Glock mag ambi cut pre ban status

[neum69]

Okay, folks - I'm hoping to get into the world of Glocks, and after crawling through the long and winding thread MA: Identifying Pre-Ban Glock Mags, I just want to make sure I'm understanding the Mass legality of Glock mags with the ambi cut (and greater than 10 capacity).

I understand that the ambi cut is the silver square in the middle of the mag's front (ref annotated picture below). Based on the thread it seems the consensus is that these are never pre-ban, and are thus never legal for a non-LEO to possess. I'm quoting a couple of the posts that conclude this. Also my independent research over the last day or so seems to be that the ambi cut was introduced sometime in the mid 2000's, or in any case, after the start of the federal AWB.

So - my question is - does anybody think these are legal to possess in Mass, and if so do you have a factual basis for your point of view?

Link

Don't forget that mags that have the ambi cut out in the front - NOT the gen 4 ambi - are also post ban.

The original G21sf used to have an ambi magazine. It was a different type of catch that was built into the front of the mag as a plastic cut out. It has been discontinued.

Mags for other calibers were made with this G21sf type ambi cut out even though no guns besides the first G21sf had that type of ambi mag release.

Link

So if it has the metal thing in the middle (ambi-mag?) but not bilateral cutouts, so called type 3 or 3rd generation (among other names Ive seen online) are any of those pre-ban?

No.

 

[Len-2A Training]

That center cut-out was not implemented until the 1st "SF" models were released to market. IIRC this was in the 2005-2006 timeframe. The 2-notch mags are even newer than that, not made until the Gen 4s hit the market (don't know when that was but post-2006).

To be pre-ban mags must be mfd on/prior to 9/13/1994. Thus, there is no such thing as a pre-ban Glock mag with the center cut-out.

 

[neum69]

Thanks, Len.

 

[jungley]

That center cut-out was not implemented until the 1st "SF" models were released to market. IIRC this was in the 2005-2006 timeframe. The 2-notch mags are even newer than that, not made until the Gen 4s hit the market (don't know when that was but post-2006).

To be pre-ban mags must be mfd on/prior to 9/13/1994. Thus, there is no such thing as a pre-ban Glock mag with the center cut-out.

Technically, there is such a thing...anyone could start with a pre-ban magazine lacking the notch and and then cut out a notch from it and it would still be a pre-ban magazine.

According to the ATF, the act of cutting a notch out of the magazine does not count as a new construction, so it would still be a legal pre-ban:

If the magazine has minor modifications performed, such as cutting
an additional slot for a different style of magazine release, and
it still functions in the original firearm for which it was
designed, we do not believe that it would be considered a new
magazine.

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter88.txt

 

[Glockster30]

That center cut-out was not implemented until the 1st "SF" models were released to market. IIRC this was in the 2005-2006 timeframe. The 2-notch mags are even newer than that, not made until the Gen 4s hit the market (don't know when that was but post-2006).

To be pre-ban mags must be mfd on/prior to 9/13/1994. Thus, there is no such thing as a pre-ban Glock mag with the center cut-out.

Technically, there is such a thing...anyone could start with a pre-ban magazine lacking the notch and and then cut out a notch from it and it would still be a pre-ban magazine.

According to the ATF, the act of cutting a notch out of the magazine does not count as a new construction, so it would still be a legal pre-ban:

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter88.txt

What Len is stating is that Glock never manufactured a pre-ban mag with two notches.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What Len is stating is that Glock never manufactured a pre-ban mag with two notches.

Correct. One could modify them as they please, it might raise unpleasant questions if the wrong person gets curious however.

 

[Individualist]

Here you go...

https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/4944-MA-Identifying-Pre-Ban-Glock-Mags


https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6184974&postcount=21

 

[Len-2A Training]

7 & 8 above are NOT necessarily Post-ban based strictly on what you see in the picture.

I've posted source info on that in the long thread and explain it in more detail in my MA Gun Law Seminar.

I know that "ex-spurts" claim those pictures are solid proof, but they simply aren't solid proof.

 

[Individualist]

I agree with that Len. I just re-read that piece towards the end of the long thread, and the difference in what was included in the Federal AWB description vs. what was omitted in the MA ban. A case can be made that 7 and 8 may be pre-ban.

Personally however I would not use any Glock mag > 10 in MA unless it was type #1, 2 or 3. Due to the lack of well documented proof or confirmation from Glock for ANY of the types, IMHO one can make a more persuasive argument for the first three than the last two. So to me they are for lack of a better term "safer".

Of course... use at your own risk, past performance is no indication for future performance, your mileage may vary, yadda, yadda...

 

[nstassel]

4 is open and shut pre ban. 7 and 8 are where the gray area lies.

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[Len-2A Training]

4 is open and shut pre ban. 7 and 9 are where the gray area lies.

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OK, you sucked me in. #9 is actually a "white area" as not in the picture!

So folks should be warned that invisible Glock mags may be deemed pre or post-ban by an off the rails LEO, or a know-it-all gun dealer/instructor!

 

[nstassel]

Sorry fixed it

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[Cabin Fever]

Where is the picture of the u notch mag with LE/GOVT ONLY markings? That showed me that almost anything could be pre or post ban.

 

[Romokid]

Is this the one you are looking for, I originally saw these mags for sale on ARFCOM and that was the largest pic the guy had in his ad. If you click on it and enlarge it you can make out the wording under the 9mm.

 

[Point37]

Here you go...

https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/4944-MA-Identifying-Pre-Ban-Glock-Mags


https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6184974&postcount=21

In that NES thread all the photobucket links are broken so I don't know how people are supposed to find the info they need so these questions will continue...i thought 1-4 were preban...5 would be post ban if it was a 15 rounder (but it's a cripplemag) and the 6-8 were post ban...

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[Romokid]

The problem with #7 & #8 is without seeing the the front of the mag it's hard to tell. 8 looks like it may have the ambi window in the front in which case (to me) it is post ban, but without the ambi window #7 could be pre. There were a few of those mags around. As Len has said many times in threads, even Glock can not tell exactly which is which.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Where is the picture of the u notch mag with LE/GOVT ONLY markings? That showed me that almost anything could be pre or post ban.

No U-notch "standard capacity" mags were post-ban. Apparently some U-notch 3x rd mags may be post-ban and illegal to possess in MA.

As for the pictures and "positive identity" of post-ban mags, they simply are not accurate. This stuff won't die. I'll not waste my time posting links but you can find out why if you search NES or you can take my Mass Gun Law Seminar and see/read it for yourself.