spreadsheet an MBA has figured out that this path of behavior saves them money.

    And it's because, as you point out John, very few people have the resources or will to fight.

    Me... I'm going to the wall. IDGAF...

    Rich





     
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  23. AHM

    AHM NES Member

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    How many Lemon Law cases has this lawyer handled?
    Does he list it as a specialty of his practice?
     
  24. Misfitmike63

    Misfitmike63 NES Member

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    Wow! Just read through this whole thread, and sent it along to a friend, who just last year had issues with his 2500 6.0 gas Denali. GM bought it back, and got him into a year newer diesel 2500 Denali.

    I’ll reply with what he says
     
  25. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon NES Member

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    If things start to get really bad, I would FedEx a letter directly to Mary Barra. Not a threatening one, just informing her on the nincompoopery that's costing her money at the lower levels. You'd be surprised. Specifically FedEx overnight, with signature on delivery to her office.
     
  26. Garys

    Garys NES Member

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    As if she'd care. She's been chopping off and selling whole parts of the company in order to maintain "profitability." She acts as if her job is to liquidate the entire company one subsidiary at a time.

     
  27. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon NES Member

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    She would care that money and time is being wasted. If the customer got a lawyer, clearly things are not going to go well in GM's favor. Now would be a great time to make nice, before this becomes a viral PR nightmare.
     
  28. richc

    richc NES Member

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    Thank you for your suggestion. With all due respect she does not give a shit about an individual consumer. She's so far above and beyond anything that happens at these levels. Most CEO's are the same way.

    I was friendly with the CEO of a large, well known software company. I knew him when he was a lowly sales manager. Among our group he would say that he was so far removed from the day to day operational stuff that happened in his company. Not that he didn't care, he just couldn't take his eye off the 8 ball and do things that were important for the company at his level. No ego here, nice guy. Just fact.

    He's retired now enjoying is many hundreds of millions. Invests a little here or there. Takes great family vacations and enjoys life.

     
  29. boiler_eng

    boiler_eng

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    The unfortunate part is most lack either the means or the will to see it to the end. Choosing to not assert getting their due because they are afraid of drawing the other side's ill will.

    The bully will balk when they realize that you aren't giving up. Of course that may be after an unreasonable amount of time where it is sitting on someone's desk at GM that would rather hide than solve a problem. Someone will just walk up, look at the case and say "WTF why is this still open, just cut the F'ing check" then have your son sign something saying he won't tell anyone they gave in.

    I know a number of people who have lived their entire life never having walked up to someone, shook their hand, looked them square in the eye, and calling them on their BS. Its a pity, it tends to help set people straight. Best of luck making this as expensive as possible for them.
     
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  30. Super99Z

    Super99Z NES Member

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    The BBB is a joke, it exists to make consumers feel warm and fuzzy. GM is a huge account for them, they will do whatever GM asks.
     
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