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GF to carry my registered pistol legal?
- Thread starter hillbillie84
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If she has the proper permit to carry the gun, she can carry it.
Guys feel free to jump in and correct me if I am wrong, but you can only do that if the gun is registered in the same state. Someone posted something a week ago about a law where you cannot borrow handguns from out of state if you live in MA. If someone is familiar with this law/reg., can you please provide a link for the information? I'm also curious if this applies to all firearms, or just handguns, as I am looking to borrow my FIL's shotgun and he is in CT.
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I was actually told the opposite in a thread I posted awhile back, regarding borrowing a gun from a Maine res. for a range trip. Everyone said "no problem", but then again, no one cited any MA GL's.
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As long at it's legal to be brought here (no post ban hicap mags if it's a pistol, not an AWB rifle / shotgun) and legal for you to possess it (meaning you have the right LTC / FID) I don't see why it would be an issue. I haven't seen any MGLs that say it must be a "MA gun" to borrow it. Of course IANAL and if I'm wrong someone who is will be along to correct me in 3....2....1....
(BTW, there's a "MA laws" section of this forum where you'd probably get a better response....)
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Yes, if you are both MA residents, and both properly licensed.
It's actually a federal law...
All firearms.
Link?
I think these excerpts are the ones that pertained to my original aforementioned thread, regarding range use only, not CCW or self-defense. It would appear that is IS legal: "except that this paragraph shall not apply to...(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;...receive any firearms unless such receipt is for lawful sporting purposes."
Here is a link to the thread I mentioned: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...legally-bring-someone-else-s-gun-to-the-range
Here is a link to the thread I mentioned: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...legally-bring-someone-else-s-gun-to-the-range
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Again IANAL, but I would think that MAYBE the "for lawful sporting purposes" would throw a bit of a wrench in the works if you're borrowing it specifically to carry it. Is concealed carry "sporting?" I don't know... Still, borrowing a shotgun to go trap shooting or a handgun to use in an IDPA competition should be fine. (Assuming that you follow the appropriate MA laws of course.)
The problem being that "lawful sporting purposes" is not defined. I would opine that personal protection is NOT covered under "lawful sporting purposes" IANAL and YMMV.
I would agree, and I think this (hunting, skeet, trap, competition, etc.) was probably the legislative intent behind this exemption.
Well, in that case, for the love of god don't let her carry a flashlight then...Then he may want to get her a terrorist hunting license to go with it![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Yup.
You're wrong. A loan is fine.
They usually don't have laws that allow stuff.
Eddie, is that for all guns, or are handguns excluded? That is what I saw on another thread, that handguns couldn't be loaned out of state.
They can be loaned for temporary lawful sporting purposes.
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FWIW I've never seen case law on the across state lines thing- WRT "sporting purposes. " I doubt it would ever be an issue, frankly, as long as the ownership of the property isn't changing hands. That would be a fun case for a fed to prosecute- to show that the possession of a gun was "unlawful" simply because the gun came from another state and it was used in self defense, but yet if the person had borrowed that gun in their state of residence, somehow that mysteriously makes it "ok" legally. That's a big time logic bomb.
As long as the individuals involved are properly licensed, there are no problems in letting someone borrow a handgun.
-Mike
As long as the individuals involved are properly licensed, there are no problems in letting someone borrow a handgun.
-Mike
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That answers my questions....thanks for taking the time Eddie and Mike
Independence Arms
Instructor
my father borrowed my sig p232 a while back, and liked it so much, he won't give it back. it is still registered in my name, and the firearms record bureau says its fine for him to carry as long as he's licensed. i won't transfer it over to him in hopes that i might get it back someday!!!
Ain't gonna happen brother! Buy yourself a new one.
I see a new P232 purchase in your future
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You've already figured it out yourself: What is recorded in Massachusetts is certain transfers of certain firearms. The Massachusetts system does not, and does not purport to, show who has title to the firearm at any point in time subsequent to the transfer. There's more than one prior thead that hashes this issue out at length.
Well, depending on how long you've owned guns and whether or not you moved into the state with some, they may not have info on those guns. Lots of guns are simply not in the CHSB system... bear in mind that "registration" is not compulsory in MA. (meaning, you need not be concerned with what really is or is not on the state's books. )
-Mike
And also, conversely, any firearm(s) you have previously owned, and subsequently sold, is/are still listed in the CHSB system, as there is no mechanism in place to remove them.
Here's one where it's discussed :
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/82347
Here's one where it's discussed :
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/82347
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I kind of figured that's what you were getting at. Technically you're 100% correct of course, but a convenient (for the Police) side effect of this "transfer notification" is a database somewhere that has a list of serial numbers that you are (or at least were at one time) associated with. So sure, we don't have registered pistols owned by people, instead we have registered people who own pistols. Six in one, half dozen in the other.
So the bottom line is if MA police recover a gun used in a crime they can look up the serial number in the CHSB database and see who legally owned it last. If that person happens to have been you, you better have a good explanation ready. And a good lawyer.
In theory the FA-10 is the mechanism to remove them, though I doubt they do a very good job of removing anything from the database. This is why I keep multiple copies of any FA-10 forms that have my name on them, especially ones that list a transfer away from me.
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They certainly can look up the entries in the CHSB. But what is in the CHSB system is not necessarily equal to what you own.
If you buy a new gun from a dealer the same thing is just a three, maybe four hop BATFE trace.... (Manuf > disti > FFL > you) so not sure what the difference is here. This "problem" you speak of also exists in any free state, unless you buy a gun used without passing papers, or you buy/inherit a gun that is so old that it's effectively off the books. Virtually every new gun made since 1968, has some records retained on it somewhere by the feds. I'm not justifying the MA system, just saying that you're overstating the "problem" by quite a bit. I don't like having my guns registered in any kind of a database, either... but it is what it is..... The CHSB system data quality is also very poor. (If you pay the $20 and request the printout of the guns you supposedly own, if you've been a gun owner for a long time you will laugh at the level of inaccuracy of the report. I've seen cases where guns that were recently bought from dealers didn't even show up in the report, probably because the dealer spelled your name wrong, or typoed your LTC number wrong, etc. (Although MIRCS tends to reduce this problem somewhat, it still exists with the paper forms).
Why would you need a lawyer? (Contrary to popular belief, most gun traces are not the spanish inquisition, not even in MA. ) Worst case scenario you would want to have information of where to send the investigative agency to next. (Unless it was yours and it was stolen, in which case you would want to show them the police report and the copy of the FA-10 indicating loss.) This is no different than it would be if BATFE traced the same gun. If LE wants to trace a gun badly enough, they'll still show up at your door... I guess that's what I'm getting at here.
-Mike
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