Getting weapons not on the roster back from bonded storage

[Chuck]

Hi,

I don't wont to get into gory details, but my weapons are currently in bonded storage. Now that I have my LTC back I'm trying to get them all back. Storage company is saying that as an FFL they can not transfer some weapons back to me because FFLs just can't sell them. I know that's the case with a number of weapons -- I can kiss my ARs (hence my sale thread) an AK goodbye thanks to Healey's recent changes to the law.

However, I have a number of pistols that are not on the list; but ALL were bought from an FFL in the first place. So my question is, how did that FFL sell it originally? I assumed it was because it was in the state before the iron curtain came down in Oct '98. But, how can I prove that? Just having my FA-10 from that purchase showing I bought it from an FLL and not privately isn't enough apparently. I don't see the EOPS going through old dusty boxes looking for FA-10s from earlier transactions of these pistols!

These are nothing exotic either: Colt 1911s, Browning HiPower, and CZ 75. While not exotic those 1911s were customized by Greg Derr or Mike LaRocca and I shoot them in competitions so really want them back.

thanks,
Chuck

 

[drgrant]

They sold it because they wanted to. lol. Not trying to obtuse but some dealers just didn't care. (thankfully)

If I was in your shoes the first order of business would be to try to get those guns to another FFL, one that is less of a prick. Bonded warehouses really only exist to rape.


-Mike

 

[jasons]

Bonded warehouses are super shady and will typically use any excuse real or imagined to screw you over. As such, they’ll use the strictest possible interpretation of the list as an excuse to keep your property. You might try asking Comm2A for some advice but I’m not sure there’s any real option. Welcome to Massachusetts.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Can you simply go back to the FFLs you bought them from initially?

 

[JRT]

Transfer the guns at issue to a friend or relative out of state, get them out of the bonded warehouse before its too late. Set about finding an FFL in MA who will allow you to transfer them back, they are out there. In the mean time, shoot your guns with your friend or relative and use them for competitions. Added bonus, you don't have to worry about the bonded warehouse selling your guns to Texass in a lot sale.

 

[DW357]

I wouldn't give many more details publicly and would contact comm2a to see if there are any options. @Knuckle Dragger @nstassel

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Maybe Len will chime in, but if they never left the state, they should be ok to be transferred back to you. Jack.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

This is exactly the kind of fear, doubt and uncertainty that the AG is trying to sow. They're more than happy to intimidate the FFL into doing their dirty work, but if challenged they won't back up the FFL.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Chuck - please do contact Comm2A, also let me know if I can help you rescue those guns.

 

[DW357]

Maybe Len will chime in, but if they never left the state, they should be ok to be transferred back to you. Jack.

That's what I was thinking but then again I have no experience with bonded warehouses...

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It's no different than leaving a gun off at a shop for cleaning or barrel torquing. The FFL must enter it into their bound book since it is overnight, but the customer is allowed to get the gun back after the smithing is done.

 

[Chuck]

It's no different than leaving a gun off at a shop for cleaning of barrel torquing. The FFL must enter it into their bound book since it is overnight, but the customer is allowed to get the gun back after the smithing is done.

Where can one find info on this? Any test cases out there? It appears few folks get guns back from bonded warehouse -- I know of none personally. Don't know who to ask nor does the attorney I asked.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Where can one find info on this? Any test cases out there? It appears few folks get guns back from bonded warehouse -- I know of none personally. Don't know who to ask nor does the attorney I asked.

On a couple of occasions I was able to "save" the guns for the owners. One time the guns were transferred from the BW to me and the other time I got them from the PD while they still had them. It can be done. One problem is that some PDs just want to get rid of the guns fast and not have to deal with them. Jack.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Where can one find info on this? Any test cases out there? It appears few folks get guns back from bonded warehouse -- I know of none personally. Don't know who to ask nor does the attorney I asked.

I'm not offering legal advice, just food for thought.

MGL 140/129d states title of the firearms changes only if the storage fees aren't paid for 90 days at which point the BW owns them and can dispose to recoup their extortion(storage etc) fees. Let's say your guns were kept in a PD evidence room the entire time, what would be the procedure for getting them back once legally allowed? They aren't doing 4473's and MIRCS transactions.

Get them out of the BW so the fees stop. You should be able to find an FFL by you to help, if not PM me.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I'm not offering legal advice, just food for thought.

MGL 140/129d states title of the firearms changes only if the storage fees aren't paid for 90 days at which point the BW owns them and can dispose to recoup their extortion(storage etc) fees. Let's say your guns were kept in a PD evidence room the entire time, what would be the procedure for getting them back once legally allowed? They aren't doing 4473's and MIRCS transactions.

Get them out of the BW so the fees stop. You should be able to find an FFL by you to help, if not PM me.

Good advice and good of you to offer. In my case, it was long ago and the BW let them go to me after the owner settled up with them. It was 15 guns and worth doing. However, one gun fell thru a crack somewhere between the PD and the BW. When the PD picked up the guns (RO) they left behind a receipt for the guns which included the one that went missing and was never seen or heard from again. Jack.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's no different than leaving a gun off at a shop for cleaning or barrel torquing. The FFL must enter it into their bound book since it is overnight, but the customer is allowed to get the gun back after the smithing is done.

Rob, I agree wrt gunsmithing/cleaning/repair. However, I am not at all certain that this would extend to a situation with a BW involved. I think it may take a lawsuit to adjudicate whether the "List" takes precedence over the person raped by the BW or not.

 

[jasonj84]

I'm not offering legal advice, just food for thought.

MGL 140/129d states title of the firearms changes only if the storage fees aren't paid for 90 days at which point the BW owns them and can dispose to recoup their extortion(storage etc) fees. Let's say your guns were kept in a PD evidence room the entire time, what would be the procedure for getting them back once legally allowed? They aren't doing 4473's and MIRCS transactions.

Get them out of the BW so the fees stop. You should be able to find an FFL by you to help, if not PM me.

If the PD had them, just show up with someone with a valid LTC and they will release them. Bonded warehouse is a money making scheme.

 

[Bonesinium]

Good advice and good of you to offer. In my case, it was long ago and the BW let them go to me after the owner settled up with them. It was 15 guns and worth doing. However, one gun fell thru a crack somewhere between the PD and the BW. When the PD picked up the guns (RO) they left behind a receipt for the guns which included the one that went missing and was never seen or heard from again. Jack.

Someone at the PD or bonded thefthouse stole it.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If the PD had them, just show up with someone with a valid LTC and they will release them. Bonded warehouse is a money making scheme.

I was talking specifically about OP's situation. But you're right, everyone should be ready for this type of situation just in case.

 

[jasonj84]

Someone at the PD or bonded thefthouse stole it.

Wasn’t Lowell PD. Would have been more than 1

 

[one-eyed Jack]

If the PD had them, just show up with someone with a valid LTC and they will release them. Bonded warehouse is a money making scheme.

Some PDs are easier to deal with than others. If your "designated" person shows up with a letter from you and notarized things will go easier. Jack.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Some PDs are easier to deal with than others. If your "designated" person shows up with a letter from you and notarized things will go easier. Jack.

This. If you can act quickly. BTDT. Not that this helps the OP.

I hope that you get your property back.

Bob

 

[Irish65]

Sorry for another not directly helpful, but still relevant post. When my wife's (now dead) ex was threatening to make false child sex abuse allegations against me, I turned to a prominent MA firearms attorney for help.... He drafted a letter still posted on and inside my safe that essentially says "Attention ___ PD, if you are seizing Tom's guns, deliver them to XXX Gun Shop, per MA GL 1234".... You can legally predetermine where your guns will go if s#$% hits the fan. The gun shop (God bless them) had already agreed to take them.

Also, that firearms attorney also hooked my wife and I up with great lawyers who helped us fight off her ex.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If the PD had them, just show up with someone with a valid LTC and they will release them.

This is only true if the confiscation was due to something other than a 209A restraining order (ie, the most common reason for bonded warehouse involvement). It's a great solution to get non-evidence guns in cases where someone has been charged with a misdafelony or other DQ offense and thus ineligible to possess the guns.

If it is a 209A confiscation, it can be released ONLY to a MA licensed firearms dealer. Some people say "FFL", but FFLs without MA dealer licenses (there are some) do not qualify.

I have a letter in my safe instructing the PD to turn the guns over to a local dealer with whom I have made contingency plans. This dealer is next door to the police station but is not a BW so he cannot take guns from the PD without consent by the owner. His storage rate is 1/3 that of the Village Vault, and he does not play games like "no partial redemption", "no consignment sales - sell only to me at what I say is the wholesale value", etc. Plus, he will get to the PD quickly and is a highly ethical individual. The shop is B&K, and he will travel to other PDs to provide this service at more reasonable prices and terms than BWs. He is one of "us", not "them".

 

[milktree]

I have a letter in my safe instructing the PD to turn the guns over to a local dealer with whom I have made contingency plans. This dealer is next door to the police station but is not a BW so he cannot take guns from the PD without consent by the owner. His storage rate is 1/3 that of the Village Vault, and he does not play games like "no partial redemption", "no consignment sales - sell only to me at what I say is the wholesale value", etc. Plus, he will get to the PD quickly and is a highly ethical individual. The shop is B&K, and he will travel to other PDs to provide this service at more reasonable prices and terms than BWs. He is one of "us", not "them".

Hey Rob,

I have this memory that you posted a sample note/letter for the safe or some suggestions of the wording, but I can't find anything like that now. (am I search-impared?)

Would you be willing to post a redacted version of the relevant bits of your note? I can imagine there's some magic words that are necessary for the police to take the request seriously.

(plus some other "best practices" like taking a photo of the note in the safe so they can't claim it wasn't there)

 

[dcmdon]

They sold it because they wanted to. lol. Not trying to obtuse but some dealers just didn't care. (thankfully)

If I was in your shoes the first order of business would be to try to get those guns to another FFL, one that is less of a prick. Bonded warehouses really only exist to rape.


-Mike

+100^100. Get them to a local friendly FFL ASAP

 

[dcmdon]

In the future, if you know you are going to lose your LTC, bring the guns to yoru local friendly FFL BEFORE the cops come to your house. Then YOU get to choose where they live while you are working on getting your "rights" restored.

You could also move them out of state and be in compliance with the law provided the reason you are losing your LtC isn't also a reason that makes you a Prohibited Person.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

All PDs don't do things the same way. I know of a case where a guy was arrested and his handgun taken by his PD. When his case was dismissed they just called him to come and pick up his gun which they just kept at the station. Also, they never took his LTC. Jack.

 

[MuzzleDiscipline]

.......
You could also move them out of state and be in compliance with the law provided the reason you are losing your LtC isn't also a reason that makes you a Prohibited Person.

I don't believe this is accurate. You must at confiscation declare all firearms even the out of state ones. I will search for the citation but LenS will likely jump in before I get it.

If I am not mistaken it is a felony to fail to declare out of state firearms.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't believe this is accurate. You must at confiscation declare all firearms even the out of state ones. I will search for the citation but LenS will likely jump in before I get it.

If I am not mistaken it is a felony to fail to declare out of state firearms.

You are correct. I sent you the citations as a response to your Email to me. Feel free to post it here.