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Glock 19 or Glock 17?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MassachussettsMosinNagant, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain

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    You'll come around to Glock... everyone eventually prays at the altar of Gaston.
     
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  2. citoriguy

    citoriguy NES Member

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    Sweet - can’t wait to see another Shield in the classifieds!

    Kidding - as long as you’re happy and comfortable with the purchase, that’s all that matters. Do post some pics of the rifle, please.
     
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  3. boscru

    boscru NES Member

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    agree--.45 dont own a glock, but shot a friend's 30. nice!!!! can imagine a full size would be even better
     
  4. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    Why? It sucks? Felt great in hand and the trigger pull while not quite great. It wasn't too bad. I'm sure you can mod it up nice.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Love the Mauser.


    Hope it don't have any of our boys souls on it's resume. I haven't bought an Axis gun for that reason but it's probably a deluded reasoning lol.
     
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  5. daekken

    daekken NES Member

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    I was going to say how the heck did one get an all matching Mauser + Shield for $800, but I see the Mauser's been sporterized, that explains it. First thought was maybe a Mitchell's Mauser. A true matching unmolested Mauser usually fetches around $1000 last I checked; that explains the value difference.

    >> "Pre-ban" Glock
    No such thing.
     
  6. daekken

    daekken NES Member

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    When G19s are available in MA for $350 (I paid that in 2017), it's really not much of a price difference, especially if you factor in the work a Shield needs to be sufficient; I think the Glock ends up being cheaper. Factor in $6-$12 magazines, too, for more savings. That said, I will take my CZ or P226 over the Glock in terms of "fun."
     
  7. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    Where can I find Brand New Glock 19s for 350? Sign me up lol. Of course if you are referring to used you gotta also factor that a used M&P 9 is probably the price of a Taylor Ham and Egg lol.

    But I do agree with you guys. I'm not saying the M&P is as good as a Glock 19. But it's 300 less and I can actually buy it without having to drive to a different cops house every 2 days until I find a decent Glock. Half of which look like they were on 6 tours in Afghanistan and they want 300 more then they paid because they have a "mod" which in actuality is a 60 dollar sight kit.
     
  8. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    I might buy a non molested stock eventually. Considering Mausers are 4 digit serial numbers, it means thousands were made with the same exact number. Be a long shot but you never know. Odds are it won't be matching Serial but it'll look fantastic. And at 300 in, I still think it sits as a 600 dollar rifle. Especially considering it's all matching numbers. That's fairly rare even in molested form.

    I can't wait to shoot it. Haven't fired a Mauser yet.
     
  9. daekken

    daekken NES Member

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    1.) Unless you're a LEO with Blue Label pricing, you're not getting a new one for $350. But you can a.) get a used one for $350 and mail it to Glock in GA who will do a free complete refurbishment for just the cost shipping. When my G19 came back every part except the barrel, frame, and slide had been replaced--even the sights. Three pages of updated parts Just the price of shipping...and I had it back 7 days after mailing it. b.) Not $350, but for about "regular" pricing if you know the way you can still get a new Glock, legally. Of all the brand new Glocks in the classifieds, do you really think they're all from LEOs? Those of us who always post "ignore the damn list" know why--because a resourceful LTC holder can get whatever they want (obv. mag capacity is still an issue). But, for obvious reasons, those of us who know aren't going to post about it in an open forum that the AG's office is known to monitor. The low-knowledge/low-effort LTC holders are gonna buy a Gen 2 or pay the "MA premium."

    2.) If you look at total cost, if you add the near mandatory upgrades to a used Shield to make it "okay" into the cost, it's probably not much less than a $350 Glock. Then factor in the fact on sale you can get Glock magazines for $6, with regular Magpul price being about $12 per magazine. Pretty easy to come out ahead on the Glock and in my opinion it's far superior to a Shield.

    Some people like Shields and that's fine, it's a matter of personal preference. I have fired three different Shields in different configurations (sights, triggers, etc.) and I say unequivocally that they are the second worst handgun I have ever fired. Lots of people like em, more power to them. There are plenty of people that don't like Glock grip angles, or whatever either. I don't love Glock but the reliability, sheer volume of aftermarket support, and customer service makes them a sort of "de facto" standard (outside of MA, anyway). If I try a CZ PCR and like it better, I will probably sell my Gen 5 Glock if I get a good price for it.
     
  10. daekken

    daekken NES Member

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    There is nothing wrong with sporterized, per se, as long as one paid accordingly and know what they have. The deed is done, typically, depending on what was done. For example, if drilled and tapped, or something; it's happened, accept it. Something like aftermarket sights, you can replace those back to original, usually.

    Other than my M1s, my Mauser is my favorite milsurp (just ahead of my Lee-Enfield) and with the recent 200gr Nosler hand loads I've been making, easily holds x-ring at 100 yds on an SR-1.
     
  11. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    If you sell your Gen 5 Glock, please let me know. Is it a 19 or 17? And thanks for the advice. But where can you find the used ones for 350? I've looked at the classifieds here and people want like 100 dollars more than what MSRP is. I thought I was at village sports lol. People asking 630 just because it has a pre ban mag that I didn't ask for.

    Also are you talking Gen 1 and Gen 2 for 350 because I don't like them. I like Gen 4 and 5 best. Of course beggers can't be choosers.

    But that's a great idea to have Glock service it. They service their guns for free? I didn't know they had the Ruger stimulus package in place. In what instances do they replace the barrel? Is it only if their is poor bore or will they replace it for minor defects like say pits or scuffs? What was up with yours?

    At 350, you can't go wrong.


    The Mauser was the shining star of today imo. I am in love with it. For 300. Even with the molested stock. Pretty good score.
     
  12. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain

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    Just get any gen, replace parts yourself (if it's even necessary) , undercut trigger guard, talon grips, and Dawson sights. Instant shooter.
     
  13. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    I knew it looked off, just didn't know exactly what was off. But glad you filled the gap. My main thing when buying a WW2 Era Rifle is the provenance. I love the matching serial numbers and that it was a service rifle and not a civilian rifle as shown by the cartooshes.


    I actually like it to hold like this too, It makes it lighter. Guess that's the reasoning. But still what kind a knucklehead down the road of the guns life would chop and file the guns stock? Like for crying out loud lol. But Hey. They weren't always collectible I guess. Their were millions of them and I assume half were made into end tables and used for hunting boar in the snow.


    Can I have your opinion on something though? I priced a non molested stock for 200. It has beautiful cartoush markings. It has a different serial number of course. But it will be complete. That'd put me at a 500 dollar investment. Worth the buy to make it original or should I just keep it the way it is?

    I think I will end up eventually buying an original stock to have both. I actually prefer the way it is to hold and probably shoot. But I wouldn't mind having it original.
     
  14. daekken

    daekken NES Member

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    It was a Gen 2 G19. The "lead" was via the Green Members Only section of the forum. A vendor was selling a stack of them and another green member gave us a "heads up." I "upgraded" to a Gen5 since I am left handed and the ambi slide lock and ambi mag release were worth it to me.

    When I first got it, it would occasionally fail to eject. It was an old NYPD gun--my guess is the guy that owned it shot it only for qualifying and it probably had the original recoil spring. I called Glock per an armorer's suggestion and talked to a rep who said to mail it in. Seven days later it came back with three pages of new parts. On the form they had (might be different now) you could pay for refinishing or a new barrel or slide. I don't think they'll do that for free unless it's a warranty situation for a defect vs. just wear, but who knows. My Gen5 has never failed, I've used it USPSA matches, etc. For me, it's a tool.
     
  15. daekken

    daekken NES Member

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    Plenty of people modify their historical pieces to make them more enjoyable. People put Tech Sights on SKSs, non-permanent scopes on things, etc.

    If the stock works for you and you enjoy it, no need to change it. I would say from an aesthetic perspective the correct stock looks better. Doesn't necessarily shoot better. A few people here have said they swap truly nice stock sets off of rifles when they go shooting or into "rough conditions" and then put the original stocks back on for display; I'd be worried about loosening it up over time (think M1 Garand lock up).

    Not quite the same, but for my Saiga I swapped out the railed handguards it came with for some East German surplus. It doesn't necessarily shoot any better, but those handguards have some history and I like the look better.

    Barring anything else that might have been done, $500 would still be a good deal to me.
     
  16. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    My apologies, had a brain fart. Not sure why I called it the Shield. It's actually just the M&P 9 2.0 It's not a compact. It's a full size. Pretty big gun in the hand. about the size of a G19 - G17 i'd say.
     
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  17. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    I had the idea to that with my M1 Garand. It's got a borderline flawless stock and is also a matching number. It's a greek expiditionary force M1. Known as a Greek Return. It's in fantastic shape. It has the insignia of a Greek soldier on the strap. I feel guilty to even shoot it.

    But i take the strap off and put about 20 or so through her every now and then. Keep her happy.


    I had the idea to get a crappy looking beat up stock just for shooting it. But like you said, constantly switiching them will cause the gun to become loose. And so long as i'm not dropping it or being rough. It'll most likely remain fine.


    I really need a Lee Enfield next. Or the grail... 1903. They have become hard to get though. Wish I was a Boomer. Lived in the days of the 100 dollar 1903. Musta been a joy.
     
  18. PappyM3

    PappyM3 NES Member

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    Only because of preban mag availability. If MA were a free state (mag-wise), it’d be M&P 9 all day.
     
  19. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    Lol, but no, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    -Mike
     
  20. SERE

    SERE NES Life Member NES Member

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    I have knelt, not prayed. Gaston is in my safe by is outnumbered by Mr. Browning. [wink]
     
  21. dw617

    dw617 NES Member

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    FYI, The concept of "numbers matching" does not exist in the M1 Garand or USGI Milsurp world. Without going into detail, the best you're going to get are manufacturers marks and drawing numbers / heat lots which align to a certain serial number range. Changes are you have a mixmaster Garand, like 99% of Garand owners.
     
  22. PappyM3

    PappyM3 NES Member

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    I meant for me. For me it’d be M&P 9 all day. The only reason I’d buy a Glock in a free state is because it’d be $350 with the blue label program and I could use it as practice for an issued pistol.

    But I do think that preban mag availability has something to do with the consistent Glock popularity in MA. Around the country, Glock has been losing market share as more polymer framed alternatives have been coming out with improvements. Don’t get me wrong, they still have a large market share though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  23. daekken

    daekken NES Member

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    I don't see a disproportionate amount of Beretta 92s, for which there are ample prebans. Or P226s, for that matter, etc.

    I'm not sure I agree. I always saw people falling into two camps with regard to Glocks in MA (in general):

    1.) Those that find them a bit mystical because of the semi-scarcity. They think they are better than they really are, and are some sort of Excalibur or rara avis. A sort of mystique.
    2.) The "just as good" crowd. Those that are like, "it's OK, I didn't really want a Glock anyway, my Shield is just as good, Glocks are overrated!" Presumably because they don't know/won't get one, so they try to justify to themselves that it's no loss to them.

    I know a few people that are definitely in the # 2 camp.

    I'm not either. I understand and respect Glock, but my G19 is not a pistol I get "excited" about taking to the range. For me it's a tool. Reliable carry, cheap accessories, etc.
     
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  24. PappyM3

    PappyM3 NES Member

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    I think both of those factors you list are at play. I definitely fall into the #2 camp for sub-compacts, but I have owned and shot Glocks. I intentionally chose a Shield over a G26, and will likely try a P365 while still avoiding the G26. For compacts and full size pistols though, I don’t think newer pistols are worth the hit in round count in MA.

    Regarding the 92 and the P226, those are both older, full metal guns and not the new polymer frames guns that are taking market share. I think full size steel guns are a different buyer. Around the country, more people are switching from Glocks to other, newer polymer frames guns like the M&P 9, P320, and others. Glock still has a huge market share, but it’s been reduced. I don’t see that happening as much in MA aside from sub-compacts that have a lower round count magazine anyway.

    I also agree with your last paragraph. I sold my Gen3 G19 because I don’t like the sights or the grip angle. Well, I built a P80 recently because oh well if the grip angle is weird, it’s a tool and it can hold 15 rounds.
     
  25. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    Nope, that's not it, too, not even close. Look at most MA gun noobs, most of them aren't going to pay $80-120 to a rapist for a shitty U notch preban mag anyways . Losing some market share, sure, because that's inevitable with more choices in the marketplace, but there's a metric shit ton of reasons why it's pretty much the bedrock-standard of polymer framed pistols.

    I can go to like 4 shops in a one hour radius of my house, and in a pinch basically get at least 75% of the parts in the gun. The same cannot be said for nearly anything else, Sig is about the
    only one that comes close. (because over the years they've at least made half assed attempts at expanding support and training armorers. ) Everyone else's product might as well be made of unicorn farts. The aftermarket for most other brands is dog shit (or completely nonexistent) compared to Glock. Some of the other brands even restrict OEM parts distribution or availability.

    Fun example- I bought an early G42 a few years ago and I had a trigger resetting issue during dry firing. (although it's worth mentioning, in live fire the gun worked perfectly, every time) I left it with one of my dealers and he was like "My glock rep/armorer is coming this week he'll look at it, instead of having to pay to send it back." The rep came and fixed my gun while he was there (upgraded trigger bar) and left me an extra magazine for the trouble.

    Also it's one of the few guns that you can pretty much do everything short of removing the sights with ONE TOOL, and even a doesn't like gunsmithing type like me can take it apart and put it back together without breaking it. I can change parts to suit my needs, and rather easily, at that.

    I'm not a glock bigot either, hell I have two P320s and a Phantom 2, and I used to own most of the HK USP product line, and at one point, a ton of Sig P series, but if you think it's about "preban mag compatibility" then you're smoking some of the reeeealy good stuff. I'm not saying the guns are perfect either, far from it (the ergonomics are terrible for some peoples hands) but there's a lot of reasons why they're basically the Estwing hammer of semiautomatic handguns. They're everywhere, and they work, and they usually don't f*** up- and you can get them in like 30 different sizes, calibers, and configurations.... and none of them are terribly expensive.... and in the past few years their QC has still been "above average" although since sandy hook that's not exactly a tough bar to beat.


    -Mike
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  26. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    Blah, blah, blah, we all know why people love Glocks.



    Die hard jokes aside, pre-bans are definitely part of the appeal. They're great guns, accessories are cheap and readily accessible, even in stock at your local FFL, you never have to worry if it'll go bang (cough**Sig**cough), AND you can get pre-bans.

    I'll add that I find Glocks easier to conceal cause they're flat and don't have do-hickies hanging off them that makes the holster bigger or the wearing less comfortable. I'm loving carrying the G43X.
     
  27. Ranger007

    Ranger007 NES Member

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    Get 1 of each!
     
  28. rudiewhitebwoy

    rudiewhitebwoy NES Life Member NES Member

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    G17 was my first handgun. I had a G17, G19 & G26. Eventually getting a G21, G30 & G36. Even with the Pearce Plus One mag extension I couldn't draw that G36 and fire accurately. I have small hands but thick fingers, a symptom of making a living with my back and not my brain. A few years back, in an effort to streamline my caliber's I sold of all my 9mm. I was trying to get my wife and daughters to do the same, but they won't give up her damn 92FS's [hmmm]. I never liked my G19 and my G26 even less. I've since sold my G36. My G30 just sits in the safe. I now have (3) G21's. G21 is my year round daily carry. I been thinking about getting another G17, one of the few guns I wish I'd never sold.

    Here's the Glock family before the break-up.

    upload_2019-10-9_23-1-27.png

    I sold that Keltec Sub 2000 with my G-19 and (4) 33rd pre-ban mags.
    I replaced the Keltec with a Kriss Super V which took Glock 45 ACP mags.
    I sold the Kriss too, fun gun but sucked to clean.
     

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