1. If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

  2. Dismiss Notice

Global Warming Scam is Crumbling

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by calsdad, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. calsdad

    calsdad NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    37,305
    Likes Received:
    11,852
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA
    It's about time.

    http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...nce-solomon-climate-change-dominoes-fall.aspx

     
    1 person likes this.
  2. calsdad

    calsdad NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    37,305
    Likes Received:
    11,852
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA
    And another one:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan118.html

     
  3. Jose

    Jose Guest

    LOL!!!
     
  4. mikem317

    mikem317

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    14,000
    Likes Received:
    1,511
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I really thought that the Chicagoization of the Great Global Warming Farce was going to be the effort that would push it over the top. Fortunately, Americans are waking up the ruse that it is.
     
  5. zeppelinfromled

    zeppelinfromled

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Somerville, MA
    I still don't understand why so many laymen have such strong opinions about global warming. It's unlikely that most people (myself included) can fully understand all of the arguments presented from both sides and make a truly informed decision. It seems like people are blindly following people with whom they agree on other things, which (IIRC) is something that we don't like here.
     
  6. mikem317

    mikem317

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    14,000
    Likes Received:
    1,511
    Location:
    New Hampshire
  7. WillyJP

    WillyJP

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    40
    Location:
    Way West of Boston
    You don't seem to give your fellow citizens enough credit. Most people can recognize a scam of such proportions. To some degree the science doesn't matter anymore since it has been so bastardized by the global warming alarmists. The hardcore left has latched themselves onto this agenda with the hope of taxing (thus gaining control over) large swaths of the economy.


     
  8. zeppelinfromled

    zeppelinfromled

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Somerville, MA
    I could say the same to you. I don't think you give your fellow citizens enough credit. Not everyone is in it to gain control of the economy. Some people actually want what's best for the people (gasp, I know). I know plenty of people who have nothing to gain from higher taxes (in fact, they have things to lose from higher taxes), who believe the science.

    The fact of the matter is that no one knows what will happen. Anyone who claims that they know what will happen with regard to global warming (either that it will happen or that it won't) is either lying or fooling themselves.
     
  9. Jamie

    Jamie

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,141
    Likes Received:
    855
    Location:
    West Brookfield, MA
    I'm going outside to burn some tires.
     
  10. theGringo

    theGringo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,017
    Likes Received:
    1,367
    Location:
    Western Mass
    We call such people "unwitting dupes" or, less charitably, "useful idiots".
     
    Cap'n Mike likes this.
  11. zeppelinfromled

    zeppelinfromled

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Somerville, MA
    Many of these people have PhDs in various scientific fields. I suspect that they believe the science because of the merits of the science, not because they were duped into it by a politician.
     
  12. Jose

    Jose Guest

    Who appointed them my guardian?

    I don't GAF how educated or knowledgeable they are. They are not my Lords.
     
  13. zeppelinfromled

    zeppelinfromled

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Somerville, MA
    Which is why they can't force you to do anything. But they can still state their opinions on global warming, and try to do what they think is best. Which is exactly what we do. We do what we think is best. I'm just saying that not everyone's motives are sinister.

    ETA: They don't care what you do as long as it doesn't affect them. But if they're right about climate change, it does affect them. So they're not trying to be your guardian, they're trying to be their own guardian.
     
  14. Jose

    Jose Guest

    Many of their ilk are trying their best to force me to do many things that will be injurious to me and to my interests in the name of "protecting the planet"

    Ah, the old socialist saw where anything that anyone does can be tied to an effect on the whole. Bullshit.

    Can we start the violent revolution now already? The list keeps getting longer.
     
  15. theGringo

    theGringo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,017
    Likes Received:
    1,367
    Location:
    Western Mass
    Useful idiots, then.
     
  16. zeppelinfromled

    zeppelinfromled

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Somerville, MA
    What are you thinking of that would be injurious to you? Perhaps we're talking about them doing different things. The things that I'm thinking of that they're trying to do are things like increase fuel efficiency and research alternative forms of energy. I don't have a problem with either of these things, or other similar things. If they try to tell me that I can only drive 10,000 miles a year or I get taxed more, then we have a problem.

    Yeah, the butterfly effect and all that. But I think that it's a bit more valid with pollution. I'm not saying that they should be able to control you or anything like that, but I'm saying that one person's pollution affects another person the same amount as it affects the polluter himself. Whether or not they should be able to legislate our actions is where the disagreement is, IMO.
     
  17. RI_John

    RI_John

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    611
    Location:
    RI
    I am 100% for a STRICT hammer of god regulation on true poisons, like mercury, lead, arsenic, etc. I don't want my kids (or me, for that matter) to have to wonder whether some douche corporation wanted to save a few bucks by dumping his poisons into my water supply. In fact, I would go so far as support the death penalty for executives that knowingly poison water/air to the point where people die from it. Not accidents, like Bhopal, but malfeasance.

    That said, CO2 isn't a poison whatsoever, and thus should not be regulated whatsoever, unless or until is proven to be a poison, like mercury has been.
     
  18. zeppelinfromled

    zeppelinfromled

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Somerville, MA
    Perhaps "smart people who happen to agree on some issues with politicians with whom the firearm enthusiast/libertarian group traditionally disagrees?"

    That's too wordy though.
     
  19. TheIglu

    TheIglu

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Royalston, MA
    I'd rather 50 years from now wake up and hear on the news "Global Warming turns out not to be man-made!" while still being able to breath the air, not rely on other countries for oil, be efficient in our usage of energy and responsible as a whole for keeping the planet liveable than the alternative.
     
    Cap'n Mike likes this.
  20. Mike S

    Mike S NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Messages:
    4,592
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Location:
    The PRM
    I'm wondering what they are going to say after this coming winter as I think the NE is in for a dandy, all of the signs are there.
     
  21. codenamepaul

    codenamepaul

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    100
    Location:
    Warren, MA
    It is obvious that you make a correlation between education and intelligence. This is perhaps a mistake. Many educated people make the same one. They are mutually exclusive in themselves, and coexist all too infrequently.

    It truly is impossible to logically prove that mankind's actions could possibly influence the climate of the planet as a whole. Yes, really. If we all drove 2 mpg trucks and heated our homes with lignite, we could barely put into the air in a lifetime what forest fires and hundreds of volcanos put into the atmosphere every day.
    The science has little merit when taken at its value as science. Really.
     
    Cap'n Mike likes this.
  22. cekim

    cekim NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    29,885
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    Location:
    Clowns->Here<-Jokers
    As others have said - "useful idiots"...

    Good "Science" does not generally require faith as this does...

    Nor does it require ignoring factual evidence which contradicts the theory...

    As already discussed a nauseam in the other thread - this "science" of which you speak is garbage driven by politics and religion and even the people involved with this theory's initial postulation are now coming out and saying this...

    I think your sentence captures this phenomenon nicely:
    "I know plenty of people who have nothing to gain..."

    A hallmark of faith is its viral social nature...
    "I know plenty of good people who believe" in this religion, that religion, this superstition, that superstition...

    Humans love correlation - its hard coded into our brains...

    If good people "do it", then it must be good to do - whatever it is...

    If you let the "science" stand on its own - at best it's inconclusive and the laughable sparsity/error of the recent temperature data in the face of geological time forces you to discount recent measurements...

    At worst, its is invalidated by prior data. Ice cores, radiological data, archeological data, Mars surface temps increasing while ours were without SUVs clogging their roads, etc...

    The "scientists agree" line has been used for a decade and finally "the scientists" are pointing out that no one asked the if they agree and BTW, they don't!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
  23. zeppelinfromled

    zeppelinfromled

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Somerville, MA
    I absolutely think that there's a correlation between education and certain types of intelligence, but we would need to talk about different types of intelligence. Common sense is one type, and I work with professors too often to think that education is correlated to common sense.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, so I don't know if I agree or disagree. I think the science has a lot of merit, but only if you you look at everything. You can't look at what happens when CO2 levels increase drastically, but ignore how much CO2 humans are producing, for instance. And even when you do look at how much CO2 humans are producing, science dictates that you have to admit when you don't have enough information to satisfactorily answer a question. But people (on both sides, myself included sometimes) forget about this, and sometimes make claims that they shouldn't be making, if they were basing everything on science.

    Also, science rarely seeks to prove anything. That's not quite true. Science seeks to prove things, but realizes that it can't prove almost anything. I include the word "almost" in case we're including math.
     
  24. Skald

    Skald

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    7,521
    Likes Received:
    257
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL (AKA a free state)
    I am an avid outdoorsman and love fishing, hunting, diving and when I can, camping.

    I do think whole heartedly that Global Warming is a huge crock of crap, but at the same time would like to see Hammer of God type regulations and punishments that knowingly pollute the water. We already have issues with drinking water and don't need to lose even more.
     
  25. zeppelinfromled

    zeppelinfromled

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Somerville, MA
    This I can agree with, without any qualms.
     
  26. cekim

    cekim NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    29,885
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    Location:
    Clowns->Here<-Jokers
    For the most part, I am there with you...

    There is no question that wanton destruction of resources in this manner needs to be stopped... As many have pointed out, the libertarian view of this from a property rights perspective demands that we hold people accountable when they destroy someone else's property by their actions on their own property through shared resources...

    There is no reason we cannot continue to innovate and reduce waste and pollution, but ceding sovereignty and burdening ourselves with layer upon layer of taxation which only serves to enrich the connected few is reprehensible. Those that do it and those that support it should be treated with equal contempt...

    The connected few cannot oppress the broader population without the support of some large proportion of the masses who agree to oppress themselves and their neighbors...
     
  27. cekim

    cekim NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    29,885
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    Location:
    Clowns->Here<-Jokers
    Very true, and the professors are often some of the worst offenders... [laugh]

    Many of them exist their entire career outside the harsh reality of the real world. Their, sometimes unknowingly, "faith based" constructs are never adequately challenged and continue to grow more irrational and self serving...
     
  28. TomH

    TomH

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    7,658
    Likes Received:
    750
    Location:
    Live Free or Die
    You can be a PhD and still be an idiot. The science simply can't prove one way or another if we've had a significant impact on "global warming". If you can't prove it, how can you say it's a problem? We also can't say that it isn't a problem. But taking action based on lack of knowledge and politics is idiotic. If the science matures enough to actually be able to predict it one way or another and people can agree on the facts that is the time to make decisions and changes. So ice is melting in the north... that proves nothing really. I have news for everyone... there were glaciers covering much of north-east america during the time that humans were first coming to the continent. The ice has been melting ever since. It is only natural that it will continue to do so as we move along on earth's cycle. If science can prove otherwise and the scientific community agrees on something as being factual then I'll buy into it. Until then I believe it is a political and financial scam.
     
  29. EC1

    EC1 NES Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,737
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Location:
    Somewhere

    While there is no argument that man is adding CO2 to the atmosphere, there is the connection with global that is highly suspect. That there is a change in global temperature can be measured, however, it would be wise to first determine if it has happened in the past. IT HAS! In the past million years or so there have been 4 periods where our "beloved" Massachusetts has lain under thousands of feet of ice, certainly colder than it is today. Also, it is important to note that inbetween these glacial periods were warm periods, in fact much warmer than today, more like a climate seen along the northern Florida coast or what may be called a Savannah climate. Certainly not caused by man. From that data. one might conclude that there are periodic warming and cooling periods which occur naturally, the rate of change of which is not known with certainty. From a purely scientific point of view, I would say that we need more data, also the data that are being collected today are insufficient to reach any good hypothesis which can be evaluated. Many researchers do good work, however, you must remember that much of what they undertake has an ulterior motive, that is one of getting funding. So in a competitive world, the more specacular the claims and the more disastrous the results, the easier it is to get funded. Never forget most scientists are driven by self-interest, like virtually everyone else. [wink]
     
  30. cekim

    cekim NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    29,885
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    Location:
    Clowns->Here<-Jokers
    The "science" to verify this is infinitely simpler than that used to demonstrate global warming...

    Taxation, accumulation and centralization of power within government, profit motive of Al Gore and his carbon trading venture, etc...

    It's clear what their real motive here is independent of science. CONTROL and MONEY... (I like money too, but they are writing laws which forcibly redirect wealth to them - that I will not tolerate...)

    Come talk to me when Al Gore has moved into a tent and Micheal Moore has given all his money away....[wink]
     

Share This Page