I do like my 45. And it fits in the holsters for the 19/23 alsoG19x is more like a gen 4.5
G45 is the greatest pistol Glock ever made
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Glock 17 or VP 9 ? Owners
- Thread starter BigAl23
- Start date
I have one or two of pretty much every common full size 9mm pistol. The vp9 is ok, certainly nothing special. It is pretty much HK's answer to the Glock 17. It is well made and reliable, like everything else HK makes. HK sucks to deal with if you need parts or have a warranty problem. Glock 17 is pretty much the standard by which all others are judged for polymer 9mm's, can't go wrong with it. My favorite full size 9mm is the P226, followed closely by the 92fs/m9. They are classics and shoot well and just feel better. I shoot a lot of da revolvers so the da/sa doesn't bother me at all. Some people have a hard time with da/sa pistols.
Edit: One cool thing about the 92fs/m9 is that Beretta's .22 conversion kit actually works incredibly well, makes any of my 92's into one of the most reliable .22 pistols I have. Eats just about any cheap .22 ammo as well.
Edit: One cool thing about the 92fs/m9 is that Beretta's .22 conversion kit actually works incredibly well, makes any of my 92's into one of the most reliable .22 pistols I have. Eats just about any cheap .22 ammo as well.
beaker
NES Member
I have both, and i like them both a lot. I dont have a problem with the mag release on the VP9 ad some do. But i shoot my Glocks way more, but i have many glocks. The VP9 is an extremely ergonomic gun, easy to grip and hold especially for people with medium sized hands. Try them both and decide. Cant go wrong, but the mags tend to be expensive for HK. I would a
Own a G45 but the opportunity hasnt represented itself yet.
Own a G45 but the opportunity hasnt represented itself yet.
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Bore axis and slide weight higher on VP9 vs glock, so feels snappier if you shoot one after the other. So glocks have quicker follow-up shots for me. But I went with VP9 for many of the reasons already listed by others.
No G17. But I do own a VP9 and a G34. I don't carry either. They are just range guns. I am not an expert and will not argue with anyone here. My 2 cents are below.
I love my VP9. I've owned it for... 4 years maybe. Something like that at least. I have 3k - 4k rounds through it. Used it in both IDPA and USPSA. I will never sell it. I like the trigger and the grips once I got them set up in a way that fits my hands. It came with a different back and side pieces for the grip to swap out as you like. I did not know until reading other replies to this thread that the magazine release was "gay" on the VP9. I guess it just means I am not a bigot (lol) because I like it the way it is.
The G34 is just an amazing pistol for the range. The sight radius is amazing. The weight is perfect as well for me. I will load up 147 grain FMJ for plinking and it a lot of fun. I had to buy a aftermarket Zev Ultimate trigger through to get to this point with it. I did not like the factory trigger. That alone might be a deal-breaker for most people. I also bought a wolf aftermarket barrel to shot reloads so the chamber is fully supported and also allow me to shoot cast boolits. That crap about the glock bulge is something I want nothing to do with.
If I wanted a nice gun out of the box I would buy a VP9.
If I had some extra cash and was able to buy some aftermarket items and get a better pistol I would buy the G34. Taking that one step further. If I could do it all over again I would buy a G35 and buy extra barrels for other calibers. I am too far down the G34 road though. Live and learn and when possible learn from other's mistakes.
I love my VP9. I've owned it for... 4 years maybe. Something like that at least. I have 3k - 4k rounds through it. Used it in both IDPA and USPSA. I will never sell it. I like the trigger and the grips once I got them set up in a way that fits my hands. It came with a different back and side pieces for the grip to swap out as you like. I did not know until reading other replies to this thread that the magazine release was "gay" on the VP9. I guess it just means I am not a bigot (lol) because I like it the way it is.
The G34 is just an amazing pistol for the range. The sight radius is amazing. The weight is perfect as well for me. I will load up 147 grain FMJ for plinking and it a lot of fun. I had to buy a aftermarket Zev Ultimate trigger through to get to this point with it. I did not like the factory trigger. That alone might be a deal-breaker for most people. I also bought a wolf aftermarket barrel to shot reloads so the chamber is fully supported and also allow me to shoot cast boolits. That crap about the glock bulge is something I want nothing to do with.
If I wanted a nice gun out of the box I would buy a VP9.
If I had some extra cash and was able to buy some aftermarket items and get a better pistol I would buy the G34. Taking that one step further. If I could do it all over again I would buy a G35 and buy extra barrels for other calibers. I am too far down the G34 road though. Live and learn and when possible learn from other's mistakes.
If i were going to get a pistol strictly for the range it would be a G34 MOS. You can go with a million and one choices for standard sights or slap on the red dot of your choice. Youll get a longer sight radius and a little more weight out front to help with recoil. On top of all this there are a metric shit ton of triggers, holsters, and tactical cup holders so you can #haveityourway.
this is propagated ad nauseum and inaccurate
momentum is conserved. a 9mm coming from a glock or a VP9 produces the same momentum assuming velocity is the same, which it is. so why does a VP9 feel snappy? because the cycling time is shorter due to a heavier recoil spring. why does HK use such a heavy recoil spring? because they use an overly heavy striker spring. a striker fire action "cocks on closing", as oppose to a hammer fired pistol (TDA) which "cocks on opening". it's relevant because on an SFA the recoil spring MUST overpower the striker spring or else the pistol will fail to return to battery. this was an issue with VP9's especially when running suppressed resulting in more gas pushing out the ejection port and added muzzle weight interfering with slide movement (the latter due to the barrel hood pushing upward on the slide). HK remedied the problem by using an insanely strong RSA, which again shortens cycling time. don't believe me? compare the RSA weight between a VP9 and a G17. then remove the slides and try cocking the strikers by hand. the VP9 has a stupid heavy striker spring. i'm not sure why but i wouldn't worry about light strikes on a VP9 and i've never heard of it.
the effects of cycling time on perceived recoil is best highlighted by direct blowback 380's which often feel "snappier" than equally weighted 9mm browning actions, as the latter can benefit from a softer recoil spring due to delayed unlocking.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Get both
You guys are entering a dumb semantics extension cord mess battle.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
it is incontrovertible that a VP9 has a different (Read as, "worse") bore axis, whether this makes a difference or not is up in the air.
I think what he is getting at is that the physics don't change (because of the law of conservation of energy) but that isn't entirely true wrt "felt" recoil. The "recoil impulse energy vs time" thing is different on different handguns. This can make recoil "feel" different. I actually find Glocks snappier, but the sights return faster, frankly, than most others. There's even differences between guns. For example my Gen 3 G34 is "snappier" than my Gen 5 because the Gen5 has a dual spring recoil system, and this literally changes how the gun feels during recoil. Guns like a VP9, most sigs, etc, tend to have a "lumpier" or slower recoil, but results are going to vary depending on whose hands the gun is in. I have a friend who is a lurker on this board and never posts. If you watch him shoot any of these handguns, stuff like "bore axis" is almost meaningless to him, because his hands are big enough that he can easily control any handgun. His split times shooting a bucking bronco high bore axis pistol, like an USPc .45 vs a Glock 19, lets say, aren't going to be much different because of how damn big his hands and forearms are.
chris_1001
NES Member
I have both.
VP9: has a really good trigger! Way better stock than my modified glock 17. The paddle release to me is a non issue. I can work it fine. Ergos are better for me and it’s more accurate than my self customized G17. But to complex to work on/fix at home
G17: simple basic gun. Have over 12,000 rounds through it. Two hiccups. Needed a recoil spring. And had a connector break. Less than $30 to fix both issues. It’s just a good solid workhorse. Nothing fancy. Not a fancy gun. Not a tack driver. Just a good overall gun.
I’ll prob sell my VP9 and keep the Glock. No need to sell. And nothing against it, but the glock and VP are sitting while I shoot my CZ’s. But as I said, the Glock wins as a workhorse.
VP9: has a really good trigger! Way better stock than my modified glock 17. The paddle release to me is a non issue. I can work it fine. Ergos are better for me and it’s more accurate than my self customized G17. But to complex to work on/fix at home
G17: simple basic gun. Have over 12,000 rounds through it. Two hiccups. Needed a recoil spring. And had a connector break. Less than $30 to fix both issues. It’s just a good solid workhorse. Nothing fancy. Not a fancy gun. Not a tack driver. Just a good overall gun.
I’ll prob sell my VP9 and keep the Glock. No need to sell. And nothing against it, but the glock and VP are sitting while I shoot my CZ’s. But as I said, the Glock wins as a workhorse.
Whiskeywon
NES Member
I think this basically comes back around to the truth of the matter. If it fits you and is exceptionally reliable does it really matter? Essentially all service handguns of this nature M&P9 2.0, G17/9, VP9, 509, 320 it's really all the same shit with slight differences. Rent one or find a friend with them. Find which shoots best for you and move along.You guys are entering a dumb semantics extension cord mess battle.
it is incontrovertible that a VP9 has a different (Read as, "worse") bore axis, whether this makes a difference or not is up in the air.
I think what he is getting at is that the physics don't change (because of the law of conservation of energy) but that isn't entirely true wrt "felt" recoil. The "recoil impulse energy vs time" thing is different on different handguns. This can make recoil "feel" different. I actually find Glocks snappier, but the sights return faster, frankly, than most others. There's even differences between guns. For example my Gen 3 G34 is "snappier" than my Gen 5 because the Gen5 has a dual spring recoil system, and this literally changes how the gun feels during recoil. Guns like a VP9, most sigs, etc, tend to have a "lumpier" or slower recoil, but results are going to vary depending on whose hands the gun is in. I have a friend who is a lurker on this board and never posts. If you watch him shoot any of these handguns, stuff like "bore axis" is almost meaningless to him, because his hands are big enough that he can easily control any handgun. His split times shooting a bucking bronco high bore axis pistol, like an USPc .45 vs a Glock 19, lets say, aren't going to be much different because of how damn big his hands and forearms are.
seanc
NES Member
I used to be an all HK all the time snob. And I DO appreciate HK.
that said... in my rapidly approaching old age. I really have come to appreciate Glocks over most others (snub wheel guns too). They are (relatively) cheap to buy. Parts are plentiful and cheap. And any issues I have ever had have been my own fault. A spring does not cost a ton of money and a 8 month wait. Mags are cheap and available. barrels, etc..
now if we were talking about a P9S in 45.. besides the massively tragic naming scheme.. THAT was a thing of beauty! The last of my HKs, the P7M8, the perfect pistol, goes to a new home tomorrow..
that said... in my rapidly approaching old age. I really have come to appreciate Glocks over most others (snub wheel guns too). They are (relatively) cheap to buy. Parts are plentiful and cheap. And any issues I have ever had have been my own fault. A spring does not cost a ton of money and a 8 month wait. Mags are cheap and available. barrels, etc..
now if we were talking about a P9S in 45.. besides the massively tragic naming scheme.. THAT was a thing of beauty! The last of my HKs, the P7M8, the perfect pistol, goes to a new home tomorrow..
I own both...when I wanted to change out the grips on the VP I had to order the specially sized punch that didn’t come with it and got to wait for 2 weeks. Whereas when you make an alteration to a Glock it takes about 5 minutes. Kind of left me with a sour taste. VP9 is a very smooth shooter though my wife keeps it as her night stand gun.
chris_1001
NES Member
Five min for Glock or specialty hk tool? You are doing it wrong.
dcmdon
NES Member
If you want to start talking physics, I'll give it right back at you.
Because the bore axis is higher on the VP9, the lever arm that the force acts on is longer and therefore generates more torque for a given force. More torque means more muzzle flip.
If you want an example of something with a zero length (or close to it) lever arm, look at the Chiappa Rhino. Zero muzzle flip. The recoil is straight back into the hand. No muzzle flip.
The bore axis is significantly lower and YOU CAN FEEL IT on the G17 or 34.
So while the statement that lower bore axis generates lower recoil is false. Like you say.
The statement that lower bore axis creates less muzzle flip and helps you get back on target faster is ABSOLUTELY correct.
The person you replied to said the VP9 feels "snappier" which could be described as a combination of recoil and muzzle flip. And yes, the VP9 does feel "snappier".
Your discussion of recoil and striker springs is spot on. For what its worth, the Glock striker spring is plenty stiff.
I shot IDPA for years with a Glock 34 with a fluff and buff on the internals and a reduced power striker spring (3.5 lbs vs 5.5 lbs stock) and never had any issues with misfires. So while I'd never advocate using anything less than stock strength for a carry gun, the stock spring has proven over more than 50,000 rounds with a 3.5 lb striker spring, to have plenty of safety margin built in.
Varmint
NES Member
Or save $600 and get a CZ. I love the look of P series Legions but the CZs shoot better.
chris_1001
NES Member
I gave up on glocks, my vp9 and my legion 226 for Idpa. I shoot a CZ SP-01 and I hate da/sa triggers (yes, I have some Cajun mods). Other CZs for uspsa and 3-Gun.
Still like my G17. But it sits now.
Shot a friends 320 legion today. I might need to add one to my stable. Really nice.
As someone who has both, imo They're not that much different. I have a Shadow 2 SA and a 226 SAO Legion. They're both firmly neck and neck, the only edge the Shadow has is lower bore axis/greater weight... but both are fun to shoot at the range.
chris_1001
NES Member
I consider them to be vastly different. But my shadow 2 is still da/sa. I have a CZ TSO (SAO) . And it blows away my 226 SAO legion.
Ironically I’m more accurate with my S2 da/sa. Go figure...
Soundwave
NES Member
Obviously some people are way touchier when it comes to triggers. If you're in MA and plan for it to be more than a range toy (and care about pre-ban) just get the Glock. Very happy with my Gen 5 17 MOS
chris_1001
NES Member
I’m a trigger snob. But in a competition it’s never helped me. Lol.
Soundwave
NES Member
First pistol I shot as a kid besides a S&W target .22 was my dad's duty gen 1 Glock 17 with like a 8.5lb trigger pull for the first round. So maybe that's why I'm not THAT much of a snob. I only carry 1911 pattern guns at the moment though lol. But loving my new to me Gen 5 17
dcmdon
NES Member
I'm a trigger snob also.
However, what you need for a slow fire gun (traditional criteria by which triggers are judged. little creep, crisp break, no overtravel) is vastly different than what you need for a practical / defensive gun.
Mushy and smooth is fine if you are trying to shoot fast. What it can't have is a wall. A crisp break is irrelevant as is lack of overtravel.
