Gifting firearms from MA to NH

[XDs830fps]

A good friend from MA put me on to this great forum. First time poster. I'm a long time NH resident and pistol permit holder. My Massachusetts aging father would like to gift his firearms to me. 3 hunting rifles one old revolver and an old .22 pistol. None were purchased after 1965 except for 1 shotgun, probably 20 years old. A few were through dealers a few through private purchases. I'm not selling any of them and I plan on eventually gifting them to my son. Here's my question: several of my NH friends (firearms enthusiast) are telling me that since they are relatively old (late 50’s to early 60’s) to just go down to MA get them, have Dad write up a bill of sale, and throw them in my safe, done deal. My initial thought was to drag him and his firearms up to a NH FFL and do a transfer, but these guys say I’m nuts. BTW, my father is not healthy and this whole excursion would be pretty stressful for him. I want to do the right thing, but also don’t want to go through an unnecessary chump move. Please feel free to PM me. Thanks for you help!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Your "friends" are setting you up for Federal Felonies! Fed Law PROHIBITS any transfers between 2 parties that reside in different states, other than inheritance once a person passes on. Also if you don't have a MA NR LTC, you'd be setting yourself up for MA Felonies as well!

You have 2 options that will work for anything mfd 50+ years ago (by S/N):

- Obtain a C&R FFL, cost $30, good for 3 years and allows you to obtain any C&R gun from ANYBODY in ANY state. With this you could take them from your Father, present him with a signed copy of your C&R FFL and enter them in your Bound Book (obligation to Feds for any/all FFLs) when you get home. You still need someone with a MA LTC to be with you to transport them to the state line however.

- Any guns that do not meet the C&R criteria would have to be transferred thru a NH FFL to you, so yes you'd need to bring your Father up to pay you a visit (and he should have a valid LTC) to accomplish this.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[XDs830fps]

Thanks Len-2A Training for your response. Since one firearm does not meet C&R requirements, I will revert to my original plan and engage a NH FFL. As far as my "friends" suggestions, I realize they have little to loose when it comes to those firearms. Anyway, one is a real $hit-for-brains, so I took his suggestion with a grain of salt.
I figure for $20/firearm for transfer, its the smart thing to do. Yes, he does have a valid LTC, so its just a matter of a road trip on one of his good days. Thanks again!

 

[Len-2A Training]

If there are a number of guns, try to negotiate a cheaper xfr rate. They can do 5 guns on one NICS call, unsure about NH POC and paperwork.

 

[drgrant]

Just have him bring (or dump off) the guns at an NH FFL of your choosing and pay for a transfer, and wash your hands of any potential legal problems. Hell if he doesn't want to travel he may even be able to ship the guns to a dealer up there, but honestly that's more BS than just throwing the guns in the car and driving up there.

-Mike

 

[Cabinetman]

If the new owner is a non-prohibited person and has his permit from NH, can't he "borrow" the rifles from his dad and take them to his FFL himself? Say his dad wanted to come to NH to shoot some trap or target shoot. His dad could come up with them without a problem and just leave 'em with his son who would then have them xfered. Right? There's nothing against borrowing rifles. IT's NH after all, not NY or MA. Just seems to be a lot of hubbub about a non-issue. I'm open to being shown that you can't borrow firearms not living in NH myself.

Rome

 

[Kevin_NH]

If the new owner is a non-prohibited person and has his permit from NH, can't he "borrow" the rifles from his dad and take them to his FFL himself? Say his dad wanted to come to NH to shoot some trap or target shoot. His dad could come up with them without a problem and just leave 'em with his son who would then have them xfered. Right? There's nothing against borrowing rifles. IT's NH after all, not NY or MA. Just seems to be a lot of hubbub about a non-issue. I'm open to being shown that you can't borrow firearms not living in NH myself.

New Hampshire law (RSA 159) doesn't restrict firearms transactions between adult relatives or friends who are all non-felons.

Federal Law is the issue, due to crossing state lines.

 

[drgrant]

If the new owner is a non-prohibited person and has his permit from NH, can't he "borrow" the rifles from his dad and take them to his FFL himself? Say his dad wanted to come to NH to shoot some trap or target shoot. His dad could come up with them without a problem and just leave 'em with his son who would then have them xfered. Right? There's nothing against borrowing rifles. IT's NH after all, not NY or MA. Just seems to be a lot of hubbub about a non-issue. I'm open to being shown that you can't borrow firearms not living in NH myself.

Rome

You could borrow the guns but that doesn't help him transfer them, unless the dealer doesn't give a shit and is willing to just write the owners info in on the book, but good luck with that... not likely to happen. Maybe if something is cleared with the dealer ahead of time and you get photocopies of the sellers ID, etc. Of course there is still the legal issue of transporting the guns out of MA legally.

-Mike

 

[Cabinetman]

Well, not to make a big deal out of his allow me this scenario. Dad brings up his long guns when visiting Son in NH and they spend the day at the range. On the way home Dad says he's like to give the guns to his son. Son is ecstatic. Now, what to do. Does Dad have to drag his guns back to MASS and then find an FFL who will send them to NH? I don't think that's really what has to happen. Seems to me that an FFL in NH could sign them into his book and then transfer them to Son. Dad isn't giving his guns over state lines to his son without proper transfer.

Again, i'm not a rabble rouser. I'm just saying that that scenario has to be legal when you involve an FFL. If I, a non-resident (although i have my NR permit from NH) wanted to by a long gun from Trader John's there wouldn't be an issue.

Rome

 

[Len-2A Training]

Long guns can be transferred by an FFL in any state as long as state/local laws allow it, regardless of what state the new or old owner is from.

 

[NHAtHeart]

Long guns can be transferred by an FFL in any state as long as state/local laws allow it, regardless of what state the new or old owner is from.

This, Dad brings guns to NH, both Dad and Son go to an FFL and pay a transfer fee, fill out a 4473 and do a BG check (for son).

Otherwise Dad could let Son borrow the gun(s) indefinitely, if no money changes hands it would not be a sale or a transfer, as far as everyone is concerned Dad still owns the guns but Son is using them.

Anyone know of a reason why option number 2 is not valid?

 

[Len-2A Training]

This, Dad brings guns to NH, both Dad and Son go to an FFL and pay a transfer fee, fill out a 4473 and do a BG check (for son).

Otherwise Dad could let Son borrow the gun(s) indefinitely, if no money changes hands it would not be a sale or a transfer, as far as everyone is concerned Dad still owns the guns but Son is using them.

Anyone know of a reason why option number 2 is not valid?

Option 2 is indeed valid.

NOTE: There is a Fed Law that states that a person may loan handguns across state lines ONLY for "sporting purposes", so to be safe, no CCW of loaned (across state lines) handguns otherwise it's GTG.

 

[Tiktock]

This, Dad brings guns to NH, both Dad and Son go to an FFL and pay a transfer fee, fill out a 4473 and do a BG check (for son).

Otherwise Dad could let Son borrow the gun(s) indefinitely, if no money changes hands it would not be a sale or a transfer, as far as everyone is concerned Dad still owns the guns but Son is using them.

Anyone know of a reason why option number 2 is not valid?

+1 My understanding is that federal law preventing cross state gun transfer between individuals includes an exemption for borrowing guns across state lines for sporting purposes. It doesnt seem to articulate how long that borrowing can last at all. SO long as the gun is transported TO nh legally, i'm curious what the issue would be here, too.

Obviously much later on this wouldnt help transfer ownership but that seems a bit simpler as part of an inheritance if the dad doesnt want to or cant make the drive.

 

[Cabinetman]

Sometimes we all make things harder than they have to be, especially when we, as law-abiding firearm owners, struggle to stay within the regs that can be pretty convoluted.

Rome

 

[KBCraig]

Otherwise Dad could let Son borrow the gun(s) indefinitely, if no money changes hands it would not be a sale or a transfer, as far as everyone is concerned Dad still owns the guns but Son is using them.

The word is "transfer", not "sell". Money changing hands is never mentioned in federal law, and it's highly unlikely that any federal judge would buy the notion that it "just a loan", and wasn't a transfer.

Odds of getting caught and having to trust a judge? Just about nil. But with the ease and low cost of doing a legal transfer at a NH FFL, why risk it?

 

[Len-2A Training]

The word is "transfer", not "sell". Money changing hands is never mentioned in federal law, and it's highly unlikely that any federal judge would buy the notion that it "just a loan", and wasn't a transfer.

Odds of getting caught and having to trust a judge? Just about nil. But with the ease and low cost of doing a legal transfer at a NH FFL, why risk it?

.

 

[KBCraig]

The other word is "giving", not "gifting".

 

[BobbyJ01754]

A good friend from MA put me on to this great forum. First time poster. I'm a long time NH resident and pistol permit holder. My Massachusetts aging father would like to gift his firearms to me. 3 hunting rifles one old revolver and an old .22 pistol. None were purchased after 1965 except for 1 shotgun, probably 20 years old. A few were through dealers a few through private purchases. I'm not selling any of them and I plan on eventually gifting them to my son. Here's my question: several of my NH friends (firearms enthusiast) are telling me that since they are relatively old (late 50’s to early 60’s) to just go down to MA get them, have Dad write up a bill of sale, and throw them in my safe, done deal. My initial thought was to drag him and his firearms up to a NH FFL and do a transfer, but these guys say I’m nuts. BTW, my father is not healthy and this whole excursion would be pretty stressful for him. I want to do the right thing, but also don’t want to go through an unnecessary chump move. Please feel free to PM me. Thanks for you help!

Set up a gun trust in your father's name, and have yourself listed as a beneficiary. This allows you equal ownership of the rifles, and bypasses probate in many cases once your father passes. Firearm storage requirements for a gun trust do not require them to be stored in the home state of the person who owns the gun trust, allowing them to be stored in your house in NH, just like they could be stored in MA.

 

[WesternRay]

OP hasn't been seen in 8 years...

 

[scottco]

OP hasn't been seen in 8 years...

Still in jail

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Set up a gun trust in your father's name, and have yourself listed as a beneficiary. This allows you equal ownership of the rifles, and bypasses probate in many cases once your father passes. Firearm storage requirements for a gun trust do not require them to be stored in the home state of the person who owns the gun trust, allowing them to be stored in your house in NH, just like they could be stored in MA.

Great First Post!

 

[greencobra]

OP hasn't been seen in 8 years...

jeezus, you haven't exactly been a busy boy here either in your 7 years. thank god for monthly give a ways i say.

 

[Mountain]

Still in jail

No, OP was a fed boi and retired from the ATF.

 

[tuna]